Why are we here? - Islam

[Cecilie]

Something to do..?

I think my mind is better spent contemplating new plot twists in my book  

I'm sure the Bible has plot twists as well. Jesus becoming a zombie... Who saw that coming?

[Asmodean]

I'm sure the Bible has plot twists as well. Jesus becoming a zombie... Who saw that coming?

I did, for one... That one is ye old crappy variety zombie flake from page one.  

[iSok]

First of all, thank you so much for all the warm welcomes.
I have to say, I didn’t expect this kindness.

Existentialist
The reason I came here is to discuss about the believe in God
from Islamic perspective. With discussing this, I will give proof for the existence of God.
Yes it may be shocking that I think that there is proof, and you may think that I am deluted, but please bear with me till I have posted it.
I hope you can let me do that, it is for us individually to determine whether that proof is consistent.
I will post these points in my upcoming replies.

About the Islamic music, I understand you don’t mean culture-related, but rather religious ‘music’.
We don’t really call it music, but it is indeed mesmerising. I can give you a link to youtube, which is in my opinion is the most beautiful call to prayer I’ve heard so far (the adhan/azan).
Here’s the link:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAvlimEYEpQ   - I hope you’ll enjoy it.
The translation is included in the video description in case you are interested.

The second link: http://www.mounthira.com/index.php?a=downloads
On the page, download in audio section ‘Ayatul kursi’, A beautiful recitation.
It’s a verse from the Qur’an, which muslims regard as the most important.
In times of hardship muslims recite this verse to strengthen the soul.
If you do need more, please say so.

I will only use this topic regarding to Islam.

I’ll start regarding the first question.
Here we go.






- Who is God/Allah?

Well God/Allah are the same, muslims call God, Allah. The same God as the God of the christians and the jews. Why the name Allah? I can explain it, but I think I have a lot of basic info to give first.
We regard Allah as One, Eternal, Omnipotent, the First, the Last, nor is he Succeeded, nor is he Preceded.  Muslims regard Jezus Christ as messenger of Allah and do not believe in the trinity.


- The creation of Mankind.

I can explain this subject in detail, but I’ll try to give a summary.
We believe that angels do not possess an own will, they are creatures made of light to command the will of God. When God told the angels that He is going to put a vicegerent on Earth, the angels asked Him why He would do that? The angels asked: Why would you put a being on Earth which is going to spread corruption, evil and ignorance, while we already follow every command?
When Adam was created, God gave Adam intellect and reason. In the Qur’an it’s stated that God showed Adam the names of ‘things’. It’s unclear what these ‘things’ were. Some Islamic scholars suggest that He showed the best of mankind to Adam that would follow.
So God answered to the angels: Yes he can do evil deeds, but he can also do good things.

So up till now, Adam was created. He was given intellect, reason and an own will.
God told Adam and his wife that they are free to do whatever they want in the garden.
Except, eating from a certain tree. You all know the story and what happened next.
However this was not a bad thing, but this was an important step.
Eating from a tree that God forbade you, symbolizes mankind’s own will.
God was not angry or wrathful when that happened, that step was necessary, that is
the first time mankind used his own will.
After God told Adam that he would had to go to Earth to live there for a certain period, Adam was shocked. But God promised that He will guide him if he wants too and that there is nothing
to be afraid of.


- So what does this life mean?

According to Islamic believe, mankind did not commit some evil sin and this world is not regarded as an punishment. But it is necessary for our development. Development?

Well, in the womb you are physically developed, this world is meant for the development of your soul. The Qur’an tells us that we will suffer and that we should embrace it, since suffering will shape our soul. It tells us to be patient during times of hardship, when all the odds are against you, man needs to control himself, without losing his mind.
God’s spirit is in mankind we believe. Factors like Forgiving, Strong, Knowledge, Mercy, Love, Defender, Justice, Compassion, all of these factors within our soul come from a greater source, and that source is God.

And this life is meant for either growing that, or destroying that. You grow in these things by listening to your consciousness. The suffering, the evil in this world is meant for our development.
We cannot appreciate good, without seeing evil.
We cannot appreciate love, without losing it.
We cannot experience ‘strongness’, without suffering.
We cannot appreciate justice, without seeing corruption.

