Why Did God Have to Make Evil?

[AnimatedDirt]

Another point - is an omniscient/omnipotent god necessarily continuously omniscient? I.e., can he turn omniscience off as he chooses? If so, then there are more scenarios to consider.

If it is by nature, I would say He can't turn it off.  By that scenario one could conclude He could simply turn off His Righteousness and omni-Judgeness and simply wave a wand and deem all perfect.

It is therefore my conclusion that God cannot simply turn on and off that which makes Him God.

Then it's not a defining characteristic of his nature, as Jesus plainly said there were some things that he didn't know - unless you deny the divinity of Christ?

Great point.  I was thinking about this last night.  While it is true, Jesus, was able to lay down some nature of God, omnipresent, (and omniscience seemingly on one point specifically that comes to mind) it was that God took on physical form or created form.
I do not deny the divinity of Christ.  Christ was fully God and fully Man.

My above point was speaking of God as in God the Father...as a Trinity, in His/its natural form and function.

[TheJackel]

[Voter]

Possibly. If an entity is omniscient now, that does not necessarily imply that it has continuously been omniscient. I raised that topic in my main post.

Fail, you are now pleading a contradiction. It either is or isn't! make up your mind .

Why must omniscience be continual? Can you give a reason, rather than (or at least in addition to) pronouncements of failure?

[TheJackel]

Possibly. If an entity is omniscient now, that does not necessarily imply that it has continuously been omniscient. I raised that topic in my main post.

Fail, you are now pleading a contradiction. It either is or isn't! make up your mind :|  So where does all that information GO Voter? It magically falls out of your deities head and on to the floor? And what purpose would that server anyways :drool  Must evolve again!... Sounds an awful lot like existence itself and everything that makes up existence to me to where you are arguing that it would only finitely know everything as currently is. Even then you are arguing for Solipsism! That however would defy Omniscient entity to infinitely know everything infinitely!. Especially when you try and argue something to be eternal and not bound to time to where it would be the eternal future and past.


Regardless, what makes a GOD not a GOD voter is the very fact that it's slave to require many of those things on that list I gave you. It's the substance to which all things are made of and require that is the source origin of existence. The substance of existence itself. This is why no mind can solve infinite regress or ever be the source origin as to why things are here, and why existence exists!. It's what we and everything else is made of to which can be considered the GOD element of existence.. We all require and are slave to those very same rules in order to exist.

So yes, there is no such thing as consciousness without cause

[Voter]

Because if it's not.. How does one thing go from being infinitely everything to a finite something?

First, it's a matter of knowledge, not being, unless you want to support your claim that energy and information are one and the same.

Second, don't you understand the meaning of the word omnipotent?

And worse you are making the argument that your so called GOD goes from being a GOD to not being a GOD and back again as if that makes any logical sense.

No I don't, unless you support that a god must necessarily be continually omniscient.

[Voter]

Great point.  I was thinking about this last night.  While it is true, Jesus, was able to lay down some nature of God, omnipresent, (and omniscience seemingly on one point specifically that comes to mind) it was that God took on physical form or created form.
I do not deny the divinity of Christ.  Christ was fully God and fully Man.

My above point was speaking of God as in God the Father...as a Trinity, in His/its natural form and function.

Personally I don't logically see why God couldn't completely lay aside omniscience for a time. However, I don't think that happened. I put it out there as one possible explanation, but I think some of the others are better.

[iSok]

Why do you think it's bad to do anything of the sort at all?

See my topic 'Why are we here? - Islam'

The reaction was simple I believe in the answer that those could all simply be rendered non-existent, especially when Free will is already a Logical Fallacy anyways. Apparently theists think a supposed all Powerful and Omniscient being is in capable of creating a Universe of pure bliss! Right there contradicts Power and Omniscience.

Once again, see my topic.

Neither here answered the paradoxes ore even remotely addressed them. In fact both your answers completely avoided doing so.  Your first answer was an excuse/deflection entirely to which is shown as an admission that yourself is not capable of addressing the argument what-so-ever. The second answer actually contradicts Omniscience entirely and thus fails  entirely.

First of all, do you acknowledge that the human intellect has limits?
Second, why do you imply that a paradox invented by humans would also be applicable to God?

I really don't understand what you're saying, you did not respond to my answer at all.
Actually you ignored my respond by not even quoting parts. just saying 'you're ignoring me'.

Irrelavent to the argument entirely!

Why? Explain. My human interpretations are irrelevant but yours are towards God?

And I most certainly can use this paradox for your supposed GOD because I just did!.

I missed something...

Not our problem that you can't handle dealing with direct Contradictions that are impossible logical fallacies! It's the same logical fallacy that Theists make when they say their GOD transcends material-physicality and is magically non-material Hence the NOTHING made of NOTHING! GOD  :raised:

Not about the paradox anymore, but jumping to other subjects. I am not following you anymore.

Give a more clear respond, I am not following you at all.
Somehow you apply limits of human logic like you can't be positive and negative at the same time on God.
This is no argument....

[LegendarySandwich]

Why do you think it's bad to do anything of the sort at all?

