Why are we here? - Islam

[iSok]

Good question. If God already made angels, beings who would follow his every command unquestioningly, then why would it be bad for humans to be like such? Why did he even want to make humans in the first place?
Because some of us can be better than angels, because of our free will in this life.
We can choose ourselves for the good instead of God commanding us.
I think God needs to create, this question is indeed hard to answer.


Why, if they would use those abilities they gave him to make him angry?
He can also use those abilities to do good, two side of the coin.



Why would he want him to do bad deeds?
God does not force anyone to do bad deeds, we do bad deeds because of our own will.




I don't know how different the Koran version of the Genesis creation story is from the Bible's, because in the Bible, God was certainly angry at his creation's free will that he had given them.
In the Qur’an he wasn’t.




Some people are predisposed from birth to commit more "evil" than other people. What about people who don't have a conscious, or whose conscious tells them things that contradict the morals of the Koran? And, once again, why do we have to suffer to develop?
All of it will be taken into consideration, some may suffer from mental illness, they are not accountable.


Again, why is this so? Why couldn't God have made it so that we can appreciate these things without seeing the opposite?
Because then everyone would be programmed like robots. Now it’s our choice.
That’s the most important thing. Have you ever heard of a computer than can reason?


So, according to your book, I can live a great life, filled with happiness and helping other people, and growth in intellect, reason, and love, but reject your God because I do not see why I should believe in him...and I would have learned nothing?

No one knows how God will judge, he didn’t send down a book on how to weight things.
Yes there will be people who never got the message, that all will be taken into consideration.
It’s not ‘believe and do whatever you want’.


Bullshit. God made Hell, and he sends us to it.
Believing in God, means also believing in his morals  (the 99 aspects for example).
Do not believe (neglect those morals), yes you will destroy yourself.
I'll look up a verse from the Qur'an.
basically: 'Good comes from God, Evil from men'



...Why is Psalms regarded as a separate book? It's part of the Old Testament of the Bible.

Torah â€" Moses
Psalms â€" David
The New testament â€" Jezus Christ
Qur’an â€" Final prophet


Finally

The proof to God is the divine origin of the Qur’an.
I can proof it’s divine origin.

[iSok]

But please, lets be open minded, even if that means that you think I've lost it.

What will you do if you find your world view is wrong?

I will probably never find that out.
But if I did, I'd probably live according to the same values as I do now.
I have nothing to lose.

What will you do if you die and it turns out that there is an afterlife?

[LegendarySandwich]

Good question. If God already made angels, beings who would follow his every command unquestioningly, then why would it be bad for humans to be like such? Why did he even want to make humans in the first place?
Because some of us can be better than angels, because of our free will in this life.
We can choose ourselves for the good instead of God commanding us.
I think God needs to create, this question is indeed hard to answer.

Why can't we be better than angels and never sin? Why can't free will and the ability to never sin exist at the same time? Why is free will even a good thing?

God is omnipotent. He can do anything. He can make anything.

Why, if they would use those abilities they gave him to make him angry?
He can also use those abilities to do good, two side of the coin.

Yes, but why must there be two sides?

I will probably never find that out.
But if I did, I'd probably live according to the same values as I do now.
I have nothing to lose.

What will you do if you die and it turns out that there is an afterlife?

Well, you can find it out with reasonable certainty.
It depends on which version of the afterlife you mean.

Why would he want him to do bad deeds?
God does not force anyone to do bad deeds, we do bad deeds because of our own will.

Why does he let us, in other words?

I don't know how different the Koran version of the Genesis creation story is from the Bible's, because in the Bible, God was certainly angry at his creation's free will that he had given them.
In the Qur’an he wasn’t.

So, he didn't curse us and take away snakes' legs or anything?

Some people are predisposed from birth to commit more "evil" than other people. What about people who don't have a conscious, or whose conscious tells them things that contradict the morals of the Koran? And, once again, why do we have to suffer to develop?
All of it will be taken into consideration, some may suffer from mental illness, they are not accountable.

Fair enough -- but you still believe that belief in God/Allah is the most sure-fire way to get into Heaven, don't you?

Again, why is this so? Why couldn't God have made it so that we can appreciate these things without seeing the opposite?
Because then everyone would be programmed like robots. Now it’s our choice.
That’s the most important thing. Have you ever heard of a computer than can reason?

