Santa Clause Atheism.

[Whitney]

I just can't live with myself doing it. Doesn't feel right. But maybe Santa is real.

 

[LARA]

Santa belief is a common topic of discussion in our household this year.  I am trying to be understanding, but my daughter is a bit of a Santa fundamentalist.  I definitely don't want to take the asshat route described previously, but my DD keeps asking me questions about Santa that I just can't answer.  I accidentally said something about penguins living at the North Pole with Santa and got into the following conversation.

What I really want to know is if Santa is real, why can't there be penguins at the North Pole?  

My DD says "No! Because penguins only live in the Southern hemisphere."  

It's an ongoing debate.  After awhile it can be annoying.


edited for clarity and background info

[AnimatedDirt]

But it's so much more than that. When children learn the truth of the Santa myth, they learn that the spirit of giving can live in only one place - inside themselves. If there's no magical figure to take care of everything, guess who has to do the hard work? We do! Knowing the truth about Santa means you have a lot more personal responsibility when it comes to Christmas. That's the message. And it isn't limited to the Santa myth. Not believing in God means you have a lot more personal responsibility when it comes to your life and the world you find yourself in.

I'm not quite sure how this relates to the degree of personal responsibility on the Christian, let alone anyone.

Might you elaborate for me on this matter before I jump to a conclusion, please.

[Heretical Rants]

I might be way off base here, but I think he´s saying that a it's easier, but less desirable, to follow a predefined set of moral guidelines.

It only applies to you if you follow someone else's system of morality to the letter and never bother to figure anything out for yourself. I doubt that this is the case.

He's also saying that, just like Santa doesn't hand out presents, God doesn't help you out so much, either(at least in this life).... but God helps those who help themselves, right?

[KebertX]

But it's so much more than that. When children learn the truth of the Santa myth, they learn that the spirit of giving can live in only one place - inside themselves. If there's no magical figure to take care of everything, guess who has to do the hard work? We do! Knowing the truth about Santa means you have a lot more personal responsibility when it comes to Christmas. That's the message. And it isn't limited to the Santa myth. Not believing in God means you have a lot more personal responsibility when it comes to your life and the world you find yourself in.

I'm not quite sure how this relates to the degree of personal responsibility on the Christian, let alone anyone.

Might you elaborate for me on this matter before I jump to a conclusion, please.

You believe in God, so you think that the reason to be a good person is to please God.  We don't believe in God.  We believe the reason to be good is a matter of personal responsibility.  For you, Kindness is a means to an end.  For us, kindness is not a means, it is an end.  The object of kindness is kindness.  Isn't it more moral to do good out of altruism than a greed for a seat in heaven?

As for Santa: Sure when you're little you can believe that selfless giving is something that comes from an omnipotent magic man.  Because magic is nice for kids.  But when you learn Santa isn't real, you find that the true spirit of Christmas was actually inside yourself all along. Santa Claus lives in your heart, not in an icy workshop up north.

Christmas is so much more beautiful when you realize, it's not magic coming from outside, it's just good people being kind to one another.

And buying each other useless shit.

[AnimatedDirt]

You believe in God, so you think that the reason to be a good person is to please God.

No, being good is natural in a rational species.

We don't believe in God.  We believe the reason to be good is a matter of personal responsibility.

This proves my point above.

For you, Kindness is a means to an end.  For us, kindness is not a means, it is an end.  The object of kindness is kindness.  Isn't it more moral to do good out of altruism than a greed for a seat in heaven?

Not greed at all.  Have you read the parts in the Bible about salvation?  The reason one is "good" (including kindness, etc.) is not FOR a gain, but out of gratitude for what has been done for one.  A 'seat' in heaven is certainly part of the reward, but if the motivation is greed, then as the Scripture says,

I know your deeds, that you are neither cold nor hot. I wish you were either one or the other! So, because you are lukewarm--neither hot nor cold--I am about to spit you out of my mouth.

Who, btw, having greed as their only basis for "good" will endure persecution from others for the sake of greed?  I highly doubt it.
Likewise, not every person claiming to be Christian will be saved.

"Not everyone who says to me, `Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.  Many will say to me on that day, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?'  Then I will tell them plainly, `I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'

I don't mean for this to be preachy, but rather to make the point that a true Christian is not motivated by greed, as you seem to suggest.

As for Santa: Sure when you're little you can believe that selfless giving is something that comes from an omnipotent magic man.  Because magic is nice for kids.  But when you learn Santa isn't real, you find that the true spirit of Christmas was actually inside yourself all along. Santa Claus lives in your heart, not in an icy workshop up north.

Christmas is so much more beautiful when you realize, it's not magic coming from outside, it's just good people being kind to one another.

And buying each other useless shit.

