Why are we here? - Islam

[iSok]

Hello there (I come in peace),

As the title says it, I guess you know I am a muslim.
First of all let me introduce myself.

I'm a 21 year old male living in the Netherlands.
I study structural design at the University of Technology in Eindhoven.

I have always been fascinated by other people's believe, and their way of life.
And how they found their answers. Please I do not want to insult or hurt anyone's feeling, do not get me wrong.

I just wondered, what are basically the argument of atheists that they do not believe in God?

- Is it because off lack of proof?
- Because how believers behave (christians, jews, muslims), and that their behaviour goes against your principles? (9/11, Palestine, Persection of muslims in christians in Indonesia)
- Because of the suffering and 'evil' in this world?
- Because of children who die at the age of 5 due to Leukemia?
- Because religion is evil, and makes people evil?

I guess there are more arguments, if so, please include them.

Now you must wonder, why is this suicide bomber sitting in a cave in Afghanistan and starting a topic on this forum?
And what are his intentions?

Well, I hope I can start a discussion about Islam, and the view of Islam on life.
In my opinion, I think many people do not know how Islam answers these questions.
I think Islam also should have his turn, so people can evaluate it for themselves.

I hope my topic is welcome here, I really do not want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Life is about experience and learning, something we will all agree upon, no matter what our believes are.
So let us learn from eachother.

I hope we can start a good discussion, please accept me at least as a brother in humanity.

[joeactor]

Hello iSok.

Thanks for the introduction.  You seem to have a realistic outlook and an open mind to other views.

You've hit on many of the reasons that atheists lack belief in god.

Although I do believe in a god, I've found far too many issues with religion and their definition of god.
Religion has a great capacity for good, and for evil. The conflicting rules, stories, and descriptions definitely don't help.
In the end, I'm not convinced it's worth the time, energy and effort.  Better to directly address issues than work through a frankly confusing intermediary...

Well, that's my 2 cents.  Nice to meet you.  Looking forward to more conversations on the forum.

Welcome,
JoeActor

[The Magic Pudding]

I just wondered, what are basically the argument of atheists that they do not believe in God?

- Is it because off lack of proof?

Yes that does it for me.

I have concerns that the earth is limited, but some religions seem to encourage big families.
This is the only world I've got, or expect to have, is Islam onside on making it last?

[hackenslash]

Hello there (I come in peace),

Welcome.

- Is it because off lack of proof?

No, because proof is only applicable in formal axiomatic systems. What we lack is evidential support.

In my opinion, I think many people do not know how Islam answers these questions.

It doesn't answer these questions. It merely erects assertions with regard to what it thinks are the answers.

So let us learn from eachother.

Admirable indeed.

I hope we can start a good discussion, please accept me at least as a brother in humanity.

Welcome, brother.

[Existentialist]

Hi iSok, and a warm welcome.  I'm an atheist in the sense that I take the view that God doesn't exist.  This is probably a lot different from what most people who describe themselves as atheists would say, but obviously I'd let them speak for themselves.

I feel so confident that God doesn't exist that I'm not too unhappy about putting myself in religious settings.  I tend not to, probably because I find religious on a mundane level quite boring.  At heart my view is that I can't imagine myself ever changing my position and becoming a believer in any kind of God.  Therefore I can be in a congregation quite happily saying the words, "I believe in God the father" when actually I don't believe in any such thing.  I think a lot of atheists would have quite a big problem with even walking into a church, or a mosque, let alone chanting out hymns or prayers - for them it would be a point of principle not to even say the things they do not positively believe.  In practice I don't spend much time in any congregation really.  I've probably been in about ten in the last 30 years.

Religion and its beliefs, and the idea of God, are created by humans, and I tend to find things created by humans are quite enthralling.  Obviously there are some exceptions, like genocide.  Fortunately genocide doesn't happen in my street much.   The sounds and music of religion I often find quite beautiful - because they're invented by humans who can be extremely talented.  I find islamic culture interesting, even everyday sounds like the call to prayer can seem quite mesmerising.  I know the intonation of mid-eastern music often grates with the western ear, but I find if I get tuned in, it can be very engaging.  I'd love to find out out more about islam, really - so much of the time I feel it is on the defensive, so it doesn't get much of hearing.

[Velma]

For me it is the complete lack of evidence for any sort of deity.  I spent years searching and came up empty-handed.  

As for how islam answers such questions, I admit I have no studied it as much as I have the various flavors of christianity; however, like hackenslash, I have found it to also be nothing more than empty assertions.

[iSok]

I admire the posts, thanks for reading my topic even while posting this, I have to check if someone posted a new message.
Mankind should be open minded, in order to understand each other.


As you know, I am a student, and I am currently studying for tests (january is is the famous month).
I hope you understand I won't be able to reply to every question, I'm sorry for that, it's just because of lack off time.


Instead of answering every question individually.
Do you mind if I start a few posts about the following subjects?
Just to give a basic introduction.

