Theist Commentary: How to tell your family you are an atheist.

[LegendarySandwich]

You do not understand an atheistic, humanist or secular world view.

Now I do, very well in fact.

Oh, so now it's okay to make hasty generalizations about a whole group based on a couple members of that group? Okay, then. I now propose that all Muslims make hasty generalizations about entire groups based on a couple members of that group.

Your posts reek of a "holier than thou" attitude.

[iSok]

You do not understand an atheistic, humanist or secular world view.

Now I do, very well in fact.

Oh, so now it's okay to make hasty generalizations about a whole group based on a couple members of that group? Okay, then. I now propose that all Muslims make hasty generalizations about entire groups based on a couple members of that group.

Your posts reek of a "holier than thou" attitude.

I was refering to him, I don't understand why you missed that.


1- Reply to my full post.

2- So now I'm holy because I gave some examples?

[Tom62]

Let's keep this thread civilized, shall we. There is no need to call people names.

[iSok]

I'm sorry Tom, I understand I went a bit too far.


But my reaction was pointed out to Tank.
I made a mistake about my first post. But look at Tank's comment meant for my 'shouldn't have done it' post.

[Whitney]

And this is why the thread was split before there was an actual reason to split it!

never thought it would be that hard for you people.

Considering your reactions to those who have commented on this thread and that they probably have religious family members...do you still think it wouldn't be hard for people?

[iSok]

And this is why the thread was split before there was an actual reason to split it!

never thought it would be that hard for you people.

Considering your reactions to those who have commented on this thread and that they probably have religious family members...do you still think it wouldn't be hard for people?

I didn't say: 'I don't THINK it's that hard for you people

I said: I NEVER THOUGHT it WOULD be that hard for you people. (after reading your testimony's)

There's a difference.
The second is in the past.

Tank must have missed that. I hope he did...

[Whitney]

NO NEED TO YELL

 

[iSok]

NO NEED TO YELL

 

PEOPLE MISSED IT AT FIRST

This thread can be deleted, I don't think it serves any value, does it?

[Sophus]

What secularism did in the last century.

-World war 1 (20 milion)
-World war 2 (Hitler was not a christian. he actually called christianity a disease) (55 mllion)

:hissyfit:[/quote]
  Hee hee... What are the big font options there for?

[Heretical Rants]

What secularism did in the last century.

-World war 1 (20 milion)
-World war 2 (Hitler was not a christian. he actually called christianity a disease) (55 mllion)

 I lost interest there. Please stop saying Hitler was an atheist, it's embarrassing and disingenuous.

...And who cares, even if he was?  He didn't do anything in the name of secularism.

Even Stalin banned religion only because it would have competed with him for power.

[Tank]

@iSor

If there were an Olympic medal for the 100m 'jumping to conclusions hurdles' you would be over the finishing line before the other competitors had left their starting blocks. This is a problem with the Internet in general. I'm sure I have read somewhere that one loses 93% of communication 'bandwidth' via the written word when compared to face-to-face discussion. Our life experiences are different, but you appear to be saying that your life is more valid than mine, without knowing anything about me. How presumptive is that? You are not married, you don't have a family. You may do one day I don't know what you hope for the future. But I have done things you never will and you have done things I never will. That should allow us to learn from each other shouldn't it?  But you don't know me or my motivations or my prejudices. Why did I write what I wrote? Could I possibly have been pushing buttons to see how you react, to find out about you?

I liked the article about the Egyptian women and the Afghan man very much, we should see more of those sorts of articles. I agree with you that the Western Press paints Islam in a bad light. But they paint everybody in a bad light. Bad news sells papers and gets people's attention which is an unfortunate situation all people face. Muslims gets a bum rap, I was interested to see how you would react to having that reflected to you. You were in part rude, mean spirited and closed minded. If you are to be perceived as a 'friend' (and I did notice the irony BTW) then you need to behave like one. You can't rise to bating, you just appear vindictive and foolish.

