racism

[shoruke]

Hi guys. If there had been a better forum to post this in, I would have... but there's not so I put it here in philospophy.

This is actually for english class. My teacher gave me a "creative project" assignment, and I chose to do a forum post. The topic I have to do it on is racism.

Personally, I don't see why anyone would be a racist. To some extent, even the original slave traders knew that the Africans were still people. This is evident in the phrase "black people", is it not? Also, there's nothing really to be gained from racism. It is worth noting that America, as well as the 15th century European powers who tried to colonize Africa, do not currently own Africa. They didn't even get much farther than having colonies in Africa at any point, did they?

One of my pet peeves is bad justification. Killing someone for revenge is an example of bad justification. "Because I said so" is a bad justification (that means you, parents). And the way I heard it, the early colonists needed slaves, and the Indigenous people weren't strong enough, so they brought Africans over as slaves instead. This is really bad justification. And isn't that what led to all the racism?

It's been scientifically proved that black people, white people, asians and whatever type of ___ people you can think of, are all human. We all belong to the same genus and species. We can donate blood to each other, reproduce with each other, and interact with each other peacefully. The difference (genetically) between white people and people with darker skin is something like 1% of your entire genetic makeup. Let's face it, we're all people.

But what about the word, "nigger"? Or even "nigga" (which is roughly equal to saying brother loosely)? Apparently, I'm not allowed to say either one because I'm white. And it's all due the history of the word. How is this fair? I didn't do anything to deserve having a word cut from my vocabulary. I wouldn't use nigger, but if I were to use the word nigga the way a black person would use it, why is that not fine? Black people say they substitute the "a" onto the word to give it a different meaning and take away its power. Well, I'm all for that, but I can't help because I'm white. Isn't this counter-intuitive? Not allowing me to say nigga simply reinfores the power of the word. If we can't accept that I mean the same by it as black people do, then that means the BLACK PEOPLE aren't ready to accept ME as equal. Damn racists.

[MommaSquid]

I generally dislike people for what they say and do rather than the color of their skin.  

Having said that, I will also point out that there are cultural differences between people and sometimes those differences are easily assessed by color.  Sometimes.

Shoruke, why do you want to use the word "nigger"?

[Bella]

People categorize things as a way to save mental energy. You'd be exhausted if you thought about and analyzed everything seperately. It also helped with survival way back when. Humans are also placed in categories (race, gender, SES, hair color, etc.). Associations are made with these categories. This is where racism stems from.

Yes, we are all people. There is no race "gene".

As for the word "nigger". I just don't think it's appropriate no matter what your skin color. IMO, it's the most common way for a hiphop artist to ruin an otherwise good song. As for the fairness of it because of the word's history... well, the word wouldn't exist if it weren't for the history... so I guess it all evens out.   :wink:

Honestly, everyone is different. I've heard white people AND black people say it in both "positive" and "negative" context. Some people find it more offensive than others.

[Whitney]

People tend to fear and/or dislike those who are different especially when they do not understand why those people are different.  In every case of slavery I am familiar with, it is a situation of enslaving someone who is different from the slave owner...whether the difference be social class, race, or religion.  I think scientific study has played a huge role in why racism is now considered something bad rather than an acceptable norm.

I'm not sure who told you the indigenous people were not strong enough to be slaves...they did manage to survive on their own without help for long before the colonies were settled, longer than the USA has existed.  I would guess the reason for choosing Africa as a place to grab slaves might have been partially due to the settlers giving the native americans small pox...maybe Africans were already more immune to it.

 Anyway, racism, or at least the enslavement of those from other cultures, has it's roots all the way back to the Egyptian times and probably before.  
Even the Bible (the supposed "good book") favorably speaks of owning slaves (of conquered tribes) and does so in a way that mirrors the racism found in the American ownership of black slaves.

As for hate filled racial terms...rather than taking away their power it would make much more sense to just quit using them.  But, as with all words they have a meaning in a given context.  With racial hate terms that context can have a lot to do with the color of your skin.  If some black people want to say "nigga" that's their thing...but even then that's a cultural choice and is normally used in the context of a close group of friends (even with those of a different race in some cases) rather than a general greeting to anyone that just happens to be black.


