Should a Christian own and/or carry a side arm?

[elliebean]

Well, a lot of them are the same sort of people who come up with words like 'peacekeeper'.

[Jac3510]

And so "turn the other cheek" ... ?  What of that?

Jesus' statement here shouldn't be interpreted in a pacifist sense. It is one of six "you have heard it said, but I say to you" statements (on murder, adultery, divorce, oaths, lex talionis, and loving our enemies). Each of these are examples of how He fulfills rather than abolishes the Law of Moses. A little background on rabbinical thought helps here. The OT by various counts had over 600 written laws. The Pharisees developed some thirteen hundred more (I think that is right; I don't have my references right on hand, but I know it was over a thousand) oral laws. These were meant to "fence in the law," the idea being that if you didn't break the oral law, which was supposed to be stricter than the written law, you had now way of breaking the Mosaic Law.

Without going into too much detail, what Jesus is doing in this part of the Sermon on the Mount is laying out His own oral law as compared to the Pharisaical oral law. It turns out that you could, at least from Jesus' POV, keep the oral law as it was established and yet break the written law. His laws were not intended to be stricter. Rather than fencing the written law in, His laws were extrapolating the basic spiritual principle. To take only one case, the OT commanded we not murder; Jesus says don't even be angry. Why? Because if you are not even angry with anyone, you can't be provoked to murder. He recognizes that sin starts in the heart. He is not changing the OT law, nor is He making it any stricter. He is getting at the core issue that was always in it that the Jewish establishment of His day had missed.

As for "turn the other cheek," He was challenging their notion of lex talionis. The OT, as you well know, says "an eye for an eye." That was not intended to be prescriptive. It was intended to be a limiter--if someone takes your eye, the most you can do is take their eye in return. Today we say the same thing with the cliche, "The punishment must fit the crime." The Law does not, then, REQUIRE an eye be taken for an eye. Jesus, then, gets to the spiritual truth of the matter. If someone strikes you on your cheek, rather than striking them back, as the OT would permit, turn them the other, as the OT would also permit. In this way, you stand absolutely no chance of breaking the OT law, and, in fact, honor it more by leaving all judgment to God!

Clearly, this has nothing to do with whether or not you can defend yourself or others from immediate danger.

Sorry for the tl;dr on this . . .

I seem to remember something about love thy neighbour and thou shalt not kill.

Actually, "kill" is better rendered "murder" as all modern translations have it.

{snip}
The stereotypical peaceful Jesus probably would not have.
{snip}

Snipped out the other stuff because it was all reasonable.

However the bit I retained interests me. Consider the Christians that do perceive stereotypical peaceful Jesus are there any? And would it be reasonable to expect them to attempt to emulate JC as they perceive him to be? I does strike me as hypocritical to aspire to emulate a 'perception' of peace and love and still carry a gun. Have you met Christians that cast JC in the peace loving lamb of God that do carry guns?

Yes, it is reasonable to expect them to emulate their understanding of JC and not purchase weapons of any kind. There are, however, two complications with this obvious (and correct!) point:

1. Human beings are capable of an incredible level of cognitive dissonance. That has only gotten amplified in our post-modern culture. Most people, Christian or not, as I'm sure you know and agree, don't stop to think through whether or not their positions on one issue are compatible with the stated beliefs on others.
2. As a special case of (1), such Christians usually have a self-contradictory view of Jesus in that, seeing Him as a pacifist, they still cite some of the passages that have been mentioned in this thread as the basis for their . . . ah . . . packing. They don't even bother trying to harmonize the two positions because the inconsistency hasn't been pointed out to them.

So your point is well taken. The issue simply needs to be pointed out to them so they can either change their behavior or their view of Jesus.

[The Magic Pudding]

Thanks Jac3510, that was interesting.

[parrotpirate]

If the Xians get side arms, can I have an atheist RPG? Or maybe a flamethrower or something?

[Asmodean]

I don't think anyone should own a firearm unless they are active hunters, regardless of their religious beliefs or locale.

[Cecilie]

I don't think anyone should own a firearm unless they are active hunters, regardless of their religious beliefs or locale.

Haha you sound so European. (I agree though).

[Martin TK]

Personally, as a Southerner, I would give up my gun when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers... but I used to hunt and I think owning a gun is akin to owning a fishing rod.  It has nothing to do with my beliefs or my political affiliation, it's just how I grew up, I guess.

I don't like handguns though.

[Asmodean]

I don't think anyone should own a firearm unless they are active hunters, regardless of their religious beliefs or locale.

Haha you sound so European. (I agree though).

European? EUROPEAN?!  

[Jac3510]

Did anyone vote 'no' in the poll for political rather than theological reasons, meaning, they don't  think anyone should own a gun?

[Asmodean]

Did anyone vote 'no' in the poll for political rather than theological reasons, meaning, they don't  think anyone should own a gun?

Yup.

[Thumpalumpacus]

Jac:  Thanks for the detailed reply.  I'm not sure I agree, but it's gotta simmer in my brain a bit before I can formulate it, so forgive me this insubstantive acknowledgement.

Martin, I hear you.  I was taught to handle a gun at 8, and it had nothing to do with religion, or its absence, but simply because, as a Junior Redneck®, it was part of my training course, so to speak..

Later in life, I saw the benefits of such training, and I am teaching my son the same principles as taught to me, so that he can understand that a gun is not a toy, nor a status symbol, but an instrument of death, to be handled with due respect.

[Edward the Theist]

Jesus told his followers to sell whatever they had to to buy swords, because when he was gone they would be considered among the criminals.

I think it's safe to say that even if he didn't carry a gun (what with being able to do miracles and all), he would probably instruct his followers to. Today, a gun is the equivalent of a sword.

[Jac3510]

Did anyone vote 'no' in the poll for political rather than theological reasons, meaning, they don't  think anyone should own a gun?

Yup.

Well that kind of skews the poll . . . it seemed to me Chris was asking about the relationship between Christian theology and gun ownership, as hw seemed to have detected a level of hypocrisy. :p

n/m

edit:
Thumpalumpacus, very welcome. If I was unclear on anything or if you think I've missed an important fact somewhere, let me know and I'll be happy to clarify/modify.

[Asmodean]

I think it's safe to say that even if he didn't carry a gun (what with being able to do miracles and all), he would probably instruct his followers to. Today, a gun is the equivalent of a sword.

Just to argue semantics, a sword is still a sword. A gun is not a modern day equivalent, but a totally different kind of weapon.

That said, whatever happened to turning the other cheek..? Oh wait... Jesus was a hypocrite... Nevermind...  

[Martin TK]

I think it's safe to say that even if he didn't carry a gun (what with being able to do miracles and all), he would probably instruct his followers to. Today, a gun is the equivalent of a sword.

Just to argue semantics, a sword is still a sword. A gun is not a modern day equivalent, but a totally different kind of weapon.

That said, whatever happened to turning the other cheek..? Oh wait... Jesus was a hypocrite... Nevermind...  lol  WELL SAID!!!!!!