The future of theism in an atheist world.

[Sophus]

I don't think you'll ever see the day when atheists are a majority. But the numbers are increasing. Depending upon the tolerance of some theists they're fine with it, others seem to strongly oppose it. I couldn't care less what people believe until those beliefs begin to incite awful actions, as strong ones often do. If only we all believed in tolerance ("attack the hippie!")

You'll definitely never see a world of Nihilist freaks like me.  

[joeactor]

@joeactor are you more of a Deist or do you associated with a particular established religion more or less?

Nope... no established religion for me.  Was raised Roman Catholic, but abandoned that over time as I got exposed to more viewpoints.

Agnostic Theist is the best description for me.

I believe there is something, but I don't define, uh, whatever it is.

That's my personal philosophy and it gets me out of a lot of mental jams.

[polishman]

your personal philosophy is the best example of an attitude that makes me wanna laugh, because that means you are physically weak. Atheism is for strong people who are able to take all the responsibility for everything they do. Following your ideology allways leaves a possibility to befriend any of the existing religions. Finally that makes you an undecided person, who is not informed enough to make a definite statement.
I also had a time like that in my life, but as I like Nietzsche's philosophy, his point of view shaped my counsciousness into a well-defined atheist and rationalist.
It takes a time, and a lot of space in your mind btw...

[Davin]

your personal philosophy is the best example of an attitude that makes me wanna laugh, because that means you are physically weak. Atheism is for strong people who are able to take all the responsibility for everything they do. Following your ideology allways leaves a possibility to befriend any of the existing religions. Finally that makes you an undecided person, who is not informed enough to make a definite statement.
I also had a time like that in my life, but as I like Nietzsche's philosophy, his point of view shaped my counsciousness into a well-defined atheist and rationalist.
It takes a time, and a lot of space in your mind btw...

joeactor has displayed very logically strong responses so to call him weak is to not know him. His ideology doesn't leave open any more a possibility to join a religion than yours does. There isn't anything wrong with undecided.

I think this kind of response is similar to the standard theistic, "if you don't believe what and how I believe then you must be some kind of inferior person compared to me."

Just because you think your view of the world is the best, doesn't mean that everyone else must follow it in order to be as superior as thou art.

[polishman]

no offence, I'm not critisizing his beliefs as totally bad. I even think that if someone is one of the inventors (as I heard) and members of the forum, he must be a person who has his own opinion and it's not a teenage theory. I;m just saying my ideology is a bit different, that's all.

[Davin]

It's totally ok with me to criticize anyone's beliefs, just not to come right out with statements that come off as very condescending (like "your personal philosophy is the best example of an attitude that makes me wanna laugh, because that means you are physically weak.", "Finally that makes you an undecided person, who is not informed enough to make a definite statement." and "It takes a time, and a lot of space in your mind btw...") when the person doesn't deserve it.

I'm just giving my opinion that joeactor doesn't deserve it just because of his world view. And because he has demonstrated a very rational mind he definitely doesn't deserve it. Plus this is a "Happy Atheists" forum, so to follow the spirit of the site, I thinks it's better to be polite until treated otherwise.

I don't mean to come off as being rude here. I do often require that people let me know when I am being rude. This is because I have a difficult time knowing when something I say is rude and while I've gotten much better at knowing what most people consider being unreasonably rude, I still tend to come off as completely rude sometimes.

[polishman]

Then I apologize for my agressiveness.

[joeactor]

Davin: Thanks!

Then I apologize for my agressiveness.

Apology accepted.

Be careful how you view those who disagree with your perspective, though.

Even if atheists represented a stronger position from a logical perspective, it doesn't mean anything if they're outnumbered.
Being "right" is not much comfort if you can be beaten by those you view as "wrong".

At present, the majority of the Earth's population is religious, and they control the majority of the planet.
Making a nuisance of yourself and calling them names will only cause trouble for you and your cause.

Like it or not, "Might Makes Right" and "History is Written by the Victors" are more than just clever aphorisms...

[pinkocommie]

Now, an Agnostic world?  That's possible.
For me, it's less about "Is there a god?" or "Is there no god?", and more about our comfort with being able to say "I don't know".

I guess I just don't understand agnosticism.  I'm an atheist, but I also believe my viewpoint to essentially be 'I don't know'.  I'm an atheist because I don't see there being any more of an argument for god then there is an argument for bigfoot or nessie.  Once there is evidence of a god in any respect existing, then I'll go from I don't know to maybe, but as it is I don't see that 'maybe' makes any sense, and it seems like agnostics feel that 'maybe' makes the most sense, not 'I don't know.'  I guess technically I believe there's a slim chance god exists, but again, there's also a slim chance bigfoot exists.  That slim chance isn't because of evidence, however, it's because I don't think absolute knowledge of those kinds of entities is possible.

