For the love of Christ

[fester30]

Spot on. The serpent was originally the guardian of the Tree of Life, and not Satan.

So what was it doing hanging around an apple tree then? and with earth being so big why did god put the apple tree in the garden of eden along with Adam and Eve?

Also, how did Adam and Eve learn a language?

If they disobeyed god does that mean that they are bad or simply that god didn't have very good parenting skills?

I prefer to use naughty corner with my child rather than casting her out of my special garden, never speaking to her again, and ensuring she and all her female offspring for all generations to come endure pain at child birth. But that's just me, I am less than perfect after all.

It wasn't an apple tree, it was a fruit tree.  The Bible doesn't specify the type of fruit.  God didn't say be appleful and multiply, he said be fruitful and multiply.  Why do people turn the fruit tree into the apple tree but not the other thing?  Sheesh damn atheists not reading the Bible!  Of course, being a fictional tree, I suppose we can also fictionize the type of fruit (I just made up the word fictionize).

Adam and Eve were created by God.  Apparently God taught them language. 

Yes, God had terrible creator skills with his new creations.  Perhaps he shouldn't have created the serpent.

God didn't stop speaking to Adam and Eve, just cast them from the Garden and guarded the Garden with a sword of light (I think) to keep them from coming back.  And yes, you are not perfect, don't you forget it.  You can not know the complexity of God's ways.  His ways are above us.  Shame on you for trying.  I would rather you fictionize the sex the Bible doesn't mention that Jesus had, because as a Jewish man, you know he never got horny.

[PapistItalian16]

A lot of the questions being asked here are a bit overwhelming. I can try and supply an answer here, but bear with me.

This topic interests me because I've had to deal with people who, after having done bad things, place the blame on a third party, the most convenient being satan.

So why can satan affect free will and god can't? Has satan found something in which his power is greater than that of god?

It just looks like an awfully convenient argument for the immoral to me...

Have fun?

Because God, like a just ruler, gives his people the right to choose the path of "right or wrong". Satan wants everyone to do wrong and doesnt give people the chance to decide, but he is not powerful enough to control maultiple amounts of people at the same time. Only God, with the use of the Holy Spirit can do that. And remember God created Satan, so Satan is not more powerful than God.

And yes, it is and "awefully convinient" arguement for the immoral. And thats very unfortunate.

"If God had wanted a perfect Church, he would have made it populated by His angels, and if He had wanted perfect Church leaders, He would have put the Archangels in charge."

Satan is crucial to god's plan. Without Satan the story of the apple in Eden wouldn't have happened, there would be no free will, no original sin, god's plan of earth wouldn't have worked. The two character's of god and Satan go hand in hand towards the same outcome.
If you were to try and rewrite the bible without satan you would find a lot of the key stories wouldn't work.

How do you know what God's plan is?

Spot on. The serpent was originally the guardian of the Tree of Life, and not Satan.

So what was it doing hanging around an apple tree then? and with earth being so big why did god put the apple tree in the garden of eden along with Adam and Eve?

Also, how did Adam and Eve learn a language?

If they disobeyed god does that mean that they are bad or simply that god didn't have very good parenting skills?

I prefer to use naughty corner with my child rather than casting her out of my special garden, never speaking to her again, and ensuring she and all her female offspring for all generations to come endure pain at child birth. But that's just me, I am less than perfect after all.

...shouldn't be questioned quite so literally.

What he said.

And my reenactment was very fun, I plan on attending another one this weekend. I'm  pumped.

[Stevil]

How do you know what God's plan is?

I made it up, just like everyone else does. But it does seem that without the bad stuff, without the temptation away from god, then there wouldn't be much point to the bible, free will, sin, judgment...

...shouldn't be questioned quite so literally.

What he said.

When you stop taking things literal then you need to interprete, when you interprete you end up making stuff up and your version becomes different to others versions. Also there doesn't seem to be aa key on which bits are literal and which bits are not. Plus, it is much more fun to take it literal, nonsense can be a lot of fun.

And my reenactment was very fun, I plan on attending another one this weekend. I'm  pumped.

I saw your photo with your getup on Phatmass, looks interesting.

[The Magic Pudding]

"If God had wanted a perfect Church, he would have made it populated by His angels, and if He had wanted perfect Church leaders, He would have put the Archangels in charge."

Wasn't Satan an angel?
Are the other angels really the embodiment of virtue?
There is that unfortunate story of Sodom, I wonder if that angel dressed provocatively.  Did they really search for ten righteous people, or did that have to be ten virtuous men?  The three year old children, I'm sure they were all evil.  
If I hear of hear of soldiers calling for an air strike to destroy a town because there's a bunch of guys with guns in the street, well Angel is not the first word that springs to my mind.

[Sweetdeath]

Yes, Lucifer (meaning:bringer of light) was God's most beautiful angel. It's my fav myth of angelogy.

Mainly because Japanese culture is obsessed with angel myths, so beautiful Lucifer has been featured in many Japanese comics.

[PapistItalian16]

How do you know what God's plan is?

I made it up, just like everyone else does. But it does seem that without the bad stuff, without the temptation away from god, then there wouldn't be much point to the bible, free will, sin, judgment...

Good point.

...shouldn't be questioned quite so literally.

What he said.

When you stop taking things literal then you need to interprete, when you interprete you end up making stuff up and your version becomes different to others versions. Also there doesn't seem to be aa key on which bits are literal and which bits are not. Plus, it is much more fun to take it literal, nonsense can be a lot of fun.