The Qur’an tells us from time to time: ‘You are here to grow..’
So in short, according to Islamic believes. This world is meant for our development, we can either grow towards God, but we can also ignore Him and do the opposite.
In either way we believe that God will not send you to ‘hell’ but you will send yourself to ‘hell’  by destroying your soul (doing things that you regard as ‘evil’ by your moral).
This world is the final stage of our creation, and our will plays a crucial role in our development.
We can eventually be better than angels but we can also be worse than ‘devils’.

- Is the Earth unique?

No, the Qur’an tells us that there is also life elsewhere, and that we will meet ‘them’ in the future.


I hope this makes some sense. If there are any questions, please then say so. I will try to answer as many as possible. In the next post, I will try to explain the four books a bit.
We believe all four came from God and many others. But the only book that stayed the
‘true word of God’ is the Qur’an.
(Torah, Psalms, New Testament, Qur’an)

Now you probably wonder how I got so much free time?

[LegendarySandwich]

I'm an atheist for a lot of the reasons you cited in your first post. The big reason is a lack of proof -- indeed, the Judeo-Christian God even has evidence against his existence; like the problem of evil, for example, which I've been discussing in this thread.

Until you can not only give me proof of Allah's existence, but reasons why the apparent contradictions and blatant absurdities aren't so, then I have every reason to reject him.

[iSok]

I'm an atheist for a lot of the reasons you cited in your first post. The big reason is a lack of proof -- indeed, the Judeo-Christian God even has evidence against his existence; like the problem of evil, for example, which I've been discussing in this thread.

Until you can not only give me proof of Allah's existence, but reasons why the apparent contradictions and blatant absurdities aren't so, then I have every reason to reject him.

Can you be more specific?
Did you read my post above? It explains why there is evil and why it has too exist.

[Tank]

I'm an atheist for a lot of the reasons you cited in your first post. The big reason is a lack of proof -- indeed, the Judeo-Christian God even has evidence against his existence; like the problem of evil, for example, which I've been discussing in this thread.

Until you can not only give me proof of Allah's existence, but reasons why the apparent contradictions and blatant absurdities aren't so, then I have every reason to reject him.

Can you be more specific?
Did you read my post above? It explains why there is evil and why it has too exist.

I can't believe you actually explained the existance of evil in a few lines. If you do then you really need to try a lot lot harder iSok.

[iSok]

I can't believe you actually explained the existance of evil in a few lines. If you do then you really need to try a lot lot harder iSok.

Well, I'm sorry for any misunderstandings.|
I did not study this matter in depth, I am reading about it.


I think evil is everything which goes against God's spirit in us.
What exactly that spirit means and what it is composed from, is stated in the Qur'an, through out it's verses.

- Compassion
- Knowledge
- Strong
- Justice
- Love
- Forgiving
- Caring
- Mercy
- Wise
- Patience
- Living
- Friend

and so on (99 of them in total) ...all come from the source, which is God. (the 99 names of God)
God's 100th name is 'Allah'.

This is a mere speculation..some won't even care.
On your left handpalm 81 is written in Arabic, your right palm has 18 written on it.
Combined is 99. We don't have the 100th name.


That what goes against these values = evil
Basically mankind needs evil to determine these values.
It needs to see evil, before it can distinguish between evil and good.

[Tank]

I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
 

[Velma]

I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
 

[LegendarySandwich]

We believe that angels do not possess an own will, they are creatures made of light to command the will of God. When God told the angels that He is going to put a vicegerent on Earth, the angels asked Him why He would do that? The angels asked: Why would you put a being on Earth which is going to spread corruption, evil and ignorance, while we already follow every command?

Good question. If God already made angels, beings who would follow his every command unquestioningly, then why would it be bad for humans to be like such? Why did he even want to make humans in the first place?

When Adam was created, God gave Adam intellect and reason.

Why, if they would use those abilities they gave him to make him angry?

In the Qur’an it’s stated that God showed Adam the names of ‘things’. It’s unclear what these ‘things’ were. Some Islamic scholars suggest that He showed the best of mankind to Adam that would follow.
So God answered to the angels: Yes he can do evil deeds, but he can also do good things.

