Religious Exclamations

[AnimatedDirt]

Is there any logical reasoning behind why smart people shouldn't use phrases that people who aren't as smart as them use?

In the context of invoking God to damn something, yes.  If you have no belief in God, why invoke Him to damn something.  What is the point of OMG if there is no God?  What logic is there in using the exclamation?  The logical reason is exactly the reason Whitney states as why she doesn't (or avoids) using these exclamations.

it doesn't make sense since I'm not trying to appeal to one

I'm speaking about this.

Seems like you're rehashing it here and I'm responding.

So is mine where I don't care what the exclamation is in the same way I don't care about religion. Logical position: I don't care about religion or language, so I don't care what I or other people use for exclamations.

No. Where did that question come from? How does not believing in any god or gods make my position any less logical?

Because you appeal to God when you use these exclamations.  It's not logical to appeal to something that doesn't exist.

[Davin]

Is there any logical reasoning behind why smart people shouldn't use phrases that people who aren't as smart as them use?

In the context of invoking God to damn something, yes.  If you have no belief in God, why invoke Him to damn something.

What is being invoked?

If I say "god damn it!" I'm not actuall invoking a god to damn something, any more than I'm invoking a shit to fuck or damn something when I say "shit, fuck, damn it!" To me they're equal statements of which I'm not appealing to shit or a god. So demonstrate what is being invoked, because as many times as I've "invoked" a god (or shit) to damn something, I've yet to see anything get damned.

What is the point of OMG if there is no God?  What logic is there in using the exclamation?  The logical reason is exactly the reason Whitney states as why she doesn't (or avoids) using these exclamations.

it doesn't make sense since I'm not trying to appeal to one

I'm speaking about this.

Seems like you're rehashing it here and I'm responding.

Yes I am, you just said you didn't know what I was talking about so I linked you the post that you ignored/missed.

So is mine where I don't care what the exclamation is in the same way I don't care about religion. Logical position: I don't care about religion or language, so I don't care what I or other people use for exclamations.

No. Where did that question come from? How does not believing in any god or gods make my position any less logical?

Because you appeal to God when you use these exclamations.  It's not logical to appeal to something that doesn't exist.

If I do use the word "god" when I use exclamations, I'm not appealing to it, it is just a word. Demosntrate how just saying the word "god" is appealing to your (and not Muslims, Jews, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, etc. god/s) god.

[AnimatedDirt]

If I say "god damn it!" I'm not actuall invoking a god to damn something,

You're not?  A simple look at the words proves you wrong and illogical.

any more than I'm invoking a shit to fuck or damn something when I say "shit, fuck, damn it!" To me they're equal statements of which I'm not appealing to shit or a god.

When you say, "Shit damn it" or "Fuck damn it", you're not invoking God.  You are correct.  When you say "Shit!" or "Fuck!", you're not invoking God.  you are correct.  However, when you exclaim, "God damn it!" or "god damn it!" you are invoking God or god and something to which you hold no belief exists.

So demonstrate what is being invoked, because as many times as I've "invoked" a god (or shit) to damn something, I've yet to see anything get damned.

This is hardly the point.  You don't say, "Unicorn damn it!" and you've never seen any unicorns damn anything either.  So why God?  Where's the logic?

Seems like you're rehashing it here and I'm responding.

Yes I am, you just said you didn't know what I was talking about so I linked you the post that you ignored/missed.

Like I said, seems like your rehashing/revisiting these points here and I am responding now.  (sigh)

If I do use the word "god" when I use exclamations, I'm not appealing to it, it is just a word.

Again, see the beginning of this post.

Demosntrate how just saying the word "god" is appealing to your (and not Muslims, Jews, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, etc. god/s) god.

While I think it does specifically invoke the power of my God, the point is you don't believe in God or gods.  So why invoke ANY?  Where's the logic in this when *you have been able to thwart the delusion and brainwashing of a belief in God?  *You're superior intelligence is able to discern the inexistence of God, but yet *you claim this God's power in speech.  *You can poke fun at us lesser intelligent, deluded and brainwashed for believing in God, but *you can't even stop using some simple words?  If they don't MEAN anything to you, why INSIST on using the speech of one who believes or is brainwashed?

[LegendarySandwich]

If I say "god damn it!" I'm not actuall invoking a god to damn something,

You're not?  A simple look at the words proves you wrong and illogical.

Congratulations, you've shown an inability to understand expressions.

I used to think you weren't an idiot, AD, but after watching this thread develop, I'm not so sure.