To get a better idea of how racism developed.  If you are walking down the street and a few blocks down you see someone who's skin is purple.  You have never seen someone with purple skin before and prejudge that person as scary and possibly harmful.  You immediately turn to run the other way and call the cops on your phone.

Another example, you live in a very remote part of the world in a small village, tribe A, filled only with white people.  A neighboring tribe, tribe B, is filled only with black people and is always hostile towards your village.  Your association of black people with hostility allows you to rationalize racism and you would likely put up strong defenses against any black person who may come to visit from thousands of miles away, tribe c, just as you would anyone who visited you from tribe B.  Basically, racism only makes sense where ignorance of key facts about the world and humanity are unknown....after the facts are provided it's a matter of killing out the tradition of racism.

[Mister Joy]

Personally, I don't see why anyone would be a racist. To some extent, even the original slave traders knew that the Africans were still people. This is evident in the phrase "black people", is it not? Also, there's nothing really to be gained from racism. It is worth noting that America, as well as the 15th century European powers who tried to colonize Africa, do not currently own Africa. They didn't even get much farther than having colonies in Africa at any point, did they?

Actually, if you 'colonise' a country that pretty much means you own it. There is no 'further' to go, so to speak. Since the French, the Ottomans, the British & the Germans had colonised pretty much all of Africa between them, it was as good as 'owned'.

At any rate, the concept of 'racism' has adopted far too broad a meaning as far as I'm concerned. For example, it isn't remotely historically inaccurate for me to say this:

Before imperial powers took over Africa, they were all killing and enslaving one another in small isolated tribes. We gave them civilisation. In fact said imperial forces didn't actually do much 'enslaving'; more buying slaves from African tribes who had just bested others. If it wasn't for those colonies, slavery would still be going on in Africa.

It's the truth. However it's frowned upon for us to state certain truths. It's politically incorrect. Yet it doesn't demonstrate any emotion (not even hatred), nor does it mention race.

Another thing: we are all descended from slaves - we have just as much right to moan and gripe about it as anyone else - & the world would not be as prosperous and cushy as it is today were it not for that reality. America, for example, would be nothing if we hadn't held its leash for a while (ie. build it). It would be living in the dark ages with no industry (we did that), no modern science (heck, we did that too), no vestige of modern culture (well we pretty much did that) and the list goes on. Similarly, if the Roman empire hadn't conquered Europe, think how far behind we Brits and Europeans in general would be, and you, in turn, would be also? America may not even have been discovered yet for all we know! And you can bet that atheism would be out of the picture. As would Christianity, come to that.

It's all far too complicated to pick out one group (eg. the Africans) and say "oh they were wronged in history and we need to make up for it" because frankly their ancestors might have been wronged but they're reaping the spoils of that just as much as we are (&, as you say, Shoruke, we didn't do anything to them!)

I think whirling it all up and making a huge ridiculous drama out of it is just media spin and stupidity. It's something that's only going to make it worse. People don't like being made to feel guilty about things they never did, to hate their own race, nationality and otherwise for no reason. It's no surprise that you get skin head gangs popping up all over the place.

People categorize things as a way to save mental energy. You'd be exhausted if you thought about and analyzed everything seperately. It also helped with survival way back when. Humans are also placed in categories (race, gender, SES, hair color, etc.). Associations are made with these categories. This is where racism stems from.

agreed.

Yes, we are all people. There is no race "gene".

Yet the races are genetically different & not just in skin colour. Different paths of evolution do lead to different traits both characteristically and physically, however it's still ludicrous to generalise on a level such as this: "orientals are smarter than white people" or "black people are really stupid"

[Allhailtuna]

But what about the word, "nigger"? Or even "nigga" (which is roughly equal to saying brother loosely)? Apparently, I'm not allowed to say either one because I'm white. And it's all due the history of the word. How is this fair? I didn't do anything to deserve having a word cut from my vocabulary. I wouldn't use nigger, but if I were to use the word nigga the way a black person would use it, why is that not fine? Black people say they substitute the "a" onto the word to give it a different meaning and take away its power. Well, I'm all for that, but I can't help because I'm white. Isn't this counter-intuitive? Not allowing me to say nigga simply reinfores the power of the word. If we can't accept that I mean the same by it as black people do, then that means the BLACK PEOPLE aren't ready to accept ME as equal. Damn racists.

