Why Did God Have to Make Evil?

[AnimatedDirt]

Yeah, the bible portrays god as a bloodthirsty, narcissistic, evil thing.

This is your interpretation, but when you think about it, removing your apparent "I hate God Goggles", then you can see that where there is only light, darkness is not.  Can darkness exist where light is?  If you're in a closed room and you light a candle, does the room remain pitch dark?  That is why the scriptures SEEM to suggest God created evil.

...I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I, the LORD, do all these things.

[Cite134]

God is omnibelevolent, all-good, and omniscient yet he can't create something that can be all good too? Just doesn't make sense.

The Bible doesn't portray God as being omnibenevolent.

So he has some evil in him?  

[elliebean]

Has it not yet occurred to anyone that evil doesn't exist? That is to say that "evil" is not a thing; nor can a thing in itself be an "evil". It's best to use the word as an adjective; it's used as a noun the same way "badness" would be used as a noun - that is, not very meaningfully, except in a comparative sense (ie. the relative evils of smoking cigarettes vs. cigars, for example). Events and actions can have "evil' outcomes, which essentially means things happen that we don't all like. That's it.

[LegendarySandwich]

Has it not yet occurred to anyone that evil doesn't exist? That is to say that "evil" is not a thing; nor can a thing in itself be an "evil". It's best to use the word as an adjective; it's used as a noun the same way "badness" would be used as a noun - that is, not very meaningfully, except in a comparative sense (ie. the relative evils of smoking cigarettes vs. cigars, for example). Events and actions can have "evil' outcomes, which essentially means things happen that we don't all like. That's it.

Of course, Ellie, but we're dealing with Christians here, who believe that evil = sin, and that sin is an actual thing.

[LegendarySandwich]

Yeah, the bible portrays god as a bloodthirsty, narcissistic, evil thing.

This is your interpretation, but when you think about it, removing your apparent "I hate God Goggles", then you can see that where there is only light, darkness is not.  Can darkness exist where light is?  If you're in a closed room and you light a candle, does the room remain pitch dark?  That is why the scriptures SEEM to suggest God created evil.

...I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Why couldn't God have made it so that his "lightness" could still shine without their being darkness?

[Gawen]

Ya beat me to it Ellie.

That is why the scriptures SEEM to suggest God created evil.

Isaiah 45:6,7 NIV wrote:...
I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Does not say:
It seems I am the LORD, and there seems there is no other.
t seems I form the light and create darkness,
It seems I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I, the LORD, seem to do all these things.

Is God good or evil?
Psalm 145:9: "The Lord is good to all."
Deuteronomy 32:4: "a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."
vs.
Isaiah 45:7: "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."  
Lamentations 3:38: "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"
Jeremiah 18:11: "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you."
Ezekiel 20:25,26: "I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord."

Does God tempt people?
James 1:13: "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
vs.
Genesis 22:1: "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."

Is God peaceable?
Romans 15:33: "The God of peace."
Isaiah 2:4: ". . . and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
vs.
Exodus 15:3: "The Lord is a man of war."
Joel 3:9-10: "Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong."

Is God omnipotent?
Jeremiah 32:27: "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?
Matthew 19:26: "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
vs.
Judges 1:19: "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

Does God live in light?
I Timothy 6:15-16: " . . . the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach . . ."
James 1:17: " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
John 12:35: "Then Jesus saith unto them, . . . he that walketh in darkness knoweth not wither he goeth."
Job 18:18: "He [the wicked] shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world."
Daniel 2:22: "He [God] knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him." See also Psalm 143:3, II Corinthians 6:14, and Hebrews 12:18-22.
vs.
I Kings 8:12: "Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." ( II Chronicles 6:1)
II Samuel 22:12 "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies."
Psalm 18:11: "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies."
Psalm 97:1-2: "The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice . . . clouds and darkness are round about him."

[LegendarySandwich]

Ya beat me to it Ellie.

That is why the scriptures SEEM to suggest God created evil.

Isaiah 45:6,7 NIV wrote:...
I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I, the LORD, do all these things.

Does not say:
It seems I am the LORD, and there seems there is no other.
t seems I form the light and create darkness,
It seems I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I, the LORD, seem to do all these things.

Is God good or evil?
Psalm 145:9: "The Lord is good to all."
Deuteronomy 32:4: "a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he."
vs.
Isaiah 45:7: "I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things."  
Lamentations 3:38: "Out of the mouth of the most High proceedeth not evil and good?"
Jeremiah 18:11: "Thus saith the Lord; Behold, I frame evil against you, and devise a device against you."
Ezekiel 20:25,26: "I gave them also statutes that were not good, and judgments whereby they should not live. And I polluted them in their own gifts, in that they caused to pass through the fire all that openeth the womb, that I might make them desolate, to the end that they might know that I am the Lord."

Does God tempt people?
James 1:13: "Let no man say . . . I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man."
vs.
Genesis 22:1: "And it came to pass after these things, that God did tempt Abraham."