[xSilverPhinx]

The religious aspect is one I hardly ever even think about, when using phrases like OMG, 'go to hell' 'heaven on Earth' and that sort of thing. I even use the word angel on occasion, not that I mean a supernatural being when I use it. Those things are purely semantically adopted phrases that are already circling around.

The question/point remains;  If it is true that the Atheist/Free Thinkers are of higher intelligence (and it is what *you all promote), why do *you lower yourself to the use of "sematically adopted phrases" that are a call to a higher power?  Why would the higher intelligence adopt phrases from the lower intelligence?  Using these puts *you on the same deluded and brainwashed plane as those that *you put down.  It's like *you can't grow up and all the while poking fun at others just like *you.  Is it that those of higher intelligence cannot conceive of exclamations that do not include the fairy tale God?

I use those phrases because I want to, they've already got meanings and people whether religious (of any religion) or not will understand me when I say something like: Jesus Christ! Talking about blowing something out of proportion here!

[AnimatedDirt]

I use those phrases because I want to, they've already got meanings and people whether religious (of any religion) or not will understand me when I say something like: Jesus Christ! Talking about blowing something out of proportion here!

Thank you.  We're not discussing this.  Maybe you should take a few moments and read the topic.  We are way passed this.
Plus you've already shot yourself in the foot with the above.

Moving along.

[Davin]

If I say "god damn it!" I'm not actuall invoking a god to damn something,

You're not?  A simple look at the words proves you wrong and illogical.

Exclamations are often illogical. Like someone saying "damn you hammer!" when it was the person's fault the hammer hurt them, how logical is it for a person to be angry at an inanimate object when it was their fault. What is illogical is to suppose that one must be invoking a god to damn a hammer when they say "god damn you hammer!" without demonstrating that a god actually damn things.

any more than I'm invoking a shit to fuck or damn something when I say "shit, fuck, damn it!" To me they're equal statements of which I'm not appealing to shit or a god.

When you say, "Shit damn it" or "Fuck damn it", you're not invoking God.  You are correct.  When you say "Shit!" or "Fuck!", you're not invoking God.  you are correct.  However, when you exclaim, "God damn it!" or "god damn it!" you are invoking God or god and something to which you hold no belief exists.

If I'm not invoking shit when I say "shit, fuck damn it!", then I'm also not invoking god when I say "god, fuck damn it!" They are equal statements. So either you believe that people are invoking shit, fuck, bitch, the man, dancing waffles, Kirk Hammet, German sports cars, etc. when they use other exclamations, or you agree that referencing a word does not necessarily mean the person is invoking or appealling to the term. I guess another option is for you to be inconsistent.

So demonstrate what is being invoked, because as many times as I've "invoked" a god (or shit) to damn something, I've yet to see anything get damned.

This is hardly the point.  You don't say, "Unicorn damn it!" and you've never seen any unicorns damn anything either.  So why God?  Where's the logic?

But I do, like I've said many times before, I use unicorn, leprechaun, bb gun, waffles, Kirk Hammet, Kevin Bacon, and a huge variety of other terms. In this post that you're responding to I've used "shit, fuck damn it" and I've yet to see shit damn anything. Nor do I expect or in anyway think that this will damn anything. This is because I'm not actually invoking or appealling to shit or god. I don't hold hold religious terms any more special than Saturday morning cartoon characters or shit. Because I don't hold anything more special than anything else, I do not have to describe "why god?", you making a special case for god, must answer "why god?"

Seems like you're rehashing it here and I'm responding.

Yes I am, you just said you didn't know what I was talking about so I linked you the post that you ignored/missed.

Like I said, seems like your rehashing/revisiting these points here and I am responding now.  (sigh)

Like I said, yes.

If I do use the word "god" when I use exclamations, I'm not appealing to it, it is just a word.

Again, see the beginning of this post.

I have, you're claiming it's more than just a word and must demonstrate that it is.

Demosntrate how just saying the word "god" is appealing to your (and not Muslims, Jews, Egyptian, Greek, Roman, etc. god/s) god.

While I think it does specifically invoke the power of my God, the point is you don't believe in God or gods.  So why invoke ANY?

I'm not invoking any.

Where's the logic in this when *you have been able to thwart the delusion and brainwashing of a belief in God?  *You're superior intelligence is able to discern the inexistence of God, but yet *you claim this God's power in speech.  *You can poke fun at us lesser intelligent, deluded and brainwashed for believing in God,[...]

