Mosque at Ground Zero

[deekayfry]

I am from NY, born and somewhat raised there.  It is appalling to see something like this happening in our time.  This cultural center well be built blocks away from the Ground Zero site.

Yet, it is in the news, and truly insidious people have made a game of political football out of this.  Why shouldn't any place of worship be built anywhere? Provided that is done through fain and necessary channels.  It is this kind of bigotry that makes us as Americans hypocrites.  We say we all for religious tolerance, religious freedom, (albeit under the Christian banner... a topic of another discussion).  Yet, we practice this tolerance in ways we see fit.  Sure we tolerate and favor Christians and to a lesser extent Jews.  Sure we marginally tolerate Asian religion.  Yet when it comes to something that does not resumble us like Islam?  Noooo, we cannot accept Islam, even though we have ravaged an entire nation, killing tens of thousands, and sparking a civil war (read Iraq) based on fictional evidence of WMD.  Neither the sentiments behind 9/11 nor the invasion and disruption of Iraq justifies the other.

It is painful to see that we punish a whole society for terrible acts of a few, and that our own reasons are the same of those who fight us.  It is painful to see that Americans are so insensitive and selective.  Its okay to rail against one particular religion, submit, subvert, and run them off, but "oh god and heaven forbid" we do away with Prayers in school.  That is an attack on the Christian God, Satan is alive and well! Forget that Islam believes in the same God.

The cultural center, with a mosque, will NOT be at Ground Zero.  It will be four blocks away.  I cannot fathom why a select group of individuals have intentionally fanned flames of hatred and bigotry.  People who knowingly and willingly pounce on something like this just to score political points.

This is not my America!

Your thoughts on this?

[Whitney]

I think you should check the news again..the cultural center has been there this whole time they just want to add on to it...at least that's what I've read.  Nonetheless...it's America...we are all about freedom of religion; right?  If not, then the terrorists already won.

[Sophus]

I think you should check the news again..the cultural center has been there this whole time they just want to add on to it...at least that's what I've read.

I was in New York last month. This isn't even at Ground Zero, as deekayfry already noted. The signs said they were building a 9/11 memorial museum there. I took photographs on the trip but didn't think to get any of Ground Zero, because, well... it's just a construction site with walls around it; can't hardly see anything. Now I wish I had.

Muslims should be completely free to build whatever worship center they want so long as the government is funding it. And I keep respecting this right of theirs separate from what I think of their religion.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I can understand a bit of resentment at the building, but at the same time, we are a nation of laws.  Instances such as the are the proving ground; in this way, we shall know whether we hew true, or cut crooked.

[Tank]

Emotionally I would hate it, rationally I should support the rights of the individual to express their world view in almost anyway they see fit. I suppose that is the deep tribal animal in me railing against mind born of the Enlightenment. I suppose I just wish religion would lay down and die peacefully and let humanity find its own way at last, to let humanity grow up and be all it can be.

[Sophus]

I suppose I just wish religion would lay down and die peacefully and let humanity find its own way at last, to let humanity grow up and be all it can be.

Please refudiate this.
 

[Tank]

[Will]

Build the Mosque. Freedom of religion is necessary in a free society and guarantees people like us freedom from religion. If we don't allow a mosque today, we'll find ourselves on a slippery slope heading even faster toward theocracy. I certainly don't want that.

Anyway, it's not like all Muslims are somehow responsible for 9/11. I disagree with their belief system but not to a point where I'm going to start generalizing to that degree. 9/11 was perpetrated by hateful, ignorant, desperate people who happened to be Muslim. Their faith may have played a part in what they became, but that alone can't be the basis for condemning a billion people. I'm an environmentalist, but I would never commit acts of environmental terrorism.

[pinkocommie]

Build the Mosque. Freedom of religion is necessary in a free society and guarantees people like us freedom from religion. If we don't allow a mosque today, we'll find ourselves on a slippery slope heading even faster toward theocracy. I certainly don't want that.

Anyway, it's not like all Muslims are somehow responsible for 9/11. I disagree with their belief system but not to a point where I'm going to start generalizing to that degree. 9/11 was perpetrated by hateful, ignorant, desperate people who happened to be Muslim. Their faith may have played a part in what they became, but that alone can't be the basis for condemning a billion people. I'm an environmentalist, but I would never commit acts of environmental terrorism.

Yeah, exactly.  From the numbers I've seen (though I can't find the link right now, so correct me if I'm wrong) a fair amount of people who died in the incident were Muslim.  Not that that really matters, but to say that this was a Muslim attack that all Muslims supported is kind of crazy.  Do they not allow any Christian churches within a specific radius of the Oklahoma city bombing site?  Has that ever even come up?

[KebertX]

Everyone here is talking about mixed feelings, and how they don't like the religion, but they support their freedom to practice and build whatever they want.  Am I the only Atheist who would genuinely love to see this mosque built.

