How long is this chain?

[tymygy]

First of all, this is my first post, so go easy I'm new.  

Second, I'm sick of creationists and I.D.iots saying that science has found no transistional fossils.

Ever after I show pictures, tell the names and show the dates they lived their ignorance still says "God made it that way"AND theres no transitions between transitional species A and transitional Species B.

So, I guess I made this topic to ask all others who have debated with these types of creationists, how do you get your point across this barrier of stupidity and complete disregard of scientific proof?

[hackenslash]

You don't. Don't try and discuss with creationists. Talk past them to the people in the cheap seats, and simply see that the cretinists' guff doesn't go unchallenged. If you're trying to change the mind of a dyed-in-the-wool cretinist, you've already lost. The very best you can hope to acheive is planting a seed of doubt that might kick in later.

[epepke]

I've been trying to get the following known as Gish's Law for about fifteen years, without much success:

"Any discovered transitional form creates two new undiscovered ones."

[Tank]

You don't. Don't try and discuss with creationists. Talk past them to the people in the cheap seats, and simply see that the cretinists' guff doesn't go unchallenged. If you're trying to change the mind of a dyed-in-the-wool cretinist, you've already lost. The very best you can hope to acheive is planting a seed of doubt that might kick in later.

Hack is absolutely 100% correct. Creationists and extreme 'woo' merchants are a lost cause. They live in their own minds and have a self fulfilling circular reasoning that it is so close to self delusional as makes no difference. The only thing you can do is state your case and let the people watching the debate draw there own conclusions. Eventually everybody worth the effort will come around to recognising how the world really came about and really works and realise we will never know all the answers, just enough to take a pragmatic view of survival and existance at a societal level.  

Sow the seeds.

Welcome aboard.

Regards
Chris

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[PoopShoot]

Creationists just don't care.  They don't care that the transitions are there.  They don't care that Genesis is demonstrably inaccurate.  They don't care that the bible syas plants existed before the sun and fish are whales.  They only care that their pastor said so.

[epepke]

Creationists just don't care.  They don't care that the transitions are there.  They don't care that Genesis is demonstrably inaccurate.  They don't care that the bible syas plants existed before the sun and fish are whales.  They only care that their pastor said so.

That's accurate.  I think that atheists make a big mistake by thinking that facts matter to the majority of people.

[PoopShoot]

I think that atheists make a big mistake by thinking that facts matter to the majority of people.

It's an easy mistake to make, considering that the facts DO matter to the majority of people, the importance of facts just tends to go out the window when it interferes with people's favorite drug.  That drug is all to often religion.

[epepke]

I think that atheists make a big mistake by thinking that facts matter to the majority of people.

It's an easy mistake to make, considering that the facts DO matter to the majority of people, the importance of facts just tends to go out the window when it interferes with people's favorite drug.  That drug is all to often religion.

The facts that matter seem to be as follows:

1) Gimme my consumer yummies!  CHEAP!

2) Science, ewww.  Frankenstein.

[PoopShoot]

As humorous as that is, it's too simplistic.  When a man is on trial we want to KNOW that he is guilty.  Anything less in unjust in our eyes.  Whether a soap is safe to use, a drug safe to take, a food preservative safe to eat, we want the facts.  We have whole government agencies devoted to gathering these.  We purchase magazines that expound the facts.  We visit websites and research that this or that indeed did happen so we should avoid X, whether it be a product, an action or anything else.  We love that we KNOW electricity will kill you.  It's only when the facts threaten our favorite high that the facts take a back seat to something else.  This isn't just true for theists.  The alcoholic will deny facts that force him to stop drinking, the tweeker will deny the adverse effects of meth, I have been known to jump on studies that support the usage of marijuana and deny studies that malign marijuana usage (though when I catch myself and look objectively I seem to find more support for my side than the opposite.  Confirmation bias?  Maybe) the slut will pretend that there are no STDs.  With religion it is the same thing.  The theist needs to protect their delicate belief structure of their beloved monamine overdose at church isn't going to be potent enough.  We NEED to deny fact in order to preserve what gets us off.

[tymygy]

As humorous as that is, it's too simplistic.  When a man is on trial we want to KNOW that he is guilty.  Anything less in unjust in our eyes.  Whether a soap is safe to use, a drug safe to take, a food preservative safe to eat, we want the facts.  We have whole government agencies devoted to gathering these.  We purchase magazines that expound the facts.  We visit websites and research that this or that indeed did happen so we should avoid X, whether it be a product, an action or anything else.  We love that we KNOW electricity will kill you.  It's only when the facts threaten our favorite high that the facts take a back seat to something else.  This isn't just true for theists.  The alcoholic will deny facts that force him to stop drinking, the tweeker will deny the adverse effects of meth, I have been known to jump on studies that support the usage of marijuana and deny studies that malign marijuana usage (though when I catch myself and look objectively I seem to find more support for my side than the opposite.  Confirmation bias?  Maybe) the slut will pretend that there are no STDs.  With religion it is the same thing.  The theist needs to protect their delicate belief structure of their beloved monamine overdose at church isn't going to be potent enough.  We NEED to deny fact in order to preserve what gets us off.

I agree with every syllable in that statement.

I used to be a creationist, but I opened my eyes and saw the real truth. Not god truth, reality truth.

I.D.iots have done nothing but make our productivity as a civilization slow substantially.

And thanks tank for the links.