How I became a theist.

[Will]

This thread is troubling. I've had discussions with Christians and Muslims that claimed to have converted from atheism, and all of them have been marked by dishonesty and deviousness. I'm seeing the same patterns emerge here.

Bubblepot, would you care to provide your own personal definition of atheism? What was it, specifically, that you believed when you called yourself an atheist? Are you aware of the common definition of atheism?

[Sophus]

This thread is troubling. I've had discussions with Christians and Muslims that claimed to have converted from atheism, and all of them have been marked by dishonesty and deviousness. I'm seeing the same patterns emerge here.

I think so too, though I'm curious how you would define those patterns. To me it's like they build up the typical strawman of what they are taught the atheist is and then lament about how much they loved themselves and hated the world as a desperate rebellious atheist. Thanks C.S. Lewis (I doubt his sincerity as well).

[Whitney]

This thread is troubling. I've had discussions with Christians and Muslims that claimed to have converted from atheism, and all of them have been marked by dishonesty and deviousness. I'm seeing the same patterns emerge here.

I think so too, though I'm curious how you would define those patterns. To me it's like they build up the typical strawman of what they are taught the atheist is and then lament about how much they loved themselves and hated the world as a desperate rebellious atheist. Thanks C.S. Lewis (I doubt his sincerity as well).

I agree.

I'll add that there probably really are people who were atheists who later became religious.  There might even be people who fully understood all the arguments for and against god who later became theists.  But I've never met one who could talk about their past as an atheist without sounding like they know nothing about what an atheist is.

It would be like I claimed that I use to be christian then went on and on about how all Christians hate their fellow man and that I sure am glad I saw through that idiocy.

[Achronos]

What's this about C.S. Lewis' sincerity?

I had 3 atheists (one of them classified himself as militant) convert to Christianity at my parish, maybe they'd like to share their personal testimonies one day.

[Whitney]

What's this about C.S. Lewis' sincerity?

I had 3 atheists (one of them classified himself as militant) convert to Christianity at my parish, maybe they'd like to share their personal testimonies one day.

My impression of C.S. Lewis's deconversion account was that he was an unruly youth who was mad at god rather than of a reasoned atheist who later discovered Christianity was true; yet he tried to equate his experience as an atheist with all other people who are atheists (how these people who convert then later pretend like their experience is just like that of all atheists is the problem, I really can't contest whether he really didn't believe at one point or not as that is personal)

[Achronos]

My impression of C.S. Lewis's deconversion account was that he was an unruly youth who was mad at god

Hey maybe there is hope that Hitchens will convert one day.

rather than of a reasoned atheist who later discovered Christianity was true;

I don't know, his Christian apologetics showcase a man who is very reasoned. I don't know too much about his atheist background, I'll have to look into it this weekend. I'll have to paraphrase him by saying that you can't come to God only by logic or reason. Even he admitted faults with things accounted for in the Bible (Such as the Judas death potrayal in the Gospels).

[Whitney]

This is the book where I read about C.S. Lewis' comments on how he went from atheist to Christian.  

The Question of God:  http://www.amazon.com/Question-God-Sigm ... 0743202376

I made notes and such in the book, I should find it sometime and read it again...probably would be interesting to compare my thoughts then and now; esp since I had not yet taken any philosophy classes at the time I read the book.

btw, I think both Lewis and Freud came across very poorly in The Question of God (was also a PBS special, but I haven't seen the video version).

[Ultima22689]

http://www.unitednothing.net/content/an ... ssful.html

I don't even get why this thread wasn't deleted in a heartbeat. If this was from anyone else i'm sure the thread would be more than warranted but this is Bubblepot. He is a bonified troll, here, let me give a link to some of his classic works.

search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=3975&start=15

Guys, no matter how superior your arguments are against him, he's going to continue to post nonsense because he wants you to post, his trolling levels are on the same scale as BIgmac's were, just let this thread die, ignore Bubblepot, he gets his jollies from this. Unless of course you guys just enjoy replying to the little genius, then by all means, go ahead.

[Whitney]

Guys, no matter how superior your arguments are against him, he's going to continue to post nonsense because he wants you to post, his trolling levels are on the same scale as BIgmac's were, just let this thread die, ignore Bubblepot, he gets his jollies from this. Unless of course you guys just enjoy replying to the little genius, then by all means, go ahead.

I think a decent side discussion came out of it, though at no thanks to bubblepot....but I agree that Bubblepot is to be ignored I just prefer to have a more solid reason to point to when I ban someone permanently.

Big Mac and I were online friends well before this forum started and it was really hard for me to decide to perm ban him (completely different guy when he's talking one on one)....but yes, they are similar.

[Sophus]

But I've never met one who could talk about their past as an atheist without sounding like they know nothing about what an atheist is.