No, mate, it has nothing to do with the black people at all.It has to do with political correctness.
Which is a messed up concept. But oh well, I still don't use the word 'nigger'. No, seriously, what's the point? It has a derogatory sound, and is quite pointless. I don't mind saying 'Black', since... Well... All Americans are African Americans (We came out of Africa.)
Some were just African more recent.

[Steve Reason]

I'm not a racist, just a misanthrope.  

[Allhailtuna]

Fundamentalists have that effect on you.

But yeah, if I called a retard (As in someone with mental retardation, not just the common usage, 'idiot') 'stupid', and someone told me to leave, or that I was being rude, is it because the retards were intolerant of me?

[donkeyhoty]

Slavery is, generally, more about power than race.  It just so happens that the most well known, and most likely the most numerous, slave-owning period had a racial justification behind it.

The ancient Romans didn't care what race someone was, if they conquered a new territory, they took slaves.  If a person went too far into debt, they became a slave; race didn't really play a part, money and power did(first you get the money, then you get the power...).

In manorial/feudal times the workers of the land(serfs) were essentially slaves to their lords.  It was the same with many agrarian societies.

Throughout history those in a position of power, whether a country or a group of people, have exploited those beneath them.  Sometimes this manifests itself in chattel slavery and sometimes in wage slavery.

In summation, racism is just another way for people to assert their power, real or imagined, over other people.

[a_jaynepayne]

This might sound dumb but I think that there are all kinds of words that people use to describe themselves and others like them that aren't okay for others to use, and it's like "I can talk bad about my family but you can't" kind of a thing.  I joke about being a redneck all the time but it can be insulting depending on how and when it's said.  I think that the N word has a very negative stigma attached to it whether you have used it negatively or not like the word atheist, if I were to say that to anyone in my family it would be all hell fire and brimestone for me, so anyway I just think if you understand that a certain word is generally hurtful or disrespectful it's just best not to use that word.  I just re-read that and it makes me sound like a wussy.  I think you should be able to speak how you want and be yourself but understand that certain things are just going to open the floodgates of anger and lot's of people will stop listening...they'll HEAR you but they won't be LISTENING.

[shoruke]

I went a couple days without replying, so that people had a chance to post...

I'd like to thank everyone for posting, and sharing history lessons and such.

It is true that slavery, in some cases, can be justified. It's true that if we hadn't had a slavery system in ancient Rome/Greece, then Aristotle, Hipocrates, Pythagorus, and several other great people wouldn't have had the time on their hands to educate people on how the world works. But that still doesn't justify racism, that only justifies slavery. (end vs. means?)

here's a hypothetical example. If I could talk to an ancient Roman, and ask him what kind of people he took on as slaves, and why he had slaves at all, he would say "We take those we conquer as slaves so that our aristocrats have more free time to do arts and science, and better our civilization." That wasn't racist.
If I could talk to an ancient American (funny term, but bear with me) and ask him what kind of people he took on as slaves, and why he had slaves at all, he would say "them nigggers had it comin'. Sides', I'm makin money off em and they don't take much feedin'." That's racist. And we know now that it was wrong.

As for the word nigger. It's not that I want to be allowed to insult black people with it, it's that I see their plight to take power away from the word, and I can't help at all, because they won't let me. Does this fact not attest to how little progress they've made to take power away from the word?