Change a few nouns and pronouns here and you have the Christian reason for celebrating Christmas and for doing good.

[Guardian85]

I say let kids be kids. In their own good time they will figure the truth out. In the meantime don't be an ass by spoiling their fun.
Don't take the magic of imagination and fairytales away from nine year old girls. Or boys for that matter.

[Ubi Dubium]

Santa is a great exercise in rational thinking.  When my daughters were little, we went ahead and had the fun of the Santa Myth.  But I never spent a lot of time trying to persuade them that it was true.  We took them to see Santa, the presents appeared under the tree, all the good parts.  As they got older, and my daughters would ask me "Mom, is Santa real?" and my reply would always be "Well, what do you think?"  For as long as their answer was "I think he's real" then I would just say "OK" and drop the conversation.  As soon as their answer was "I think maybe he's not" then I'd start into getting them to explain why they thought what they did.

My oldest daughter was suspicious of the Tooth Fairy before figuing out Santa.  So she did an experiment.  She put a lost tooth under her pillow and didn't tell anybody.  Next morning, her tooth was still there and no money.  That clinched it for her, and she then asked me to confirm her discovery.  Once I did, that was it for Santa and the Easter Bunny as well.  She also agreed with me that it would not be fair to tell her younger sister yet, that she should be allowed to figure it out on her own.

Now, I need to add this picture:

[Thumpalumpacus]

.... that a true Christian ....

I wonder how many say that about you?

No matter your apologetics, the fact is that you assign labels like "True Christian" or "False Christian" based solely on human judgment.  

When you understand your own fallibility, you'll be that much closer to forgiving it in others.  And when you forgive it in others, you'll erase a little more of it in yourself.

You really should be better than this.

[philosoraptor]

I was a dubious child when it came to Santa, God, the Easter Bunny, and the Tooth Fairy-I wanted REAL LIVING PROOF.  One year, I hid myself in a cardboard box in the living room, covered in a blanket to catch Santa.  And of course I fell asleep, because shit..I was like 6 and and sugar crashed from the 8,000 Christmas cookies I had eaten.  Getting tired of doing my own research, I asked one of the older kids that I rode the school bus with and they confirmed what I suspected-they was no Santa.  When I told my parents I knew Sana wasn't real, they just told me to keep my mouth shut about it, so as not to ruin it for my younger brother.  And then my grandma told him a year later anyway, and my mom didn't talk to her for months because she was so pissed.

Yeah, I think it's fucked for an adult to ruin that magic for a child.  Life is hard enough once we grow up, and I think kids should be able to hold onto that sense of the strange and incredible for as long as they can.  Reality will ruin it at some point-no need to rush the process.  It's really a parent's responsibility to decide when the Santa myth has gone far enough, not some other random person.  Unlike a false belief in God, I can't really think of any dire consequences that would arise as a result of allowing children to believe in Santa-certainly nothing that would necessitate a rude awakening from an angry atheist.  What that guy did to the 9 year old just sounds mean and spiteful, and that's really not cool to do to a child in any context.

[LegendarySandwich]

I never once believer in Santa Clause, the Tooth Fairy, or any other mythical creature that kids believe in when they are young. My parents simply never lied to me about them. Looking back now, I wonder if that was a good thing or a bad thing. Eh.

[rawrdog822]

Ya that's definitely messed up.  Santa is one of those magical things that children love, and that experience should not be taken away in such a horrible way.  There is a time and a place for the child's parents to tell her the truth, but for some angry guy to just yell at her and break it like that is horrible.

I've often questioned whether or not I want to celebrate Christmas when I have children.  I think I would like to though.  I won't make it all religious or anything like that, but I would just feel like I was keeping my kids from experiencing something I got the opportunity to experience when I was a kid.  Christmas was always the best.

[ForTheLoveOfAll]

There are some heretics around here trying to make unclean the most holy Santa by using a giant PVC Pipe slingshot every year to try and knock him off of their chimney. (I shit you not!)
But! With his infinite wisdom and ever mysterious ways, he has avoided them every year!

All hail Santa Claus!

[father nicetouch]

Well, im about to have a baby girl! And Im very excited! My wife and i have talked about how to raise our kids. She is a christian just to let you guys know. We have talked about the santa clause thing. I told her we should not take that bit of joy out of the kid! When she gets older she should pick on her own if either she wants to believe or not! When i was growing up i never got gifts in christmas because my parents are christians and said it was about Jesus and not gifts. When i moved out i never celebrated it. But now that im going to have a family i want my little girl to feel that happiness that i never had! Its just for the kids! For them to have fun! When they get older they can deside for themself what to believe. And i think its the same with religion! Im not say don't teach them what you believe. I'm just saying do not force them to believe it!