I do none of these things, nor am I of the opinion that religious people are less intelligent than I. If you have an issue with something someone else said, then take it up with them.

but *you can't even stop using some simple words?

I could if I had reason to, there's no reason to so I don't discriminate. If I had a reason to discriminate then I could explain why I would refrain from using the terms. But because they're just words, there is no reason to limit my vernacular. You must explain why I should put limits on my word choice.

If they don't MEAN anything to you, why INSIST on using the speech of one who believes or is brainwashed?

I don't insist, I just see no reason abridge my speech. You're the one who is insisting that I must restrict my speech because I'm an atheist. You must explain why I must make an effort to select non-religious terms, when at current I do not.

[Ihateyoumike]

Maybe (almost) everyone should agree to disagree with Dirt. Is it not clear that he is set on his point being the correct one, and nobody is going to be able to get him to accept their point of view on this topic?
Personally, I think this thread should be merged with the one that Whitney renamed to show how pointless the argument is.

[Davin]

Maybe (almost) everyone should agree to disagree with Dirt. Is it not clear that he is set on his point being the correct one, and nobody is going to be able to get him to accept their point of view on this topic?
Personally, I think this thread should be merged with the one that Whitney renamed to show how pointless the argument is.

I think this is the longest any thread has remained on topic (when there was a topic to begin with), and you want to just take that all away?

[Jolly Sapper]

@ AnimatedDirt

Must everything be taken literally?  Cannot a word or phrase be used figuratively?  

The phrase "god damn" something has evolved into meaning more than an invocation of a god.  Its morphed into a catch all explicative for most people including the religious has it not?

When I say "Your eyes sparkle," do I mean that your eyeballs have been replaced with tiny disco balls or is it just an expression?
When I say "You're as fucked up as a nine eyed baby," do I mean that I have some actual experience with nine eyed babies that I can use to compare you with (not you personally mind, but a figurative someone) or is this merely a creative use of words that invokes, if anything, the idea that a person to whom this phrased is directed towards is quite fucked up?

You also keep using the phrase "superior intelligence."  

One could say that the ability to view language as more a string of words to be interpreted literally as a lack of intelligence, or at the very least a lack of creativity.

[AnimatedDirt]

Exclamations are often illogical. Like someone saying "damn you hammer!" when it was the person's fault the hammer hurt them, how logical is it for a person to be angry at an inanimate object when it was their fault. What is illogical is to suppose that one must be invoking a god to damn a hammer when they say "god damn you hammer!" without demonstrating that a god actually damn things.

Because the Abrahamic God does claim the ability, hence the term(s).  The question then is; why does a non-believer insist on defending their use of said term when it directly invokes the power of the Abrahamic God to do so?  The point is not that the Atheist MUST refrain from using such terms, the question is on the logical position of the Atheist to self-train to not use these.  Can the Atheist use them?  Yes, certainly he/she can.  Should he/she?  Logically?  Therein lies my point.  Logically, he/she shouldn't be using them...in the least he/she should be making every effort not to use them.  

If I'm not invoking shit when I say "shit, fuck damn it!", then I'm also not invoking god when I say "god, fuck damn it!" They are equal statements. So either you believe that people are invoking shit, fuck, bitch, the man, dancing waffles, Kirk Hammet, German sports cars, etc. when they use other exclamations, or you agree that referencing a word does not necessarily mean the person is invoking or appealling to the term. I guess another option is for you to be inconsistent.

There is no set of books that has an entity in it called "Shit" or "Fuck" that claims power to damn anything.  So again, you're correct.  Using these does not invoke their power as there is no power and no claim to power, neither do the rest of your waffles, the man... only God does.  Only God claims power in His name and in Him.

But I do, like I've said many times before, I use unicorn, leprechaun, bb gun, waffles, Kirk Hammet, Kevin Bacon, and a huge variety of other terms. In this post that you're responding to I've used "shit, fuck damn it" and I've yet to see shit damn anything. Nor do I expect or in anyway think that this will damn anything. This is because I'm not actually invoking or appealling to shit or god. I don't hold hold religious terms any more special than Saturday morning cartoon characters or shit. Because I don't hold anything more special than anything else, I do not have to describe "why god?", you making a special case for god, must answer "why god?"

I have, you're claiming it's more than just a word and must demonstrate that it is.

I just did above...

I do none of these things, nor am I of the opinion that religious people are less intelligent than I. If you have an issue with something someone else said, then take it up with them.