My method for removing power from "nigger" would be to support people like Dave Chappelle and Chris Rock (black comedians... lots of swearing and nigger-calling. Nothing takes power from a word like "When I go to a money machine tonight, I'm not lookin' over my back for the media! I'm lookin' fo' NIGGAS!") I guess it's a concept of attrition.
One example: When a kid (roughly 5 yrs. old) swears, his mother will get mad at him/her, and might even ground them. However, the child, influenced by his peers at school, will slowly become more and more vulgar in is mannerisms and speech. By the time he's my age (16), he can say "fuck" around his house and his mother will barely bat an eyelash.
So here's the parallel: the child is me, the mother is black people who hate the word nigger, and schoolmates are the rest of the general populace. Currently, if I use the word nigger, I'm liable to suffer repercussions. But over time, I, along with the people around me, will use increasingly vulgar language, until it enters regular conversation because nobody cares anymore. The black people themselves might not choose to use the word, but they'll see that I don't mean to use it with it's full power of insultingness.

Here's hoping the forum doesn't censor my swearing so that everyone can tell what I said, wish me luck for a good mark when I direct my english teacher to this site. Night everyone!

[tigerlily46514]

). And the way I heard it, the early colonists needed slaves, and the Indigenous people weren't strong enough

I haven't even read the previous posts yet, but i have to point out that native americans were quite athletic and fit, prior to the arrival of england's germs,  BUT they had support network at the time, they knew the land, and could escape into it.  the blacks did not.  Huge disadvantage.

It's been scientifically proved that black people, white people, asians and whatever type of ___ people you can think of, are all human

duh.  sorry, but DUH.

. The difference (genetically) between white people and people with darker skin is something like 1% of your entire genetic makeup

NO, it is a chomosome that decides your skin color, just like some white people are way whiter than others....  The genetic difference between you and a monkey is 2% of your DNA.....

that means the BLACK PEOPLE aren't ready to accept ME as equal. Damn racists

ON your quest to free yourself of racism, be careful not to lump people.   the root of racism is ignorance, and fear.

instead. This is really bad justification. And isn't that what led to all the racism?

Is there any GOOD justification for slavery????   Slavery is the result of racism, not the cause of it.

The

Before imperial powers took over Africa, they were all killing and enslaving one another in small isolated tribes. We gave them civilisation

Damn, i just spit my drink on my keyboard.  I can't believe you believe that.  There were many civilizations in Africa prior to the raping their country, elegant ones at that.   YOu are lumping all African societies together there, my friend.  Africa is the birthplace of all humanity,  the birthplace OF civilization, it is your ancestoral home, too.
Sure, there were also wars, america has had many wars of its own in country.

 

. In fact said imperial forces didn't actually do much 'enslaving'; more buying slaves from African tribes who had just bested others. If it wasn't for those colonies, slavery would still be going on in Africa

WHAT!?  It was definately slavery! ( the holocaust happened too btw)  Sure, other Africans did sell out their brothers there, but that is STILL SLAVERY.  The ones sold were free men women and children, who had been captured, not slaves. How nice you could foresee and predict what would be going on in 200 years later....

lity. America, for example, would be nothing if we hadn't held its leash for a while

Digusting choice of words.  We could have joined together and did our own work.  Many other countries ahve succeeded that way.  Shoruke, get down here, HERE is some of what you call "bad justification" right here, buddy.  The whole next paragraph is givng me a headache.  I hardly even know where to stab it, it has so many uninfomed remarks back  to back....

. As would Christianity, come to that

BTW-Christians used their religion as "bad justification" for slavery, you know this right?  We were 'converting " the slaves is why we told ourselves it was okay to ruin them.  And we did so ruin them, tortured them, ripped families apart...their family culture is still recovering from centuries of this horror inflicted upon them.  

It's all far too complicated to pick out one group (eg. the Africans) and say "oh they were wronged in history and we need to make up for it" because frankly their ancestors might have been wronged but they're reaping the spoils of that just as much as we are (&, as you say, Shoruke, we didn't do anything to them

OMG!!!   Where do YOU live that balck people have an even playing field????!!!  Slavery didn't completely end de-facto, til the 30s and 40s, the blacks you see beside you in school had grandparents that got lynched, fairly legally, and couldn't even vote nor go into white restaurants and stores.  Try that idea on for even a minute.  But their grandkids should be all completely over it all, just walk it off after 200 years of having their families ripped up into pieces!  It DOES take many generations to undo the damge we have done.  
Blacks in this country so have a DIFFERENT ROAD to walk than YOU DO.  In subtle things and huge things--mortages, wages, opportunities--it IS NOT the same for you as them.  It is slowly slowly getting better, but it  is   a    L  O  N  G  way to go yet.

