Why am I still irrational/supersticious? Need some help :(

[jimmorrisonbabe]

The battery running out

But then I start to think as well - if there was a supernatural force, you couldn't necessarily observe it could you? But yes, it does make a lot more sense the battery just running out. It's just how to focus on that as an explanation that i find confusing XD

[Squid]

The battery running out

But then I start to think as well - if there was a supernatural force, you couldn't necessarily observe it could you? But yes, it does make a lot more sense the battery just running out. It's just how to focus on that as an explanation that i find confusing XD

How is the battery in a clock running out, which is something that does happen quite often in many devices, harder to explain than some supernatural force focusing on making this clock stop at specific point in time?  If you wish to apply Occam's razor, it is much more parsimonious to go with the battery explanation than needing to rationalize how some invisible, undetectable supernatural force.

What exactly do you find hard "to focus on" about the battery running out?  Batteries run out in devices all the time, it's a common occurrence.  Unless someone changes the battery, that clock will just sit there with the same time on it.

Also, I would be inclined to agree with the earlier mention of possible OCD as this focusing on this event and the need to explain it in such detail does seem to fall into the behavior exhibited by that disorder.

[jimmorrisonbabe]

It's because it was close to my birth time that I find it hard not to attribute a supernatural meaning behind it. I mean imagine if it stopped DEAD ON when i was born, wouldn't that be considered somewhat supernatural? Or could it still be explained scientifically?

[i_am_i]

I see this as having gone beyond whatever a clock did when you were born and being more about your fixation on this. Now I don't know anything about OCD but I get the impression that this is troubling you way beyond all proportion. The very fact that you continue to post about this shows that.

You're absolutely right where you say in the title of this thread that you need help, and help is available, you know. You need help getting out from under this, I can see that. And it's okay, it's perfectly okay. If you had a chronic severe pain in your chest you'd go to a doctor, wouldn't you?

You said earlier that you are trying to avoid psychotherapy, as you don't believe you really need it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with therapy and I think it would do you a world of good. Just talking about something with a therapist can often be the first step to letting go, getting clear of what it is that's bothering you, and this is really, really bothering you.

Make an appointment with a psychiatrist, tell him everything you've told us here and let him take it from there. Just taking that first step will make you feel a lot better, trust me.

[Cecilie]

I see this as having gone beyond whatever a clock did when you were born and being more about your fixation on this. Now I don't know anything about OCD but I get the impression that this is troubling you way beyond all proportion. The very fact that you continue to post about this shows that.

You're absolutely right where you say in the title of this thread that you need help, and help is available, you know. You need help getting out from under this, I can see that. And it's okay, it's perfectly okay. If you had a chronic severe pain in your chest you'd go to a doctor, wouldn't you?

You said earlier that you are trying to avoid psychotherapy, as you don't believe you really need it. There is absolutely nothing wrong with therapy and I think it would do you a world of good. Just talking about something with a therapist can often be the first step to letting go, getting clear of what it is that's bothering you, and this is really, really bothering you.

Make an appointment with a psychiatrist, tell him everything you've told us here and let him take it from there. Just taking that first step will make you feel a lot better, trust me.

Therapy doesn't always work though. At least it didn't on me, but then again I went (was forced) to therapy for a different reason.

[Squid]

It's because it was close to my birth time that I find it hard not to attribute a supernatural meaning behind it. I mean imagine if it stopped DEAD ON when i was born, wouldn't that be considered somewhat supernatural? Or could it still be explained scientifically?

The thing is that there is no reason to believe it was of some supernatural event.  You can also look at it this way, as I said before - you have this information second hand, years after the fact.  Next, it is just a clock that is not working - I have a clock that is stuck on 12 - it's right twice a day.  The longer that clock is stuck on that time, the more likely that a perceived significant event will occur at that time (much of this I explained in an earlier post).  Next, let's assume it was supernatural - one of the many traits attributed to the supernatural is the idea of purpose.  What is the purpose of stopping a clock not ON the time of your birth but only close?  Wouldn't something supernatural be a bit more accurate? And stopping a clock?  Hell, I can do that just by unplugging it or taking out the battery, were I present I could have stopped the clock close to your birth time myself - nothing supernatural about me.  So, if I could perform the same action what makes that event so "supernatural"?  It's just a stopped clock.