Why is it bad to be programmed like robots, like the angels? God can make a computer that can reason, can't he? He's omnipotent and all.

So, according to your book, I can live a great life, filled with happiness and helping other people, and growth in intellect, reason, and love, but reject your God because I do not see why I should believe in him...and I would have learned nothing?

No one knows how God will judge, he didn’t send down a book on how to weight things.
Yes there will be people who never got the message, that all will be taken into consideration.
It’s not ‘believe and do whatever you want’.

Fair enough.

Bullshit. God made Hell, and he sends us to it.
Believing in God, means also believing in his morals  (the 99 aspects for example).
Do not believe (neglect those morals), yes you will destroy yourself.
I'll look up a verse from the Qur'an.
basically: 'Good comes from God, Evil from men'

He's still the one sending you to Hell.

...Why is Psalms regarded as a separate book? It's part of the Old Testament of the Bible.

Torah â€" Moses
Psalms â€" David
The New testament â€" Jezus Christ
Qur’an â€" Final prophet

The New Testament wasn't written by Jesus, and the Torah wasn't written by Moses, but okay.

Finally

The proof to God is the divine origin of the Qur’an.
I can proof it’s divine origin.

That's the proof I'm asking for.

[Tank]

But please, lets be open minded, even if that means that you think I've lost it.

What will you do if you find your world view is wrong?

I will probably never find that out.
But if I did, I'd probably live according to the same values as I do now.
I have nothing to lose.

Fair enough.

What will you do if you die and it turns out that there is an afterlife?

Seriously? I'd ask Allah to explain why he's such an arsehole. I really would. He has fucked this world over and everybody on it since its creation, apparently for his own amusement.

[iSok]

The New Testament wasn't written by Jesus, and the Torah wasn't written by Moses, but okay.

Inspiration by their sayings.

He's still the one sending you to Hell.
Maybe if you don’t develop lungs in the womb you can’t breath here.
And if you don’t develop a certain amount of ‘goodness’. Maybe you can’t exist(breath) in heaven and hell is your place?



Fair enough -- but you still believe that belief in God/Allah is the most sure-fire way to get into Heaven, don't you?

Lifetime guarantee, that it’s the best way.
Believing means also, believing in God's morals.
I wish I had a free ticket, but I don't have.


Well, you can find it out with reasonable certainty.
It depends on which version of the afterlife you mean.

I mean the really ugly one


Why can't we be better than angels and never sin? Why can't free will and the ability to never sin exist at the same time? Why is free will even a good thing?

God is omnipotent. He can do anything. He can make anything.

Like I said before, because of our free will we will be individuals.
Believing in something which we are not commanded to, just asked too.

He’s already creating you, isn’t he? Experiencing this life is part of creation.
This life is the final stage for creation. It’s that you experience it slow.

[Velma]

You are probably frustrated about the 99 names?

please say so, what is in your heart
Even if that means insulting, comments like that won't solve anything.


Like I said, it's a speculation. You may not like it
But please, lets be open minded, even if that means that you think I've lost it.

Here's the link:
http://allahmiracles.sitesled.com/miracles/handsa123.jpg

I don't care how many names he has.  That is completely irrelevant to whether or not your deity exists.  Giving something a name doesn't mean it actually exists - fictional and mythical creatures with names abound.  Until you prove your deity exists, telling us how many names he has is just smoke and mirrors.

[iSok]

Well, like I said before.

I would start after the basic introdution.

A question I have.

- Did you ever read the Qur'an?

[Velma]

I've read a little bit of it.  However, I found it turgid and boring.  I keep telling myself I'll try it again, but it's hard to force myself to read something that dull.

[iSok]

I've read a little bit of it.  However, I found it turgid and boring.  I keep telling myself I'll try it again, but it's hard to force myself to read something that dull.

This is the best translation of the original Qur'an. -->http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php
Well, let me say this, if you read it sincere.
And you start with the intention: 'There's a possibility there's a truth here' and you ask sincere for guideness.
The Qur'an will crumble down every doubt you have, it's not blind faith.

Before I start with proving it's divine origin, some verses from the Qur'an I found inspiring.