- God, according to islamic belief.

- Why did he create man? And why all the suffering, the evil. Why is it here, if God can vanish it?

- What does this life mean to us?

- What is mankind's destiny?

[Existentialist]

Do you mind if I start a few posts about the following subjects?
Just to give a basic introduction.

- God, according to islamic belief.

- Why did he create man? And why all the suffering, the evil. Why is it here, if God can vanish it?

- What does this life mean to us?

- What is mankind's destiny?

No but the thing is, man created God, so it might lead to some arguments.  Have you got any links to good islamic music websites instead?  Also do you know or does anyone know what a formal axiomatic system is and why evidential support would be necessary outside of one?

[Tank]

I admire the posts, thanks for reading my topic even while posting this, I have to check if someone posted a new message.
Mankind should be open minded, in order to understand each other.


As you know, I am a student, and I am currently studying for tests (january is is the famous month).
I hope you understand I won't be able to reply to every question, I'm sorry for that, it's just because of lack off time.


Instead of answering every question individually.
Do you mind if I start a few posts about the following subjects?
Just to give a basic introduction.

- God, according to islamic belief.

- Why did he create man? And why all the suffering, the evil. Why is it here, if God can vanish it?

- What does this life mean to us?

- What is mankind's destiny?

Welcome aboard iSok

I strongly suggest you only start one thread as there is only one of you and many of us. Thus for each post you make you could end up with 5 replies (or more) if you start 4 threads you are gong to be looking at 20 replies to deal with, each of which could well result in 5 more replies thus within a matter of days you could be trying to cope with 100 replies. You won't be able to keep up in quantity or quality. You will thus become frustrated and upset by the sheer volume of work you will have to cope with.

If you hope to add and receive value then start one simple thread and stick to it until it is resolved.

Regards
Chris

[Tom62]

Hi ISok, welcome to the forum (and peace to you).

I think that there are different reasons, why people don't believe or no longer believe in God(s).

For me, it was a part of the growing up process. When I was young, I went to Catholic church with my father on Sunday. The church was impressive, the rituals were mysterious and all people were dressed up nicely, but what the priest was saying didn't make much sense to me. Every mass looked and sounded the same, so the novelty worn off pretty quickly and I got quickly bored.  At around the age of 10, I realized that going to church was for some people nothing more than a cultural tradition and for others a kind of social event. So, instead of listening to a rambling priest, I decided that my time was better spent on playing football.

Only a few years later I really started to think about the meaning of "Life, Universe and Everything". My answer to that question was not religion (nor 42  ) , but more like, enjoy and respect "Life", be in awe of the "Universe" and leave the "Everything" to the more philosophical and "spiritual" people. By comparing the different religions, I found out that they all had some good things in common, but also some bad traits (with perhaps Buddhism as the only exception). In any case, I just couldn't connect myself to their idea, that there were some mythical beings involved in the creation of the universe and that they would somehow care about what people think or do.

I have nothing against people, who do believe in God(s). I don't think that they are stupid or misguided. They've just came to an other conclusion than I did; and I respect them for that. Live in peace and harmony is my motto in life. I just happen to believe in one God less than you do. For the rest, we are indeed both brothers in humanity.

[Gawen]

Hello there (I come in peace),

Hello and welcome.

I just wondered, what are basically the argument of atheists that they do not believe in God?

- Is it because off lack of proof?
- Because how believers behave (christians, jews, muslims), and that their behaviour goes against your principles? (9/11, Palestine, Persection of muslims in christians in Indonesia)
- Because of the suffering and 'evil' in this world?
- Because of children who die at the age of 5 due to Leukemia?
- Because religion is evil, and makes people evil?

I guess there are more arguments, if so, please include them.

Most atheistic arguments are simply refutations of Theistic arguments.

Well, I hope I can start a discussion about Islam, and the view of Islam on life.
In my opinion, I think many people do not know how Islam answers these questions.
I think Islam also should have his turn, so people can evaluate it for themselves.

Want to know why I don't believe in Allah? Islam answers the same questions as Judeo/Christian gods do. Allah doesn't exist as I am sure Superman. Perhaps the total lack of evidence that magic actually exists. Gods are magical constructs and wield magical powers, such as creating everything from nothing for example. Magic does not exist and never has. Ergo gods do not exist.

Have at it. Give Allah his best shot.

[Asmodean]

I have no reason to believe in gods and yet I do have reasons not to believe in any god ever described to me, especially the Abrahamic one.

Gods are unnecessary and there is no evidence to support their existence, so why would I want to waste my mental capacity believing in them..?

[Cecilie]

so why would I want to waste my mental capacity believing in them..?

Something to do..?

[Asmodean]

Something to do..?

I think my mind is better spent contemplating new plot twists in my book  

[Gawen]

so why would I want to waste my mental capacity believing in them..?

Something to do..?

*laffin*....That struck me pretty funny.