Why would he want him to do bad deeds?

So up till now, Adam was created. He was given intellect, reason and an own will.
God told Adam and his wife that they are free to do whatever they want in the garden.
Except, eating from a certain tree. You all know the story and what happened next.
However this was not a bad thing, but this was an important step.
Eating from a tree that God forbade you, symbolizes mankind’s own will.
God was not angry or wrathful when that happened, that step was necessary, that is
the first time mankind used his own will.
After God told Adam that he would had to go to Earth to live there for a certain period, Adam was shocked. But God promised that He will guide him if he wants too and that there is nothing
to be afraid of.

I don't know how different the Koran version of the Genesis creation story is from the Bible's, because in the Bible, God was certainly angry at his creation's free will that he had given them.

- So what does this life mean?

According to Islamic believe, mankind did not commit some evil sin and this world is not regarded as an punishment. But it is necessary for our development. Development?

Well, in the womb you are physically developed, this world is meant for the development of your soul. The Qur’an tells us that we will suffer and that we should embrace it, since suffering will shape our soul. It tells us to be patient during times of hardship, when all the odds are against you, man needs to control himself, without losing his mind.

Why couldn't God have made it so that we can develop without suffering?

God’s spirit is in mankind we believe. Factors like Forgiving, Strong, Knowledge, Mercy, Love, Defender, Justice, Compassion, all of these factors within our soul come from a greater source, and that source is God.

What about people that don't believe in your god? Or any god at all?

And this life is meant for either growing that, or destroying that. You grow in these things by listening to your consciousness. The suffering, the evil in this world is meant for our development.

Some people are predisposed from birth to commit more "evil" than other people. What about people who don't have a conscious, or whose conscious tells them things that contradict the morals of the Koran? And, once again, why do we have to suffer to develop?

We cannot appreciate good, without seeing evil.
We cannot appreciate love, without losing it.
We cannot experience ‘strongness’, without suffering.
We cannot appreciate justice, without seeing corruption.

Again, why is this so? Why couldn't God have made it so that we can appreciate these things without seeing the opposite?

The Qur’an tells us from time to time: ‘You are here to grow..’
So in short, according to Islamic believes. This world is meant for our development, we can either grow towards God, but we can also ignore Him and do the opposite.

So, according to your book, I can live a great life, filled with happiness and helping other people, and growth in intellect, reason, and love, but reject your God because I do not see why I should believe in him...and I would have learned nothing?

In either way we believe that God will not send you to ‘hell’ but you will send yourself to ‘hell’  by destroying your soul

Bullshit. God made Hell, and he sends us to it.

(doing things that you regard as ‘evil’ by your moral).

Wait...you believe in subjective morality?  :secret:[/quote]
What's wrong? He seems like a nice guy.

[Velma]

I think evil is everything which goes against God's spirit in us.
What exactly that spirit means and what it is composed from, is stated in the Qur'an, through out it's verses.

You've gotten ahead of yourself.  You've not established the existence of God, or any deity for that matter.  You need to establish that a deity exists before you start making claims of what he, she, or is is doing.

[iSok]

You are probably frustrated about the 99 names?

please say so, what is in your heart
Even if that means insulting, comments like that won't solve anything.


Like I said, it's a speculation. You may not like it
But please, lets be open minded, even if that means that you think I've lost it.

Here's the link:
http://allahmiracles.sitesled.com/miracles/handsa123.jpg

[LegendarySandwich]

You are probably frustrated about the 99 names?

please say so, what is in your heart
Even if that means insulting, comments like that won't solve anything.


Like I said, it's a speculation. You may not like it
But please, lets be open minded, even if that means that you think I've lost it.

Here's the link:
http://allahmiracles.sitesled.com/miracles/handsa123.jpg

We aren't frustrated. We're just asking for evidence to back up your assertions.

When you say this is just speculation, do you mean that you have no proof for anything you say and you're just pulling it out of your ass?

[Tank]

I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.
I must be civil.

What's wrong? He seems like a nice guy.

I think I'll watch from the sidelines for the time being.

[Tank]

But please, lets be open minded, even if that means that you think I've lost it.

What will you do if you find your world view is wrong?