Is God peaceable?
Romans 15:33: "The God of peace."
Isaiah 2:4: ". . . and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."
vs.
Exodus 15:3: "The Lord is a man of war."
Joel 3:9-10: "Prepare war, wake up the mighty men, let all the men of war draw near; let them come up: Beat your plowshares into swords, and your pruninghooks into spears: let the weak say, I am strong."

Is God omnipotent?
Jeremiah 32:27: "Behold, I am the Lord, the God of all flesh: is there anything too hard for me?
Matthew 19:26: "But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible."
vs.
Judges 1:19: "And the Lord was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron."

Does God live in light?
I Timothy 6:15-16: " . . . the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach . . ."
James 1:17: " . . . the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning."
John 12:35: "Then Jesus saith unto them, . . . he that walketh in darkness knoweth not wither he goeth."
Job 18:18: "He [the wicked] shall be driven from light into darkness, and chased out of the world."
Daniel 2:22: "He [God] knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with him." See also Psalm 143:3, II Corinthians 6:14, and Hebrews 12:18-22.
vs.
I Kings 8:12: "Then spake Solomon, The Lord said that he would dwell in the thick darkness." ( II Chronicles 6:1)
II Samuel 22:12 "And he made darkness pavilions round about him, dark waters, and thick clouds of the skies."
Psalm 18:11: "He made darkness his secret place; his pavilion round about him were dark waters and thick clouds of the skies."
Psalm 97:1-2: "The Lord reigneth; let the earth rejoice . . . clouds and darkness are round about him."

Silly Gawen, you're just interpreting it wrong.

[AnimatedDirt]

Silly Gawen, you're just interpreting it wrong.

See...I didn't have to say anything.

[LegendarySandwich]

Silly Gawen, you're just interpreting it wrong.

See...I didn't have to say anything.

I love making the other side's arguments for them.

[Sophus]

Yeah, the bible portrays god as a bloodthirsty, narcissistic, evil thing.

This is your interpretation, but when you think about it, removing your apparent "I hate God Goggles", then you can see that where there is only light, darkness is not.  Can darkness exist where light is?  If you're in a closed room and you light a candle, does the room remain pitch dark?  That is why the scriptures SEEM to suggest God created evil.

...I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I, the LORD, do all these things.

I don't see the fake Einstein explanation as being a suitable analogy for the creation story, or story of the Fall. Even in a non-literal sense why would God give Adam and Eve a moral dilemma without first giving them knowledge of right and wrong? The result is predicable even to a mere mortal like myself.

[AnimatedDirt]

Silly Gawen, you're just interpreting it wrong.

See...I didn't have to say anything.

I love making the other side's arguments for them.

Yes, thank you.  If then the interpretation is wrong, the whole idea derived from that interpretation is wrong.

A text without context is a pretext.  I guess Legendary Sandwich understands this well and thus the list of pretexts Gawen lists does nothing to support his/her claim.

[AnimatedDirt]

I don't see the fake Einstein explanation as being a suitable analogy for the creation story, or story of the Fall. Even in a non-literal sense why would God give Adam and Eve a moral dilemma without first giving them knowledge of right and wrong? The result is predicable even to a mere mortal like myself.

The moral dilemma is the knowledge of right and wrong.

[LegendarySandwich]

Yeah, the bible portrays god as a bloodthirsty, narcissistic, evil thing.

This is your interpretation, but when you think about it, removing your apparent "I hate God Goggles", then you can see that where there is only light, darkness is not.  Can darkness exist where light is?  If you're in a closed room and you light a candle, does the room remain pitch dark?  That is why the scriptures SEEM to suggest God created evil.

...I am the LORD, and there is no other.
I form the light and create darkness,
I bring prosperity and create disaster,
I, the LORD, do all these things.

I don't see the fake Einstein explanation as being a suitable analogy for the creation story, or story of the Fall. Even in a non-literal sense why would God give Adam and Eve a moral dilemma without first giving them knowledge of right and wrong? The result is predicable even to a mere mortal like myself.

That's not even the most troubling part of the Genesis creation story, to me. Not only did God deliberately place a tree in the garden that would "make them die" when they had no knowledge of good and evil, and he knew they would since he's omniscient and all, but the result of eating from that tree was knowledge of good and evil. So God punished them for seeking knowledge (he also punished them for being tricked by a being he created too...the absurdities continue).

[LegendarySandwich]

Yes, thank you.  If then the interpretation is wrong, the whole idea derived from that interpretation is wrong.

A text without context is a pretext.  I guess Legendary Sandwich understands this well and thus the list of pretexts Gawen lists does nothing to support his/her claim.

Why wouldn't God take some extra steps to make sure his message was clear and easily understandable?

[AnimatedDirt]

That's not even the most troubling part of the Genesis creation story, to me. Not only did God deliberately place a tree in the garden that would "make them die" when they had no knowledge of good and evil, and he knew they would since he's omniscient and all, but the result of eating from that tree was knowledge of good and evil. So God punished them for seeking knowledge (he also punished them for being tricked by a being he created too...the absurdities continue).

Likewise it is so absurd that humans procreate with full knowledge of death coming to all...logic amazes me.