Let me ask you, does the event being associated with something supernatural make you feel better in some way such as reducing anxiety or provide some sort of comfort?  I'm just curious as why such adamant fixation on the broken clock.

Let me give you an example from my own life.  A long while back a group of friends and I were playing the drinking game quarters where you attempt to bounce a quarter into a glass to make the other person drink.  I bounced one of the quarters and it jingled around in the glass eventually resting to everyone's awe on it's side - very slim odds of that happening and I'm the one who tossed it - supernatural intervention into my life?  No, just a quarter than ended up on its end.

Also I agree wholeheartedly with I am I that this fixation you have on this fairly innocuous event may be more telling of something more that only a mental health professional can determine with certainty.

The persistence you address this topic with seems to be resistant to any natural explanation almost to the point as if you want or need to think it was supernatural despite there being no reason to think that.  Please believe me that I'm saying all this with honest concern and in no way trying to be the hardass.  I genuinely think that sitting down and talking with a mental health professional may help, if possible, I'd recommend talking to an LPC (Licensed Professional Counsleor) - they are licensed therapists with masters level or higher academic training.

[elliebean]

As it has been pointed out, if no one changes the battery, it will eventually run itself out. Since the clock is located in a maternity ward, eventually someone will be born at that time, give or take a few minutes. It's an inevitability. Not even an oddity or an improbability. It might seem mildly poignant, if you look at it from a certain point of view, but that point of view has no meaning. It's just a way to feel about unconnected events when one of them happens to be important to you. It wasn't even symbolic. It's just a mostly unremarkable inevitability, like someone tripping, eventually, if something is left on the floor.  

[i_am_i]

Therapy doesn't always work though. At least it didn't on me, but then again I went (was forced) to therapy for a different reason.

I can see how being forced into therapy wouldn't have a positive effect.

I went into therapy at the recomendation of my psychiatrist, but I was the one who make the choice to seek psychiatric help in the first place. Just doing something about how I was feeling made me start feeling better, more hopeful and positive.

For me therapy, combined with medication, worked very well, better than I ever hoped it would. Just talking about how I was feeling and what I was going through served to lessen the burden I'd been carrying around for most of my life, and it taught me how to step up and face my problems for what they are. It was, in a word, liberating.

[Cecilie]

Therapy doesn't always work though. At least it didn't on me, but then again I went (was forced) to therapy for a different reason.

I can see how being forced into therapy wouldn't have a positive effect.

I went into therapy at the recomendation of my psychiatrist, but I was the one who make the choice to seek psychiatric help in the first place. Just doing something about how I was feeling made me start feeling better, more hopeful and positive.

For me therapy, combined with medication, worked very well, better than I ever hoped it would. Just talking about how I was feeling and what I was going through served to lessen the burden I'd been carrying around for most of my life, and it taught me how to step up and face my problems for what they are. It was, in a word, liberating.

I see what you mean. The first therapist I had was awful. She was a student with no experience, and that didn't exactly make me want to get more therapy even if it was with someone else. I'm the kind of person who doesn't share my feelings. I never do, and I guess that's a bad thing. I have never tried medication though. I've always feared getting addicted.

[i_am_i]

Therapy doesn't always work though. At least it didn't on me, but then again I went (was forced) to therapy for a different reason.

I can see how being forced into therapy wouldn't have a positive effect.

I went into therapy at the recomendation of my psychiatrist, but I was the one who make the choice to seek psychiatric help in the first place. Just doing something about how I was feeling made me start feeling better, more hopeful and positive.

For me therapy, combined with medication, worked very well, better than I ever hoped it would. Just talking about how I was feeling and what I was going through served to lessen the burden I'd been carrying around for most of my life, and it taught me how to step up and face my problems for what they are. It was, in a word, liberating.

I see what you mean. The first therapist I had was awful. She was a student with no experience, and that didn't exactly make me want to get more therapy even if it was with someone else. I'm the kind of person who doesn't share my feelings. I never do, and I guess that's a bad thing. I have never tried medication though. I've always feared getting addicted.