See my topic 'Why are we here? - Islam'

The reaction was simple I believe in the answer that those could all simply be rendered non-existent, especially when Free will is already a Logical Fallacy anyways. Apparently theists think a supposed all Powerful and Omniscient being is in capable of creating a Universe of pure bliss! Right there contradicts Power and Omniscience.

Once again, see my topic.

Neither here answered the paradoxes ore even remotely addressed them. In fact both your answers completely avoided doing so.  Your first answer was an excuse/deflection entirely to which is shown as an admission that yourself is not capable of addressing the argument what-so-ever. The second answer actually contradicts Omniscience entirely and thus fails  entirely.

First of all, do you acknowledge that the human intellect has limits?
Second, why do you imply that a paradox invented by humans would also be applicable to God?

I really don't understand what you're saying, you did not respond to my answer at all.
Actually you ignored my respond by not even quoting parts. just saying 'you're ignoring me'.

Irrelavent to the argument entirely!

Why? Explain. My human interpretations are irrelevant but yours are towards God?

And I most certainly can use this paradox for your supposed GOD because I just did!.

I missed something...

Not our problem that you can't handle dealing with direct Contradictions that are impossible logical fallacies! It's the same logical fallacy that Theists make when they say their GOD transcends material-physicality and is magically non-material Hence the NOTHING made of NOTHING! GOD  :raised:

Not about the paradox anymore, but jumping to other subjects. I am not following you anymore.

Give a more clear respond, I am not following you at all.
Somehow you apply limits of human logic like you can't be positive and negative at the same time on God.

So, you're saying that God is above all human logic and intellect. Why? He made us, supposedly in his image to boot -- why would he make it so that we couldn't understand him at all? Furthermore, why wouldn't he make himself fit into the rules of logic, rules he made?

Why would you try to understand a being that can't be understood? Why bother worshiping it?

[AnimatedDirt]

lol  You have done no such thing. Saying you did does not magically make is so :blink:

What I think is funny is that you're so blind as to not see the comedic irony in that you did the same thing a page or two back, got a few pats on the back from some individuals, then claim the opposite for me when I do as you did but where you're not completely correct, I am.

The fact is, omniscience has been addressed.  It has not been avoided.  Infinite knowledge does not preclude a being with absolute freewill, freewill/free choice.  

If God is omni- then He has the power and the knowledge to create a being with absolute freewill.  The failure is not in the Creator, but in the agent that is able to choose death over life.  God created a perfect freewill agent.  That is no mistake.  That Evil entered into creation actively and didn't remain conceptual, isn't the "will" of God that it happen, but a natural by-product of a freewill agent (that God set out to make and did so perfectly) that isn't God AND that doesn't have knowledge of Good and Evil.  His omnipotence shines through that He is able to reconcile this freewill agent BACK to Himself (legally) even though the agent is tainted.  His omnilove shines through in that God Himself pays the penalty of evil to do so.

[Voter]

lol  You have done no such thing. Saying you did does not magically make is so :blink:

What I think is funny is that you're so blind as to not see the comedic irony in that you did the same thing a page or two back, got a few pats on the back from some individuals, then claim the opposite for me when I do as you did but where you're not completely correct, I am.

The fact is, omniscience has been addressed.  It has not been avoided.  Infinite knowledge does not preclude a being with absolute freewill, freewill/free choice.     That Evil entered into creation actively and didn't remain conceptual, isn't the "will" of God that it happen, but a natural by-product of a freewill agent (that God set out to make and did so perfectly) that isn't God AND that doesn't have knowledge of Good and Evil.  His omnipotence shines through that He is able to reconcile this freewill agent BACK to Himself (legally) even though the agent is tainted. :yay:

I formatted it in a way he might better understand.

[Gawen]

Why must omniscience be continual? Can you give a reason, rather than (or at least in addition to) pronouncements of failure?

Talk about splitting hairs...

[Gawen]

If God is omni- then He has the power and the knowledge to create a being with absolute freewill.  The failure is not in the Creator, but in the agent that is able to choose death over life.  God created a perfect freewill agent.  That is no mistake.  

The Bible does not support this view.

[AnimatedDirt]

If God is omni- then He has the power and the knowledge to create a being with absolute freewill.  The failure is not in the Creator, but in the agent that is able to choose death over life.  God created a perfect freewill agent.  That is no mistake.  

The Bible does not support this view.

The tree is the support, the entering of pride is THE support.

[Gawen]

If God is omni- then He has the power and the knowledge to create a being with absolute freewill.  The failure is not in the Creator, but in the agent that is able to choose death over life.  God created a perfect freewill agent.  That is no mistake.  

The Bible does not support this view.

The tree is the support, the entering of pride is THE support.

I don't know. The Hebrew Bible lays it all down. It's pretty much cut and dried. It seems to me with your "The Way" religion, you have created for yourselves a false Yahweh. Obviously such a group has a deep seated hatred against the True Yahweh of the Jews...

[Voter]

Why must omniscience be continual? Can you give a reason, rather than (or at least in addition to) pronouncements of failure?

Talk about splitting hairs...

No, let's talk about the several arguments I put up in refutation of your position.