I am at college at the moment in Bradford which has a very large Pakistani community. I am one of only 3 white people in a class of 15 and I get on with my classmates very well. I have no problems with anybody of any race, or belief system or sexual-orientation/gender. I love variety and have travelled to over a dozen countries and enjoy meeting people. I have worked in a warehouse and presented to the boards of multi-million dollar corporations. If I could be in the body of another person it would be Michael Palin or David Attenbrough. Who would you change places with?

My first post to you was by way of advice, given in good faith to a new member, which you pretty much ignored and started on the 'I know best preaching' route. One thing I hope you will learn, one way or the other, is that telling people how to think rarely works. People who lead by example are generally respected. If you want to influence the way people think about Islam and Muslims in general you need to be like those Egyptian women or that Afghan man. What they did was see people as people not the strawman you have constructed around me or atheists in general. You need to see the person first and always if you are to be seen as a good person yourself.

I've been toying with you to show you how easily you can be manipulated into thinking one thing while the truth is very different.

Have a think on how easily you daemonised me in your own mind. You wanted to find the nasty atheist. You wanted to have your own prejudices confirmed. I played that role to show you how easily you could fall for your own propaganda. You have ceased to interact with me, in fact you never bothered to get to know me at all, you are interacting with your own stereotype of what you think I am.

I think you came here with an agenda, you said as much in one of your posts, not to join in with this community. You have a wonderful opportunity to learn here if you choose to take it. Of the forums I have been on this is by far the best for inclusivity. We could do with a Muslin member who is prepared to intact honestly with us. Are you that Muslim or are you just going to spout rhetoric and be abusive of other people's world views? Are you really here to learn or preach? Are you like OBL, or an Egyption woman, or Afghan man? Which of those do you aspire to be?


Regards
Chris

EDIT. I reread you post and noted that you didn't recommend a Muslim forum where atheists are welcome. Is there one that you know of?

[iSok]

Before I start replying Tank, I realize that I went a bit too far.
Not because of your post, but because of your age.
I was raised to have respect for elders, something which is common in Islam and the Afghan community.

I'm sorry if I have hurt your feelings, but do read my post, so you understand why.

If there were an Olympic medal for the 100m 'jumping to conclusions hurdles' you would be over the finishing line before the other competitors had left their starting blocks. This is a problem with the Internet in general. I'm sure I have read somewhere that one loses 93% of communication 'bandwidth' via the written word when compared to face-to-face discussion. Our life experiences are different, but you appear to be saying that your life is more valid than mine, without knowing anything about me. How presumptive is that? You are not married, you don't have a family. You may do one day I don't know what you hope for the future. But I have done things you never will and you have done things I never will. That should allow us to learn from each other shouldn't it?  But you don't know me or my motivations or my prejudices. Why did I write what I wrote? Could I possibly have been pushing buttons to see how you react, to find out about you?

Well, this is an online forum. What you write is without facial expressions.
I've seen countless people on the internet who are serious about it.

How should I know if you were pushing my buttons?

- By knowing you (which I don't)
- By looking at your facial expressions (which I can't)

So I'm not to blame.

I liked the article about the Egyptian women and the Afghan man very much, we should see more of those sorts of articles. I agree with you that the Western Press paints Islam in a bad light. But they paint everybody in a bad light. Bad news sells papers and gets people's attention which is an unfortunate situation all people face. Muslims gets a bum rap, I was interested to see how you would react to having that reflected to you. You were in part rude, mean spirited and closed minded. If you are to be perceived as a 'friend' (and I did notice the irony BTW) then you need to behave like one. You can't rise to bating, you just appear vindictive and foolish.

Well, just read your post again. It does hurt me when people think like that while they claim they are polite, open-minded and an intellectual.
You're not the first who is posting things like these. I've seen countless people do the same, and they were serious about it.
If 'not so smart' people post replies like that I ignore it, but I got upset because it came from from you.

I am at college at the moment in Bradford which has a very large Pakistani community. I am one of only 3 white people in a class of 15 and I get on with my classmates very well. I have no problems with anybody of any race, or belief system or sexual-orientation/gender. I love variety and have travelled to over a dozen countries and enjoy meeting people. I have worked in a warehouse and presented to the boards of multi-million dollar corporations. If I could be in the body of another person it would be Michael Palin or David Attenbrough. Who would you change places with?