“What We recite to you consists of signs and wise admonition.” [Qur’an 3:58]

“Did you imagine that We created you without any purpose, and that you will not be brought back to Us?" [Qur’an 23:115]

“Do they not reflect on themselves? Allah created the heavens and the earth and whatever lies between them in Truth and for an appointed term. Yet many people deny that they will meet their Lord.” [Qur’an 30:8]

“Soon shall We show them Our Signs on the horizons and in their own beings until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is a witness over everything?” [Qur’an 41:53]

“Human beings, We created you all from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most God-fearing of you. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.” [Qur’an 49:13]


Basically the Qur'an now and then speaks  of signs.
It continuosly  asks us to reason, to think, and to see some of it signs.

Furthermore the Qur'an is timeless. Some of it's verses we do not understand
and do not know what they mean. We didn't understand some verses a while back
but now we do.

I'll give an example of it soon.

[Gawen]

I think I'll watch from the sidelines for the time being.

4 minutes later

What will you do if you find your world view is wrong?

*laffin*

[Tank]

I think I'll watch from the sidelines for the time being.

4 minutes later

What will you do if you find your world view is wrong?

*laffin*

I lasted 4 minutes! A whole 4 minutes!

[Gawen]

This is the best translation of the original Qur'an.

You need to read the King James version of the Koran. All other translations were written by Satan.

[LegendarySandwich]

I've read a little bit of it.  However, I found it turgid and boring.  I keep telling myself I'll try it again, but it's hard to force myself to read something that dull.

This is the best translation of the original Qur'an. -->http://www.islamicstudies.info/tafheem.php
Well, let me say this, if you read it sincere.
And you start with the intention: 'There's a possibility there's a truth here' and you ask sincere for guideness.
The Qur'an will crumble down every doubt you have, it's not blind faith.

Before I start with proving it's divine origin, some verses from the Qur'an I found inspiring.


“What We recite to you consists of signs and wise admonition.” [Qur’an 3:58]

“Did you imagine that We created you without any purpose, and that you will not be brought back to Us?" [Qur’an 23:115]

“Do they not reflect on themselves? Allah created the heavens and the earth and whatever lies between them in Truth and for an appointed term. Yet many people deny that they will meet their Lord.” [Qur’an 30:8]

“Soon shall We show them Our Signs on the horizons and in their own beings until it becomes clear to them that it is the Truth. Is it not enough that your Lord is a witness over everything?” [Qur’an 41:53]

“Human beings, We created you all from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another. Verily the noblest of you in the sight of Allah is the most God-fearing of you. Surely Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.” [Qur’an 49:13]


Basically the Qur'an now and then speaks  of signs.
It continuosly  asks us to reason, to think, and to see some of it signs.

Furthermore the Qur'an is timeless. Some of it's verses we do not understand
and do not know what they mean. We didn't understand some verses a while back
but now we do.

I'll give an example of it soon.

I've read the Bible, and I didn't find it the inspired Word of God. Far from it, actually. I doubt that the Koran will be different -- especially from what I've heard of it already. One of these days, I might take the time to actually go read it on Skeptic's Annotated Notes, though.

[Gawen]

Seriously though, my understanding is that there can be no "best" translation of the Koran, because all translations are a corruption of the true Koran. The Koran can only be truly read in the original Arabic, which could be a bit of a problem because the Arabic in which the Koran is written is so archaic that somewhere around 10% of the book can no longer be read by modern readers of the Koran. Even scholars are just guessing at original meanings by working from the context. Ancient Arabic writing used NO vowels.
What's wrong with this translation?
http://al-quran.info/default.aspx?x=y#& ... i&ver=2.00
Or this one?
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/index.php
What's wrong with the Pickthal and Shakir translations?
How about these 33 translations?
http://islamawakened.org/Quran/

At any rate, I've tried that route. After reading a few Suras I'll wager ones reaction will be, "How can anyone believe this crap?" It sounds impossible, but the Koran is even more boring, tedious and uninspiring than the Bible.

[LegendarySandwich]

At any rate, I've tried that route. After reading a few Suras I'll wager ones reaction will be, "How can anyone believe this crap?" It sounds impossible, but the Koran is even more boring, tedious and uninspiring than the Bible.

...Oh God. Seriously?