And yes, i do feel reparations are due, i can't believe affirmative action is over, after 200 year s of absolute torture, then in one generation, okay, we are even?!!
Maybe you did not own a slave, but you are indeed benefitting, the blacks are not reaping these same rewards and i am stunned to hear you imagine this.  We can see an injustice that still needs work and want to participate in it's healing even if we did not own a slave ourselves.

think whirling it all up and making a huge ridiculous drama out of it is just media spin and stupidity. It's something that's only going to make it worse

No, acting like racism is not there will not make it go away.  That has been tried already, didn't work.  NO, racism, like prejudice against atheists, needs to be brought out into the open so the education can begin.  EDUCATION is the cure.  How can one learn about being a better person if one isn't aware there IS a problem here!!!!!???

reason. It's no surprise that you get skin head gangs popping up all over the place.

okay, now you are scaring me.  this might be a debate similar to talking with a fundy.....you say this--and yet, also wanna act like racism is pretty much over? and harmless?
THAT was one hecka of an ignorant remark..
.

Yet the races are genetically different & not just in skin colour

there are also skeletal differences, but our dna is identical, like white people who have red hair and white people who have black hair,it is one tiny corner of a chromosome.
......

But yeah, if I called a retard (As in someone with mental retardation, not just the common usage, 'idiot') 'stupid', and someone told me to leave, or that I was being rude, is it because the retards were intolerant of me?

Nicely done, allhail tuna.

I think you should be able to speak how you want and be yourself but understand that certain things are just going to open the floodgates of anger and lot's of people will stop listening...they'll HEAR you but they won't be LISTENING.

WELL PUT, ajayne!!  well, ignorant people might vey well perk right on up to the topic, though!!!!!  Start up a skin head thing...gross.

racism is born from ignorance...plain and simple.

oh shit, shoruke has another post.......i'll be backk.......

[tigerlily46514]

It is true that slavery, in some cases, can be justified

bull s#*t! I don't think you'd feel this way if YOU were being enslaved!!!!

power away from the word, and I can't help at all, because they won't let me. Does this fact not attest to how little progress they've made to take power away from the word?

Yes, you CAN help reduce rasism by being informed and intelligent in the words you speak to those around you, by putting in a good and informed word when a  bad card gets put on the table, even these small things may very well turn on a light for an ignorant person next to   you.
It might help someone discover their own ignorance...might not, but worth a try.  If you become a mortgage officer, a realtor, a teacher, a honorable cop or judge or politician, your opportunities to help keep things fair are even broader.

Focus perhaps on trying to set a good example in your word and deed, instead of if you feel "allowed" to use the N word.  There are better arenas and ways to use your wish to eradicate racsim than worrying over that cause.  There ARE better and bigger issues at hand in trying to help reduce racsim!!!!
But i'm so pleased to hear you are interested in helping reduce racism!!!!

Listen, Shoruke, the N word IS a powerful word, lotta blood on it, it always will be a powerful trigger.  Cunt is a powerful word to some.  You could yell cunt to your gramma all  day long..... she still won't like it.  Does that mean she is not "making progress" ?  Or does it mean you do not yet appreciate the effect words can carry?


Reread that gals post above all over again, comparing it to making fun of her family is ok if SHE does it, but not YOU.  maybe that'll help you understand, i thought it was a good remark.

