No human will according to science?

[hackenslash]

Glad to see you're still here. Please address my last post. The Kalam evisceration awaits.

Read my post above and post a new reply.

I read your post above. Deal with mine, which was extensive, and dealt with much guff that you posted. Is your tactic here to be simple evasion of the objections? That won't win you any friends here.

Address my post, please.

[Whitney]

iSok...if you are going to consider studying the world around us objectively in order to understand it (aka science) "holy" then you are a waste of all of our time.

What do you mean, can you explain?

Really!?

[hackenslash]

But gravity is also the cause of mass..particles.

Is it, indeed? The you know a whole hell of a lot more about physics than I do, along with ALL of the world's particle physicists! You should publish your results, as a Nobel prize awaits?

Here we are spending billions of dollars on particle accelerators looking for the Higgs-boson, and evidence of the HIggs field, while you had the answer all along!

Would you like to try again? Perhaps in your next attempt you could display a smidgeon less ignorance of physics.

Now, how about my post? Any danger of doing anything other than running away from that?

[LegendarySandwich]

I think I've come to a conclusion -- for now.

Free will is probably an illusion, but we should live our lives as if it exists.

[Davin]

I think I've come to a conclusion -- for now.

Free will is probably an illusion, but we should live our lives as if it exists.

Doesn't matter does it? You can't choose to act differently if it is true and you probably wouldn't act differently if it weren't true.

[LegendarySandwich]

I think I've come to a conclusion -- for now.

Free will is probably an illusion, but we should live our lives as if it exists.

Doesn't matter does it? You can't choose to act differently if it is true and you probably wouldn't act differently if it weren't true.

Not necessarily. I think one is inclined to do, and be more permissible towards, "unethical" acts if one has a deterministic perspective. I can link to some studies if you'd like.

[Davin]

Not necessarily. I think one is inclined to do, and be more permissible towards, "unethical" acts if one has a deterministic perspective. I can link to some studies if you'd like.

If accepting that everything is determined changes how someone acts, doesn't that imply a non-deterministic nature? Otherwise the new information determines (along with all the other determinants), how a person acts and there is still no choice in the matter. If you accept that everything is determined, then there is no choice, if you think that one can choose to be more permissible to "unethical" acts by accepting determinism, then there is at least one thing that is not determined.

[Sophus]

We as humans still do not know what the most tiny particle is, we are already far beyond quarks.

Do you have a reference to this?  

If science says, that every thought, every motion in your brain, is a consequence of
particular chemical reactions. Then how did those reactions start? And what action triggered that? And what action triggered that? and so on...and on..and on....
This would mean, that what my thoughts are at moment, the 'universe' already knew it 5 billion years ago.

Not quite. The universe doesn't know anything but your thoughts were not known or even determined 5 billion years ago. The most you could say is that they were in the process of being determined in some ways.

Because my thoughts are created because of certain chemical particles, those chemical particles already existed 5 billion years ago.

Does this make sense? Every action has a rection, and that leads to another action, so basically if we just go by science, everything has already been pre-destined?

Not predestined, per se. It's more like Determinism. I consider myself a Determinist but there are a lot of possibilities and probabilities to consider before saying everything now was set as far back as 15 billion years ago.

Where are the 'headquarters' of the human will? And what controlls that headquarter? Is there any 'headquarter'?

The brain is the headquarters for all human thought. But I don't believe in freewill.

That would mean that the particle that will cause your DNA in a certain cell to mutate, which means you will get cancer is already on it's journey
to reach you in a year or 15 so. And nothing is going to stop that particle, because every thought you have has already been pre-destined?

This sounds like everything in life. Stuff happens which you have no control over.

Even what I'm doing now, was already pre-destined.
Basically everything you do, whatever you think.

Nietzsche's Eternal Reccurrence:

“What if a demon were to creep after you one night, in your loneliest loneliness, and say, 'This life which you live must be lived by you once again and innumerable times more; and every pain and joy and thought and sigh must come again to you, all in the same sequence. The eternal hourglass will again and again be turned and you with it, dust of the dust!' Would you throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse that demon? Or would you answer, 'Never have I heard anything more divine'?”

I've never heard anything more divine.  

It makes no sense...What is the source of our intelligence?

Our brain.

If it happened just by chance, if it did..
Then why do we continue to progress?

No one hear in so few words can explain evolution more eloquently than the books that are already on the shelves but I will say

1. It is not by pure chance.
2. Natural selection is a process with no off button.

[LegendarySandwich]

Not necessarily. I think one is inclined to do, and be more permissible towards, "unethical" acts if one has a deterministic perspective. I can link to some studies if you'd like.

If accepting that everything is determined changes how someone acts, doesn't that imply a non-deterministic nature? Otherwise the new information determines (along with all the other determinants), how a person acts and there is still no choice in the matter. If you accept that everything is determined, then there is no choice, if you think that one can choose to be more permissible to "unethical" acts by accepting determinism, then there is at least one thing that is not determined.

A study.

Laypersons' belief in free will may foster a sense of thoughtful reflection and willingness to exert energy, thereby promoting helpfulness and reducing aggression, and so disbelief in free will may make behavior more reliant on selfish, automatic impulses and therefore less socially desirable. Three studies tested the hypothesis that disbelief in free will would be linked with decreased helping and increased aggression. In Experiment 1, induced disbelief in free will reduced willingness to help others. Experiment 2 showed that chronic disbelief in free will was associated with reduced helping behavior. In Experiment 3, participants induced disbelief in free will caused participants to act more aggressively than others. Although the findings do not speak to the existence of free will, the current results suggest that disbelief in free will reduces helping and increases aggression.

Too bad you have to pay to see the full study. Maybe I could find one where they show you more details for free.

[Sophus]

A study.

Laypersons' belief in free will may foster a sense of thoughtful reflection and willingness to exert energy, thereby promoting helpfulness and reducing aggression, and so disbelief in free will may make behavior more reliant on selfish, automatic impulses and therefore less socially desirable. Three studies tested the hypothesis that disbelief in free will would be linked with decreased helping and increased aggression. In Experiment 1, induced disbelief in free will reduced willingness to help others. Experiment 2 showed that chronic disbelief in free will was associated with reduced helping behavior. In Experiment 3, participants induced disbelief in free will caused participants to act more aggressively than others. Although the findings do not speak to the existence of free will, the current results suggest that disbelief in free will reduces helping and increases aggression.

Too bad you have to pay to see the full study. Maybe I could find one where they show you more details for free.

Thanks for sharing that LS. It's similar to this psychology study I came across a while ago on how people feel as though they have more freewill than others and the importance of believing that.