Theist Commentary: How to tell your family you are an atheist.

[Whitney]

We humans cannot differentiate between 'good' and 'evil', it's impossible for us without someone telling us.

perhaps YOU are unable to tell the difference (which would make you a sociopath)...the rest of us are able to figure it out on our own.

[iSok]

@Hackandslash,

I meant people with mental disability.

We humans cannot differentiate between 'good' and 'evil', it's impossible for us without someone telling us.

perhaps YOU are unable to tell the difference (which would make you a sociopath)...the rest of us are able to figure it out on our own.

So that would mean that the majority of Nazi-German was evil? And all of them should be punished?
Hitler murdered people with disabilities, ethnic minorities etc...the Germans were alright with that.

And how would you figure that out?

The thing is, you can easily be indoctrinated, it would take a matter of days.
What does 'good' for you mean Whitney? What do you see as 'good'? What is your source?

[LegendarySandwich]

@Hackandslash,

I meant people with mental disability.

They're still people with thoughts, feelings, hopes and dreams, all that crap. Just because they're not as smart as someone like me doesn't mean we should kill them.

So that would mean that the majority of Nazi-German was evil?

Evil according to me and most other people, yes.

And all of them should be punished?

It depends.

Hitler murdered people with disabilities, ethnic minorities etc...the Germans were alright with that.

So?

And how would you figure that out?

...Figure out they were evil? With some rational thinking and common sense.

The thing is, you can easily be indoctrinated, it would take a matter of days.

So?

[Whitney]

So that would mean that the majority of Nazi-German was evil? And all of them should be punished?
Hitler murdered people with disabilities, ethnic minorities etc...the Germans were alright with that.

And how would you figure that out?

The thing is, you can easily be indoctrinated, it would take a matter of days.

They lived in a time where they thought they needed a political savior and Hitler was more than happy to be that person and offer his solution...throw in a bit of religious indoctrination and you have a recipe for getting good people to do bad things (one of the natzi indoctrination slogans was god with us) There were also many who did ignore the propaganda (government brainwashing) and did the right thing by helping those who were being harmed.

If it would only take a matter of days to indoctrinate me, I'd be a Christian as US society is constantly being bombarded by christian indoctrination techniques.  You really have no basis for assuming I am that weak minded.

As for how we can determine what is good or bad...for now let's just call it empathy and that normal people empathize with others unless they are reprogrammed to dehumanize a group of people...a full discussion of how e know right from wrong would be a derail and has been discussed on HAF before anyway.

[iSok]

They're still people with thoughts, feelings, hopes and dreams, all that crap. Just because they're not as smart as someone like me doesn't mean we should kill them.

Why not? Why do you see it as something evil?

Evil according to me and most other people, yes.

If you do believe in absolute evil,that means you believe in God.
Because 'evil' can be seen as the absence of God.
'Evil' does not exist in a world without God.

And all of them should be punished?

In that society, there were people with higher morals and better understanding of 'good' and 'evil' than you and I combined.
But they all fell prey to indoctrination, because we humans are weak.

...Figure out they were evil? With some rational thinking and common sense.

If you just use rational thinking. Then it would be okay to kill people with disabilities.

They do not contribute to mankind.
They cost us money.
Therefore, we can end his/her life.
(exactly what Hitler did)

What do you see a common sense?

So?

Man is weak, man needs someone to tell him what is wrong and what is right.
Therefore religion is needed in our society, even if you see it as falsehood.

[Whitney]

If you just use rational thinking. Then it would be okay to kill people with disabilities.

They do not contribute to mankind.
They cost us money.
Therefore, we can end his/her life.
(exactly what Hitler did)
 

That has already been disproven with pictures of disabled people who DO contribute loads to society ...stop repeating non-points.

I know you are making these arguments just to make your own religion sound better but in the process you are making yourself sound like a person who would go on a murdering spree if they ever lost their religion...not the approach I would choose  

[iSok]

They lived in a time where they thought they needed a political savior and Hitler was more than happy to be that person and offer his solution

This process did not happen in the past, but it still happens. In time of needs people seek a 'medecine' to every 'illness'
And it will happen again.