"I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary ingredient in living, It's a way of looking at life through the wrong end of a telescope. Which is what I do, And that enables you to laugh at life's realities." -- Dr. Seuss.

hahahahaha

And my reenactment was very fun, I plan on attending another one this weekend. I'm  pumped.

I saw your photo with your getup on Phatmass, looks interesting.

It is very interesting.

[Gawen]

Love, peace, tolerance, compassion, education, these are the things that Jesus Christ stood for.

These are the principles Jesus taught:
•   Abandon all your Earthly ambitions.
•   Forsake your Earthly family and give your loyalty to God and your fellow believers. 
•   Sell everything you own and use the money to do good works. 
•   Avoid receiving any Earthly reward for your good works. 
•   Follow the Mosaic Law, both the letter and the spirit of it. 
•   Abstain from all sin, inside and out;
•   Abstain from covetousness
•   Abstain from anger
•   Abstain from lust.
•   Abstain from adultery. 
•   Do WHATEVER YOU NEED TO DO to abstain from lust. 
•   Practice strict nonviolent pacifism.
•   Do not resist evil.
•   Do not strike back.
•   Do good to those who hate you. 
•   Practice mercy and forgiveness and peacemaking.
•   Do not judge others; Judgment Day will come soon enough. 
•   Seek to purify your own character, strive to "be perfect, even as your father in Heaven is perfect."
•   Over-fulfill the Law seeking to follow the spirit of it as well as the letter.
•   Kill those that do not believe.
•   Abstain from swearing false oaths.

But, none of the above makes much sense when one considers:

"But why, I did what I was supposed to. I accepted Jesus as my lord and savior! I went to church every Sunday; I prayed and asked forgiveness for my sins. What did I do wrong?"

Anderson didn't do anything wrong. Anderson is one tiny piece of God's preordained plan.
Ephesians 1:3-6 [NIV]: "Praise be to [God], who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will— to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves."

Ephesians 2:10 [NIV]: "For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do."

One can only enter heaven if you are blameless (without sin) and to do that you need Jesus. And you have Jesus if God has chosen you as one who is blessed with Jesus. Those who are chosen are automatically destined to 'do good works' which 'God prepared in advance for them to do. People don't choose to do good, and be accepted into Heaven, or that people choose to do good and come to accept Jesus. The Bible clearly states that God makes specific people do specific 'good works'.

Romans 8:28-30 [NIV]: "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified."

[Twentythree]

After reading this I wonder if I couldn't make a hot topic out of how many feathers there are on a Pegasus wings, or how long exactly Andromeda was chained to the rocks before Perseus came to the rescue. Arguing not only the content but the validity of myths with absolutely no truth content is a waste beyond whatever entertainment value can be gleaned from them. Just as previous posters have said, nonsense can be "fun" that is about the extent of it. No one really knows anything about what Jesus stood for, or if Jesus really even existed as it was written in the bible. No matter how many times you read the words it will never ever turn them into facts.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_myth_theory

[Sweetdeath]

@Gawen: (cool name btw)
I always find it ridiculous how the bible preached peace and violence at the same time.

Supposedly the people in ancient Rome thrown to the lions were true christian believers. How nice it must of been to be torn apart painfully by lions whilst thinking of your lord and saviour.

[fester30]

@Gawen: (cool name btw)
I always find it ridiculous how the bible preached peace and violence at the same time.

Supposedly the people in ancient Rome thrown to the lions were true christian believers. How nice it must of been to be torn apart painfully by lions whilst thinking of your lord and saviour.

In Bible classes, some churches teach kids about martyrs.  In mine, the teacher told us about the importance of always standing up for Jesus, even if it cost us our lives.

[Sweetdeath]

@fester: (you're using the icon xDD)
Wow... What a horrible thing to teach someone.

[Too Few Lions]

@Gawen: (cool name btw)
I always find it ridiculous how the bible preached peace and violence at the same time.

Supposedly the people in ancient Rome thrown to the lions were true christian believers. How nice it must of been to be torn apart painfully by lions whilst thinking of your lord and saviour.

In Bible classes, some churches teach kids about martyrs.  In mine, the teacher told us about the importance of always standing up for Jesus, even if it cost us our lives.

Yeah, I've always found the idea of celebrating martyrdom to be pretty sick, but it's very much been at the heart of Christianity from the earliest days. The earliest mention of Christians by Roman sources portrayed them as religious fanatics who were quite happy to die for their faith, often in an attempt to emulate the story of their saviour. Church Fathers like Cyprian and Basil of Caesaria openly promoted martyrdom as a way of gaining entrance to heaven.

[Twentythree]

Church Fathers like Cyprian and Basil of Caesaria openly promoted martyrdom as a way of gaining entrance to heaven.

Sounds a lot like another group of religious extremists I know. The kind that like to drive planes into buildings.

[fester30]

@fester: (you're using the icon xDD)
Wow... What a horrible thing to teach someone.

I figure since it looks so much like me in real life, why not?

[Gawen]

@Gawen: (cool name btw)

Thanks!!

I always find it ridiculous how the bible preached peace and violence at the same time.

Yeah. It seems that the bible only teaches ambiguities and contradictions. And all that comes from an omniscient God.....whew!!

Supposedly the people in ancient Rome thrown to the lions were true christian believers. How nice it must of been to be torn apart painfully by lions whilst thinking of your lord and saviour.

It is still debatable that Xtians were thrown to lions for their faith. There are references that these people were public nuisances.