Since 9/11 Muslims were a group of people that suddenly got alienated. It became acceptable, even a patriotic duty, to discriminate against American Muslims. I think that letting this mosque happen without half the country losing their damn minds would have been a show of solidarity. It's been 9 years, I think there should be some form of gesture that says: "We don't hate you guys anymore..." And allowing them to build this mosque, so close to where the damage was done, I think, would be a perfect way to do that.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: Islam is better than Christianity! I'm not a Muslim, but I love Islam. Osama bin Laden is kind of like the Islamic Fred Phelps, isn't he?

[humblesmurph]

If the people don't want a mosque then don't build a mosque.  The buildings were literally torn down in the name of Islam.  If people are really upset about it then it's more trouble than it's worth. The world doesn't need another mosque anywhere let alone a stones throw away from ground zero.  It might be different if there was another shiny new set of buildings at the site, but it's still a hole, a wound--a mosque so near would be like salt in that wound.

[deekayfry]

Everyone here is talking about mixed feelings, and how they don't like the religion, but they support their freedom to practice and build whatever they want.  Am I the only Atheist who would genuinely love to see this mosque built.

It should be built and there shouldn't be a controversy.  What scares me and upsets me is that we have become a nation of bigots.  Islam was all ready hated and feared before 9/11, it became exponentially worst after that, and now... you have this, garbage.  I had a best friend in college who was Islamic.  His home was destroyed when the two bombs went of in Dar El Salaam.  Thankfully, he and his family were all right.  He was at school.

It's just an excuse to fan the flames.

I don't have mix feelings supporting religious freedom, though.  Banning religion is committing social suicide.  Religious freedom, freedom from religion, and a secular government has given way to 230 years of relative peace.  Theocracy means constant death and war as is with the other extreme of banning all religion.

[KebertX]

It should be built and there shouldn't be a controversy.  What scares me and upsets me is that we have become a nation of bigots.  Islam was all ready hated and feared before 9/11, it became exponentially worst after that, and now... you have this, garbage.  I had a best friend in college who was Islamic.  His home was destroyed when the two bombs went of in Dar El Salaam.  Thankfully, he and his family were all right.  He was at school.

It's just an excuse to fan the flames.

I don't have mix feelings supporting religious freedom, though.  Banning religion is committing social suicide.  Religious freedom, freedom from religion, and a secular government has given way to 230 years of relative peace.  Theocracy means constant death and war as is with the other extreme of banning all religion.

If there are two things I can't stand, it's Theocracy, and Literal Interpretations of Scripture!  I wasn't paying attention to American's attitude toward Islam before 9/11. But I have noticed a definite hypocracy toward the religion. A country embracing Christianity has no grounds to reject Islam.

I also have a lot of Muslim friends, and I can't think of another demographic who was done more harm by the terrorist attacks.  I would be really glad if this mosque was built. I'm tired of this anti Islamic bullcrap. If anyone needs to not be alienated these days, it's American Muslims.

[humblesmurph]

I have Muslim friends also.  I don't think that they should be discriminated against at all.  However, not building a Mosque very near to ground zero is not the same as religious oppression.  It's not like I'm talking about burning down a Mosque, or aggressively trying to convert Muslims.  

Religion is silly.  The best we can do is limit the damage caused by it.  It seems to me that building a Mosque near ground zero might make people very angry.  Protecting this Mosque from Christian extremist might require a lot of time and energy.  However, not building it wouldn't cause nearly the same reaction.  Just doesn't seem worth the trouble for a meaningless gesture towards a meaningless religion.  Muslims are not going to feel any less discriminated against.

If we really want to do something about how people of Middle Eastern descent are treated, a change in foreign policy is needed. Being more respectful of their "holy land" seems a lot more fruitful.  Building the mosque is almost like saying, "see we don't hate Muslims" we have a Muslim friend.  All the while we shit all over them where it really counts.

[Thumpalumpacus]

I have Muslim friends also.  I don't think that they should be discriminated against at all.  However, not building a Mosque very near to ground zero is not the same as religious oppression.  It's not like I'm talking about burning down a Mosque, or aggressively trying to convert Muslims.  

The Constitution forbids the government from favoring any religion over the other.  If they own the land, it is zoned properly, and they have the necessary permits, any refusal by the government to allow the mosque would prima facie be discrimination; which is only a subtle form of persecution.

Religion is silly.  The best we can do is limit the damage caused by it.  It seems to me that building a Mosque near ground zero might make people very angry.  Protecting this Mosque from Christian extremist might require a lot of time and energy.  However, not building it wouldn't cause nearly the same reaction.  Just doesn't seem worth the trouble for a meaningless gesture towards a meaningless religion.  Muslims are not going to feel any less discriminated against.

In other words, let some freedoms get trampled when some folks threaten to throw a temper tantrum?

If we really want to do something about how people of Middle Eastern descent are treated, a change in foreign policy is needed. Being more respectful of their "holy land" seems a lot more fruitful.  Building the mosque is almost like saying, "see we don't hate Muslims" we have a Muslim friend.  All the while we shit all over them where it really counts.

Our foreign policy leaves much to be desired, true; but if you were a Muslim living in Jeddah, how do you think you would feel if this were to be shut down?