...throw in a bit of religious indoctrination and you have a recipe for getting good people to do bad things (one of the natzi indoctrination slogans was god with us) There were also many who did ignore the propaganda (government brainwashing) and did the right thing by helping those who were being harmed.

Every ideology can be used in this process, sometimes you don't.
I do not know how big the influence was because of the slogan 'God is with us'.
The major part however was common indoctrination, which had nothing to do with religion but just to repeat the following sentence.

'The jew is weak, we are Superior'

Read about the experiment done at Standford University in 1971.
There's also a movie about it 'Das Experiment'.

If it would only take a matter of days to indoctrinate me, I'd be a Christian as US society is constantly being bombarded by christian indoctrination techniques.  You really have no basis for assuming I am that weak minded.

It would be different if the US came after each and every atheist, therefore isolating you. Then it wouldn't take that long.
This also happened in Germany, in isolation, it won't take too long. No matter how strong-minded you are.

As for how we can determine what is good or bad...for now let's just call it empathy and that normal people empathize with others unless they are reprogrammed to dehumanize a group of people...a full discussion of how e know right from wrong would be a derail and has been discussed on HAF before anyway.

I'll end this discussion here then.

[iSok]

That has already been disproven with pictures of disabled people who DO contribute loads to society ...stop repeating non-points.

I know you are making these arguments just to make your own religion sound better but in the process you are making yourself sound like a person who would go on a murdering spree if they ever lost their religion...not the approach I would choose  

I meant people with mental disability's...who do not contribute anything to society.
Hitler killed those people so the 'Aryan' race could be 'perfect'.
The spartans did the same, they threw their newborns if they looked weak off from a cliff.
I am giving you these arguments not just for the sake of my religion, but for every religion.

Your ultimate source of 'good' and 'bad' is the Bible.

[LegendarySandwich]

They're still people with thoughts, feelings, hopes and dreams, all that crap. Just because they're not as smart as someone like me doesn't mean we should kill them.

Why not? Why do you see it as something evil?

Why shouldn't I?

Evil according to me and most other people, yes.

If you do believe in absolute evil,that means you believe in God.

What kind of fallacy is this called, again?

Because 'evil' can be seen as the absence of God.

Key word: "can".

'Evil' does not exist in a world without God.

According to you; though I would agree that objective evil most likely doesn't exist.

And all of them should be punished?

In that society, there were people with higher morals and better understanding of 'good' and 'evil' than you and I combined.
But they all fell prey to indoctrination, because we humans are weak.

There is no "better" or "worse" when everything is subjective. And what is your point? That people can be fooled?

...Figure out they were evil? With some rational thinking and common sense.

If you just use rational thinking. Then it would be okay to kill people with disabilities.

Why?

They do not contribute to mankind.

Not necessarily, and so?

They cost us money.

So?

Therefore, we can end his/her life.
(exactly what Hitler did)

I wouldn't call that rational thinking, as I wouldn't call treating human life as a product where you can destroy it if it doesn't satisfy your needs rational.

What do you see a common sense?

A lot of things.

Basically, I see it as pragmatic thinking.

Man is weak, man needs someone to tell him what is wrong and what is right.

No he doesn't.

Therefore religion is needed in our society, even if you see it as falsehood.

Even if you are right and an ideology is needed, I can think up a better ideology than Islam.

[iSok]

Even if you are right and an ideology is needed, I can think up a better ideology than Islam.

The difference between your ideology and Islam, is that it can be altered, and changed. Since it's not seen as 'divine'.
Which is my point.

[Davin]

Your ultimate source of 'good' and 'bad' is the Bible.

Would you consider killing millions of people (babies, kids, the unborn as well as men and women), good or bad?

[Whitney]

Your ultimate source of 'good' and 'bad' is the Bible.

 

[iSok]

Would you consider killing millions of people (babies, kids, the unborn as well as men and women), good or bad?

That would be 'bad' by human hands.

So you deny that the society you live in, used the Bible as it's foundation?

[LegendarySandwich]

Your ultimate source of 'good' and 'bad' is the Bible.

That is an insult.

[LegendarySandwich]

The difference between your ideology and Islam, is that it can be altered, and changed. Since it's not seen as 'divine'.
Which is my point.

What relevance does your point have? Who cares?