It would be fun to look for one although I suspect it would be difficult to tell if they're being honest or not since the deconversion is almost always due to social reasons. The cynic in me suspects that for some of these more well known deconverters who have had a feeling tugging at their heart is actually in part the intuition that there is money to be made from writing apologetic books under the newfound facile authority that they were once an atheist. Or at the very least, popularity to be gained from a welcoming religious community eager to have the other side and all its dark mysterious ways explained to them. There's a whole community you can see once every week, waiting to praise you just for aligning your beliefs with theirs. If someone's feeling lonely and unloved and depressed and bitter toward the world, why not blame it on atheism and go be "reborn"?

I had 3 atheists (one of them classified himself as militant) convert to Christianity at my parish, maybe they'd like to share their personal testimonies one day.

Atheists or agnostic apatheists?

I don't know, his Christian apologetics showcase a man who is very reasoned. I don't know too much about his atheist background, I'll have to look into it this weekend. I'll have to paraphrase him by saying that you can't come to God only by logic or reason. Even he admitted faults with things accounted for in the Bible (Such as the Judas death potrayal in the Gospels).

The two contradict. When apologists try to demean reason and make it seem as though their way of thinking is transcendent of it, it's a trick that hopes to make you forget they're just saying "throw reason out the window here." A weak attempt to make themselves untouchable without reason.

[Whitney]

It would be fun to look for one although I suspect it would be difficult to tell if they're being honest or not since the deconversion is almost always due to social reasons. The cynic in me suspects that for some of these more well known deconverters who have had a feeling tugging at their heart is actually in part the intuition that there is money to be made from writing apologetic books under the newfound facile authority that they were once an atheist. Or at the very least, popularity to be gained from a welcoming religious community eager to have the other side and all its dark mysterious ways explained to them. There's a whole community you can see once every week, waiting to praise you just for aligning your beliefs with theirs. If someone's feeling lonely and unloved and depressed and bitter toward the world, why not blame it on atheism and go be "reborn"?

Yes, yes..I can see the headlines now...Happy Atheist converts to Evangelical Christianity.  

[Recusant]

...his trolling levels are on the same scale as BIgmac's were...

I'm going to step up to defend Mac's honor here.  He was definitely not just a troll.  He contributed some quite thoughtful and thought-provoking posts during his long membership here.  Sure, he also went off the reservation on numerous occasions, but there's no merit in comparing him to the OP, in my opinion.

...you guys just enjoy replying to the little genius...

Actually, I for one do enjoy observing and interacting with the "little genius."  I have no illusions about his intent. Nor have I had any illusions regarding his nature since he made his debut here.  There is some entertainment to be had though, as long as one manages to dodge the occasional spatter of nasal mucous.  I know that you're not supposed to feed the troll, but I've found that sometimes good fun can be had from doing what one is not supposed to do.  Don't worry, no doubt he'll manage to get himself banned soon enough.

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By the way, Bubblepot, you still haven't answered my two very basic and straight-forward questions.  I really would appreciate the answers. Thanks.

[Ultima22689]

...his trolling levels are on the same scale as BIgmac's were...

I'm going to step up to defend Mac's honor here.  He was definitely not just a troll.  He contributed some quite thoughtful and thought-provoking posts during his long membership here.  Sure, he also went off the reservation on numerous occasions, but there's no merit in comparing him to the OP, in my opinion.

...you guys just enjoy replying to the little genius...

Actually, I for one do enjoy observing and interacting with the "little genius."  I have no illusions about his intent. Nor have I had any illusions regarding his nature since he made his debut here.  There is some entertainment to be had though, as long as one manages to dodge the occasional spatter of nasal mucous.  I know that you're not supposed to feed the troll, but I've found that sometimes good fun can be had from doing what one is not supposed to do.  Don't worry, no doubt he'll manage to get himself banned soon enough.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

By the way, Bubblepot, you still haven't answered my two very basic and straight-forward questions.  I really would appreciate the answers. Thanks.

You're right and I didn't mean to insinuate that Bigmac was a simpleton in any fashion, he brought enjoyable topics and even when he went overboard they were at many times entertaining and at the least well thought out.

I'd be lying if this thread hasn't made me laugh like a hyena at times, so, if it's your pleasure, please do indulge Bubblepot. XD

[Recusant]

The cynic in me suspects that for some of these more well known deconverters who have had a feeling tugging at their heart is actually in part the intuition that there is money to be made from writing apologetic books under the newfound facile authority that they were once an atheist.

I think it might be fun to do a pool on when S. E. Cupp inevitably (I think) does her big, "I seen the Light!  I seen the Light! Praise Jesus, I finally seen the Light!" routine.  I think it'll probably be another couple of years...

[Achronos]

Atheists or agnostic apatheists?

Atheists

The two contradict. When apologists try to demean reason and make it seem as though their way of thinking is transcendent of it, it's a trick that hopes to make you forget they're just saying "throw reason out the window here." A weak attempt to make themselves untouchable without reason.

What I think C.S. Lewis was getting at was that logic/reason alone cannot be the only way one comes in contact with God; God, as I mentioned in another thread is not merely just an intellectual exercise. Is that to say C.S. Lewis can't reasonably believe what he believes? Certainly not!

But there are limits to reason.