Hence the *you.  YOU may not, but the majority of Atheists do.  Simply read around some of the threads and images posted here at HAF.

I could if I had reason to, there's no reason to so I don't discriminate. If I had a reason to discriminate then I could explain why I would refrain from using the terms. But because they're just words, there is no reason to limit my vernacular. You must explain why I should put limits on my word choice.

It's the logical position an Atheist should hold.

I don't insist, I just see no reason abridge my speech. You're the one who is insisting that I must restrict my speech because I'm an atheist. You must explain why I must make an effort to select non-religious terms, when at current I do not.

I'm not asking you to abridge your speech or insisting you restrict it.
I'm simply stating it is the logical position to take given a certain stance.  Furthermore, that those who don't are acting outside of logic by choice and/or ignorance.

[AnimatedDirt]

Must everything be taken literally?  Cannot a word or phrase be used figuratively?

Explain the figurative use of "God damn you/it!", "Oh my God/god!", "Holy shit!", "God!",...

The phrase "god damn" something has evolved into meaning more than an invocation of a god.  Its morphed into a catch all explicative for most people including the religious has it not?

I agree that more than just the "religious" use the term(s).  However, explain how it doesn't invoke God?  Davin claims to use many other names in place of God, but it's not the norm.  It is as you say, "Its morphed into a catch all..."  Just because it's morphed, doesn't remove the fact of the term(s) being exactly as they mean when put into that sequence.

When I say "Your eyes sparkle," do I mean that your eyeballs have been replaced with tiny disco balls or is it just an expression?

It's a term used to mean that there is a sparkle in the eye...not dead.  Do you know why artists and photographers purposely put the "sparkle" in the eye(s) of their subject?  (the white or shine, I think "glint" is a term graphic artists use...at least the graphic artists I know)

When I say "You're as fucked up as a nine eyed baby," do I mean that I have some actual experience with nine eyed babies that I can use to compare you with (not you personally mind, but a figurative someone) or is this merely a creative use of words that invokes, if anything, the idea that a person to whom this phrased is directed towards is quite fucked up?

Would not the thought of birthing a nine-eyed baby, in a society where two is the norm, one on occasion, is "fucked up"?  The "power" is in the nine eyes being odd.

You also keep using the phrase "superior intelligence."

This is because most outspoken Atheists believe themselves to be of superior intelligence.  At least above that of the deluded, brainwashed Christian.

One could say that the ability to view language as more a string of words to be interpreted literally as a lack of intelligence, or at the very least a lack of creativity.

No argument.  The point, as I've stated numerous times, is that there is only ONE GOD that claims the power to damn, damn to hell...from where all of these terms take their root.  They are a string of words, no doubt.  But they are a string of words with meaning and meaning only when one believes "God" can damn.  Why would an Atheist EVER invoke "God" for anything at all other than when discussing or debating against one who believes?  Why does the Atheist from one side of their mouth denounce God and from the other promote God?  What logic is being employed here?

That is why I say, It is illogical for an Atheist to use these terms.  At the very least, the Atheist should acknowledge he/she is being illogical in not attempting to change their speech to the more logical position...hence they are being illogical.

[Davin]

Exclamations are often illogical. Like someone saying "damn you hammer!" when it was the person's fault the hammer hurt them, how logical is it for a person to be angry at an inanimate object when it was their fault. What is illogical is to suppose that one must be invoking a god to damn a hammer when they say "god damn you hammer!" without demonstrating that a god actually damn things.

Because the Abrahamic God does claim the ability, hence the term(s).  The question then is; why does a non-believer insist on defending their use of said term when it directly invokes the power of the Abrahamic God to do so?  The point is not that the Atheist MUST refrain from using such terms, the question is on the logical position of the Atheist to self-train to not use these.  Can the Atheist use them?  Yes, certainly he/she can.  Should he/she?  Logically?  Therein lies my point.  Logically, he/she shouldn't be using them...in the least he/she should be making every effort not to use them.

Why should one choose to make religious terms something special enough to make an effort to not use them? There is no logical reason for a person to treat religious terms differently than any other terms if they're not religious.

If I'm not invoking shit when I say "shit, fuck damn it!", then I'm also not invoking god when I say "god, fuck damn it!" They are equal statements. So either you believe that people are invoking shit, fuck, bitch, the man, dancing waffles, Kirk Hammet, German sports cars, etc. when they use other exclamations, or you agree that referencing a word does not necessarily mean the person is invoking or appealling to the term. I guess another option is for you to be inconsistent.