 

slavery. (end vs. means?)

no!  HELL NO!!  C'mon--THINK!!!!!  You CAN'T REALLY mean that?  Lotsa people do their own work and still realize things, still become intelligent.  Are you kidding ????

here's a hypothetical example. If I could talk to an ancient Roman, and ask him what kind of people he took on as slaves, and why he had slaves at all, he would say "We take those we conquer as slaves so that our aristocrats have more free time to do arts and science, and better our civilization." That wasn't racist

For real--you would believe that??  NO, it's cuz he is a lazy ass, duh.  WHO gets to decide who gets to be an aristocrat? a birthright thing?  yeah, that'll probably work....definately they'd be smarter cuz they were pampered....(?)
  Artists and scientists can have their very own garden, and learn even more things while they garden (anyone who has EVER gardened can vouch, you realize a lotta things as your hands are in the earth..... and still have time to participate in the bettering of their civilization.  ONe does NOT have to be idle to develop intelligence.  mUch is to be learned while active.  YOur remark indicates an ignorance of things created by black amercians, including the lamp over your head and the cell phone up againsts your ear.
HOw exactly did you decide sitting on one's keister makes them  smarter?  Sitting makes us more valuable?  cool.

word, but they'll see that I don't mean to use it with it's full power of insultingness.

While you are yelling "cunt" at your gramma, do it real friendly like, so she can see you mean no harm, that even though usually that word means anger from a small mind coming her way, THIS time, she can see you are all smiling and all, and so then she won't mind.


 :roll:
Focus on helping to educate others who act stupid and are becoming desensitzed about the 'wrongness' of skn head gangs.  

word, but they'll see that I don't mean to use it with it's full power of insultingness.

Uh, good luck with that one. ha ha.
the whole idea you have sounds 'vulgar' to me.          Again, let go of this focus, if you really TRULY wanna help, you surely can make a difference.  do you really wanna help wipe out racism, or is just you wanna complete your imitation of a black guy by using the n word too ??  Far and away,  black men ARE the most imitated people in america.
 


RE: your everyone be vulgar plan--
HOw would debasing oursleves to our lowest common denominator improve society?

Good luck on your quest to help 'the pllight of black people'.  It IS a worthy cause.  There are better focuses to be had to unleash your energy onto tho, than trying to imitate rappers to 'desensitize them' to a white guy using the n word.  If your plan could work, it woulda already worked by now...like by 1930 even....leave the n word alone.  
CAN'T WE ALL JUST RESPECT EACH OTHER and quit picking at scabs over fairly recent wounds of long standing government subsidized rasism?

[tigerlily46514]

Another thing: we are all descended from slaves - we have just as much right to moan and gripe about it as anyone

NO, Mister, you are decended from AFRICANS, not slaves, and your path is very different from the grandchildren of slaves that you probably imitate in manner of dress, style, music and dance.   YOur right to complain about racism is completely valid, but you cannot for a moment pretend to be the decendent of someone who has survived that centuries long holocaust, nor a current victim of it.

reality. America, for example, would be nothing if we hadn't held its leash for a while (ie. build it). It would be living in the dark ages with no industry (we did that), no modern science (heck, we did that too), no vestige of modern culture (well we pretty much did that) and the list goes

When you say "we" do you mean "we" as Americans or "we" as white people?


Yes, americans did invent fountain pens, pencils, combs and hairbrushes, typewriters, lightbulbs,   (so it really woulda been dark without us!) almost everything in the post office from stamps to the machines that sort the mail,  amilboxes too, elevators that allow us to build skyscrapers, toliets, trolley cars, air conditioners, electric clothes dryers, the furnace, stethyscopes, traffic lights, refridgerators, air brakes, the electric lamp, many things of the NASA space rockets, space guided missiles, jazz, , fiberoptics, and the cell phone.  
YES, AMERICANS INVENTED THESE THINGS.  BLACK AMERICANS.  

ONe fo the main fathers of the internet, without whose inventions the internet never woulda happened is african.    guess us white people are so lucky we 'held the leash and built up our country' huh....

[ReflectingNarcissist]

If I may, I would like to reply to some of your statements, tigerlily46514.

NO, it is a chomosome that decides your skin color, just like some white people are way whiter than others....  The genetic difference between you and a monkey is 2% of your DNA.....

Perhaps I'm reading what you said wrong, but I'm pretty sure that melanin pigment plays the predominant role. Chromosomes, I would think, would only play a factor in genes being passed to offspring.