I'm an a-theist.  I don't believe there is evidence for the existence of god.  I'm not saying with certainty that there isn't a god, I'm saying no credible evidence exists to suggest there is one in the first place.

Maybe it's because I was never raised with any religious ideas being presented to me as factual, I don't know, but it seems like the only evidence people have for god are subjective personal feelings and beliefs based on unverifiable literature.  That's not enough for me to seriously entertain the idea of something being real, especially since I've never had a personal emotional experience that I recognized as in any way influenced or inspired by a god.

[JillSwift]

I want an apatheist world, where the whole god issue is, well, a non-issue.

It wouldn't eliminate faith or belief in a god or gods, but it wold make it "their thing", because it's a non-issue. Similarly, no beliefs in such concepts would engender similar responses (that is, none at all).

The idea that humans "need" faith or belief at any level has always struck me as at odds with what we know of human psychology, and often it comes off as a weak defense of a world-view known to the believer as inherently irrational and indefensible. That said, so long as one's actions are defensible and rational, though, all else is "whatever lets you sleep soundly". It's not even tolerance, per se, it's just knowing that it makes no real difference here in "objective reality".

Do y'all remember the scene in Conan the Barbarian where Conan and his friend Subotai discussed their respective religions? They both were so certain their god was so much better than the other's, but in the end the friendship was more important. It didn't even need to be said, it simply was. That's what I think needs to become the major cultural factor. Not atheism, not any religion, rather community being really far more important than anything else.

Well, hope that made sense. I'm beat tired and I still have to be up for the next few hours, so pardon ramblind please.  

[joeactor]

Hey Pinko,

Sounds like you're an Agnostic Atheist:


I say an "Agnostic" world is more likely because, to me, "I Don't Know" is the honest answer to the question "Is There a God?"

Jill: I could see an apatheist world too...

YMMV,
JoeActor

[pinkocommie]

I agree - 'I don't know' or 'I don't care' seem to make the most sense to me.

If I'm pretending that the world ends up being the inverse of what it is now, then I imagine people will have found something else instead of religion to use to marginalize others.  I don't think that would be atheism specifically, but who knows how a concept might get perverted over the course of time, right?

[i_am_i]

I don't see this as being very much of a "theist" world. It's really more of a corporate world. There are no religious police where I live. I see churches all over but I see a lot more Starbucks. I never hear anyone talking about religion anywhere. Everyone is just going about their daily lives, what they may be thinking I have no way of knowing.

When I go to the shopping mall, when I drive around the city, when I go out to eat or to a bar...nothing, no religion. I see a lot of corporate icons all over the place, but there's no crucifix to be seen above city hall. Really, I just don't see it anywhere. Professional sports, absolutely, that's most people's religion it seems, but nothing about God or Jesus or anything in the so-called public square. I guess I'd really have to look for it to find it.

Oh, you hear people say stuff like "Our prayers are with the families blah-blah" and that sort of thing, "It's a miracle that no one was killed or injured," but that's just platitudes. I don't get the impression that the people saying those things really believe it.

I don't know. I don't feel the least bit oppressed by religion, nor do I see it brazenly trumpeted all over the place.

I think we're seeing the future of theism right now, in this country anyway.

[Gawen]

If atheism becomes the predominant world view, how would the remaining theists feel? Also how could they react to this reversal of majority support?

I have some thoughts on this subject but rather than bias the discussion I'd like to hear some other peoples thoughts first.

Personally, I don't think that will ever happen. But if you think about how religions have supplanted other beliefs, perhaps you could have some sort of idea as to how or what would happen.

Think of:
The white Europeans that drove out the American Indians
Catholics running roughshod over the Mayans and Aztecs
Stalin's form of Communism trying to stamp out religion in USSR

But then...these three instances involved coercion. I find it unlikely that some sort of atheist organisation could ever sneak into power; that it could somehow be a dominate force to be reckoned with the likes of the religious right.

I think the only way for atheism to become a dominate worldview in any religious country will take quite a long time. There are too many variables in this thought experiment.

[i_am_i]

I think the only way for atheism to become a dominate worldview in any religious country will take quite a long time. There are too many variables in this thought experiment.

Do you, Gawen, live in a religious country?