There is no set of books that has an entity in it called "Shit" or "Fuck" that claims power to damn anything.  So again, you're correct.  Using these does not invoke their power as there is no power and no claim to power, neither do the rest of your waffles, the man... only God does.  Only God claims power in His name and in Him.

But saying "Magneto bend it!" is invoking Magneto to bend something? I suppose if I say "Kirk Hammet!" I'll invoke his power to rock out.

Because nothing gets damned no matter how oftern people exclaim "god damn it!" there is no reason to suppose that anything is being invoked and/or that religious terms should be treated differently than any other terms merely because they're religious.

But I do, like I've said many times before, I use unicorn, leprechaun, bb gun, waffles, Kirk Hammet, Kevin Bacon, and a huge variety of other terms. In this post that you're responding to I've used "shit, fuck damn it" and I've yet to see shit damn anything. Nor do I expect or in anyway think that this will damn anything. This is because I'm not actually invoking or appealling to shit or god. I don't hold hold religious terms any more special than Saturday morning cartoon characters or shit. Because I don't hold anything more special than anything else, I do not have to describe "why god?", you making a special case for god, must answer "why god?"

I have, you're claiming it's more than just a word and must demonstrate that it is.

I just did above...

You have not demonstrated that "god" is more than just a word, merely asserted things. While I've shown that the lack of damned things points to the word being nothing more than a word that does not actually invoke anything.

I do none of these things, nor am I of the opinion that religious people are less intelligent than I. If you have an issue with something someone else said, then take it up with them.

Hence the *you.  YOU may not, but the majority of Atheists do.  Simply read around some of the threads and images posted here at HAF.

Because I've never said anything like what you have said in that paragraph, I do not see why you posted it in response to me.

I could if I had reason to, there's no reason to so I don't discriminate. If I had a reason to discriminate then I could explain why I would refrain from using the terms. But because they're just words, there is no reason to limit my vernacular. You must explain why I should put limits on my word choice.

It's the logical position an Atheist should hold.

You can't just put out words like "logical" and expect people to just agree with you. So far you've used logic that does not follow to support why you think that it is the logical position an atheist should hold. Which means that you have no support for claiming that it is the logical position an atheist should hold.

I don't insist, I just see no reason abridge my speech. You're the one who is insisting that I must restrict my speech because I'm an atheist. You must explain why I must make an effort to select non-religious terms, when at current I do not.

I'm not asking you to abridge your speech or insisting you restrict it.
I'm simply stating it is the logical position to take given a certain stance.  Furthermore, that those who don't are acting outside of logic by choice and/or ignorance.

Exclamations, as I've stated many times before, are not logical. It's not required that everything that comes out of someones mouth be logical to be a logical person.

And again: just stating that something is logical/illogical, does not make it so. Your logic does not follow to this conclusion.

[AnimatedDirt]

And again: just stating that something is logical/illogical, does not make it so. Your logic does not follow to this conclusion.

The fact that you, of a higher more intelligent position of Atheism (as promoted by most Atheism) is continuing to debate this shows there is merit.

Fact:  These "God" exclamations invoke the Abrhamic God.  The base use/initial use proves this.  These come from a belief in God.  The claims of God are plainly written in scripture.  There is no argument here.  This is fact.

The use of these terms, while one may want to generalize and/or "morph into a catch-all", does not remove this fact and even if not intended to do so, do appeal to God.

Anyone that uses these terms is making an appeal to this God that makes these claims of ability.  Anyone that holds to a belief in this God logically uses these as they have meaning.  Those that hold no belief in this God illogically use these terms as there is no perceived power to do as the appeal suggests.

Therefore it is illogical for an Atheist to use these terms and should logically abstain to the best of their ability to not use them as this would be the most logical position to take in regard to these terms.  The point is not that the Atheist can't use them.  The point is the Atheist shouldn't, by any logic, want to use them BECAUSE it is NOT LOGICAL.

[LegendarySandwich]

Exclamations, as I've stated many times before, are not logical. It's not required that everything that comes out of someones mouth be logical to be a logical person.

Yep. Languages, especially the English one, aren't logical. I don't care if what I say is "logical" -- if it makes sense and other people can understand it, then it makes sense and other people can understand it. If it doesn't, it doesn't.

And regarding "atheists are smarter than the religious" -- I myself do not claim that. I think that atheists are likely to be of higher intelligence than a believer, but that doesn't mean that all atheists are super smart and all people of faith are dumb as rocks.