ON your quest to free yourself of racism, be careful not to lump people.   the root of racism is ignorance, and fear.

I believe he was using satire.

Is there any GOOD justification for slavery????   Slavery is the result of racism, not the cause of it.

Slavery based on race is the result of racism, which is a bad justification.

I certainly believe slavery can be justified. Just not based on usual orthodox reasons, such as social class, monetary variation, and least of all race. That's just me though.

Damn, i just spit my drink on my keyboard.  I can't believe you believe that.  There were many civilizations in Africa prior to the raping their country, elegant ones at that.   YOu are lumping all African societies together there, my friend.  Africa is the birthplace of all humanity,  the birthplace OF civilization, it is your ancestoral home, too.
Sure, there were also wars, america has had many wars of its own in country.

Africa has always been a warring place. "Elegance" is a very subjective thing, anyway. Many early civilizations could be considered "elegant". They were still hostile.

WHAT!?  It was definately slavery! ( the holocaust happened too btw)  Sure, other Africans did sell out their brothers there, but that is STILL SLAVERY.  The ones sold were free men women and children, who had been captured, not slaves.

Freedom is in the eye of the beholder. How do you figure they were free people? Slavery is an abstraction, and the periphery of "slaves" and "men, women, and children who had been captured" is quite thin.

Digusting choice of words.  We could have joined together and did our own work.  Many other countries ahve succeeded that way.

I'm no historian. but I highly disagree with that logic. Starting a civilization from scratch isn't the easiest thing to do. Particularly one that would of been in isolation from the rest of the world, not to mention the rather late start America had to develop. We could of joined together to do our own work. We'd be far behind in terms of development, but yes, we could of done that.

OMG!!!   Where do YOU live that balck people have an even playing field????!!!  Slavery didn't completely end de-facto, til the 30s and 40s, the blacks you see beside you in school had grandparents that got lynched, fairly legally, and couldn't even vote nor go into white restaurants and stores.  Try that idea on for even a minute.  But their grandkids should be all completely over it all, just walk it off after 200 years of having their families ripped up into pieces!  It DOES take many generations to undo the damge we have done.  
Blacks in this country so have a DIFFERENT ROAD to walk than YOU DO.  In subtle things and huge things--mortages, wages, opportunities--it IS NOT the same for you as them.  It is slowly slowly getting better, but it  is   a    L  O  N  G  way to go yet.

And yes, i do feel reparations are due, i can't believe affirmative action is over, after 200 year s of absolute torture, then in one generation, okay, we are even?!!
Maybe you did not own a slave, but you are indeed benefitting, the blacks are not reaping these same rewards and i am stunned to hear you imagine this.  We can see an injustice that still needs work and want to participate in it's healing even if we did not own a slave ourselves.

That's lacking justification everywhere, and it's a really despondent way of viewing things. Where are you getting those facts?

I don't know if I would recommend using it as a source to choose if you support it or don't, but I suggest you read the stuff here:http://www.acluprocon.org/bin/procon/procon.cgi?database=5-H-Sub-1Q.db&command=viewone&op=t&id=2&rnd=412.26809670492617

I would use a hyperlink, but I'm not yet certain how to make the format on this particular forum.

No, acting like racism is not there will not make it go away.  That has been tried already, didn't work.  NO, racism, like prejudice against atheists, needs to be brought out into the open so the education can begin.  EDUCATION is the cure.  How can one learn about being a better person if one isn't aware there IS a problem here!!!!!???

Honestly, I don't understand your logic. People know about racism. It's a very prolific topic. I've never understood people who seek to "raise awareness" on huge, in your face issues like this or global warming or any other multitude of reasons. Education isn't a cure. Education is a treatment course. Or, at the very least, a painkiller.

Also, what are you refering to when you said it has already been tried?

okay, now you are scaring me.  this might be a debate similar to talking with a fundy.....you say this--and yet, also wanna act like racism is pretty much over? and harmless?
THAT was one hecka of an ignorant remark..
.

Again, I believe that was meant to be taken with a pinch of salt.