If I could, I'd rather swap with a shepherd in Afghanistan, leading a simple life in the most beautiful valley on earth. But that's not how life
works, I don't only live for myself.

My first post to you was by way of advice, given in good faith to a new member, which you pretty much ignored and started on the 'I know best preaching' route. One thing I hope you will learn, one way or the other, is that telling people how to think rarely works. People who lead by example are generally respected. If you want to influence the way people think about Islam and Muslims in general you need to be like those Egyptian women or that Afghan man. What they did was see people as people not the strawman you have constructed around me or atheists in general. You need to see the person first and always if you are to be seen as a good person yourself.

I never concluded anything, as a matter of fact, I have a lot of atheist friends. But they don't really talk about religion, since they are not really interested (phase of life?).
The reason I came here is that some people on this forum were still looking for God. My intention was to give info about Islam(which is quite misunderstood) and to understand
why people reject God.

I've been toying with you to show you how easily you can be manipulated into thinking one thing while the truth is very different.

Read above.

Have a think on how easily you daemonised me in your own mind. You wanted to find the nasty atheist. You wanted to have your own prejudices confirmed. I played that role to show you how easily you could fall for your own propaganda. You have ceased to interact with me, in fact you never bothered to get to know me at all, you are interacting with your own stereotype of what you think I am.

Read above, I have atheist friends, so I do know that they can be nice people. I didn't want to find the nasty atheist...I don't know you, and what you think but somehow you already know me?
I think if we take a look at the current situation in the world; Muslims are probably the most daemonised people in the world. It's quite rare to find
a forum without prejudice towards Islam or Muslims.

I never insulted you before, see my debate with other members. Did I go harsh on them?

I think you came here with an agenda, you said as much in one of your posts, not to join in with this community. You have a wonderful opportunity to learn here if you choose to take it. Of the forums I have been on this is by far the best for inclusivity. We could do with a Muslin member who is prepared to intact honestly with us. Are you that Muslim or are you just going to spout rhetoric and be abusive of other people's world views? Are you really here to learn or preach? Are you like OBL, or an Egyption woman, or Afghan man? Which of those do you aspire to be?

Read above once again.
I'm none of them I'd rather find my own way. Something we all should.


About the forum, you can start looking at http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/forum.php (Sunniforum)
The forum is actually more about 'Islamic principles', like how to pray, how to fast, how to read the Quran.
Lets say the people over there already concluded that they are Muslim and submit to God/Allah, they just want to have more info.
But you can easily start a debate with 'Why do you believe in God?'.

If you need more info, PM me.

[Stevil]

The reason I came here is ... to understand why people reject God.

Hello iSok

Are you assuming that all atheists reject god?

I haven't accepted any theories about the existence of god/s yet as I am waiting for some proof to come along. I haven't rejected them outright yet as there is no proof with regards to disproving the theories either.

I do have major concerns with regards to the intolerance that is taught by most faiths, this intolerance is against my personal values. I definately feel that I personally am more tolerant, forgiving, loving and less angry, vengefull and homocidal than the Christian god as described in the bible, so if proof of the Christian god came around I may actually decide to reject that god with regards to worship and or other demands made by it, but without proof I have simply put the theories aside into the unkown pile and would revisit if some conclusive proof comes up.

I don't know much about the muslim god so can't really comment, but it seems to have no proof either so onto the same pile. No rejection just yet.

[Whitney]

I'm pretty sure the Islamic answer to why people reject god is because god hardened their hearts...at least, that's what the quran told me when I made an attempt to read it (before I decided I had better things to do).

[LegendarySandwich]

I'm pretty sure the Islamic answer to why people reject god is because god hardened their hearts...at least, that's what the quran told me when I made an attempt to read it (before I decided I had better things to do).

That happens a lot in the Old Testament too, which pretty much nullifies the whole "free will" argument.