Addicted, well, yeah, I suppose you could call it that. I'll probably be taking my pills for the rest of my life, probably. But then my case is rather extreme, I suppose. And don't get me wrong, I love my pills! They work!

It does no good to anyone to cast therapy and medication in a bad light. SSRI medication and talking therapy has vastly improved my life. No one should be made to feel afraid of seeking that kind of help because, for many people, it's a life saver.

[Cecilie]

Addicted, well, yeah, I suppose you could call it that. I'll probably be taking my pills for the rest of my life, probably. But then my case is rather extreme, I suppose. And don't get me wrong, I love my pills! They work!

It does no good to anyone to cast therapy and medication in a bad light. SSRI medication and talking therapy has vastly improved my life. No one should be made to feel afraid of seeking that kind of help because, for many people, it's a life saver.

I agree. If you are really depressed, medication may be the solution. 'Cause nothing is worse than being truly unhappy. And I know from personal experience.

[TheJackel]

To put this in perspective, the Time to which you refer to is only a human concept to measure the passing of time by giving it a timed tick & tock.. Time is the inertia of forward progression, or oscillation. Energy itself. Nothing predicted your birth because an infinite number of events in the sum total infinite vastness of existence that would be far more extraordinary could have likely occurred at the very exact moment of your Birth..  Such as the Birth of a Star, a Black Hole to begin ripping apart a solar system, Or the birth of a Dolphin.. I know people want to think that somehow they are supernaturally special, and that existence is magically here just for them. However, what makes us special is that it's not. To quote myself "To be unique is not to come from the whom of fabrication, but rather from the emerging order of chaos". We are all beautiful unique butterflies to which effect the existing world and order around us. We are equally the stuff that makes a star shine as we are the stuff that thrives on it's energy to survive. We are in a dance of synchrony, like that of a symphony of oscillating energy. Hence, we are all natural material physical phenomenon, unique as chaotic systems to which give us our own Identities, personalities, and individual uniqueness. :bananacolor:

BTW, we are all irrational Relax, you are perfectly normal, and if you feel more comfortable embracing supernatural elements into who you are, don't feel like this will make you any less of a person.. The Razor's Edge is a prime example of why we can't define rationality 100% into any state of existence

[jimmorrisonbabe]

Your posts have all helped so much, seriously. I know i AM still posting about it, and btw, i_am_i, i am (lol, notice the pattern there XD) taking therapy/seeing the doctor into serious consideration now. Although I do have long periods where i am rational, i always seem to float back to irrationality somehow, and i want to terminate that altogether. One day I know I will just see it as nothing more than a natural event, and i will laugh at it again just like when my parents used to tell me about it - and maybe seeing someone professional will make that more possible rather than me trying to tackle it myself

In terms of how other posters have helped, i think elliebean is right in pointing out that it is an INEVITABILITY that it will happen to someone, it's just partly getting my head round that, but i swear i'm starting to get there! Also with Squid, you're right in pointing out the supernaturality fail here.

...But as i_am_i said, i may just need that extra push with professional help, as i do think i've had an obsession with this for a while, and i probably wouldn't have such an obsession if there wasn't an underlying stress/cognitive/OCD problem somewhere.

Btw, I'm actually surprised at how many of you have saught help yourselves... do you mind me asking why or is that personal?

[The Black Jester]

Btw, I'm actually surprised at how many of you have saught help yourselves... do you mind me asking why or is that personal?

I imagine this is the type of thing that most would prefer not to disclose on a public forum, but I don't mind.  I'll jump in and pipe up.  

I should probably disclose that I was raised by therapists, who were, despite what you might suppose, excellent parents.  So I may be biased.

However, like you, I suffered from a kind of hyper-active pattern recognition, and attributed significance to accidentally coincident phenomena all the time.  I am convinced it contributed to my religious obsession when I was younger.  There is documentation in the literature on OCD regarding obsessions with religious thought and superstitious thinking.  So I second the advice that you seek help, if this is interfering in your quality of life.

[Thumpalumpacus]

A broken clock is bound to be right twice a day.

A broken clock in a maternity ward has a fair chance of "predicting" a birth-time, as Tank and Joe have pointed out, particularly if it is an urban hospital; but the real issue is how you are approaching the matter.