dealing with evangastic christians

[future_wiccan]

Well about 2months ago i told my mom that i am not a christian. She thinks i am atheist, i wont tell her that im actually tryign to get into Wicca untill she stop punishes me for this. how do i get my family to accept that im not a christian, they all think this is a phase and that i need some help to understand god. They take both physical objcts and oportunities away from me if i refuse to go to church with them. I figured you guys would know about dealing wiht these kinds of people, srry if you find this offensive.

[Johndigger]

Well about 2months ago i told my mom that i am not a christian. She thinks i am atheist, i wont tell her that im actually tryign to get into Wicca untill she stop punishes me for this. how do i get my family to accept that im not a christian, they all think this is a phase and that i need some help to understand god. They take both physical objcts and oportunities away from me if i refuse to go to church with them. I figured you guys would know about dealing wiht these kinds of people, srry if you find this offensive.

Well, I assume you're asking for advice from Atheists, so I'll keep this brief.

God gave us Free will. And if God gave you Free will, who is she to take it away?

I used to be an Atheist. My Mum kept on bugging me to go to Mass - it just turned me further and further away from Christianity. Then, she stopped and just left me to it. Now, 3 years later, I'm a pretty devout Catholic.

Naturally, it's different for everyone, but your Mum, as your parent has a right and a duty to guide you in what she thinks is best for her. So I will not fault her there. But at the end of the day, it's your choice.


JD

[Will]

This is not offensive at all. I'm sure a lot of us have had to deal with the bigoted religious people out there.

What I would suggest doing is telling on your parents to your old pastor. There's nothing like evangelical politics to shut up religious bigots. If you can convince your old pastor that your parents are punishing you because you are having a crisis of faith (be careful to word it that way, otherwise there is a small chance he could turn on you, too), and that you feel that their decision to punish you for reflecting on god would only serve to push you away from God, he is likely to speak very seriously to your parents about the nature of Christianity and maybe even freedom of or from religion.

I have several friends who practice wicca, and they are some of the nicest people I know.

As a pastor's son who is also an outspoken atheist, I am something of an expert in the area.

[Johndigger]

Basically manipulate your pastor onto your side against your parents

Manipulation will probably be bad for you in the long run, getting in "outside" forces is bound to escalate the situation, and I'm sure we'd all rather avoid that.

I'd suggest alternate methods first. A well-structured arguement might even do the trick.


JD

[future_wiccan]

you just twisted his words john, i was thinking about that today when i was there. mayeb i should offer to go to the youthgroup (on tuesday) so i can talk to Nathan, or Byran. they are both pretty cool guys, they wouldnt go off on me for not being a christian with the youthgroup being an outreach program.

[Will]

future_wiccan's parents have decided that they should, instead of allowing and promoting growth and understanding, punish future_wiccan for wishing to explore all the world has to offer. Is it fear? Anger? Bigotry? Probably. When in a situation where your adversary (in this instance alone they are adversaries, not overall, mind you) is acting based on emotion and irrationality, it is not unreasonable to believe that a logical argument will still fail. I hope that they would listen to a reasonable argument, but based on not only my experience but also the behavioral patterns outlined in the OP, it is not likely.

Either one must accept the unjust punishment, or one must adapt a better strategy. I suppose you could say I'm telling you to evolve...somewhat appropriate for an atheist forum I'd say.

[Johndigger]

you just twisted his words john, i was thinking about that today when i was there.

I didn't - that's exactly what he just suggested, regardless of whether you thought of it or not.

A pastor is there to help. If you want him to help, tell him everything. Don't just manipulate him into doing what you want him to do.

Sure, it's a back up strategy. But I'd try other ones first.


JD

[future_wiccan]

its not manipulation, they are there to help and this is a problem.

[Johndigger]

Shrewd or devious management for one's own advantage

This is exactly what the suggestion was.


JD,
anyway, let's not get overly pedantic about this. Let's concentrate on finding a way to get you out of this.

[Will]

I didn't - that's exactly what he just suggested, regardless of whether you thought of it or not.

The glass is half empty.
The glass is half full.

Both of these statements may very well be correct, but the difference lies in the nature of the opinion of that which is perceived. In the case of the glass, it is a study in optimism vs. pessimism. Your description of my post was correct, but was pessimistic. I hope this has cleared everything up.

A pastor is there to help. If you want him to help, tell him everything. Don't just manipulate him into doing what you want him to do.

This pastor was responsible for teaching the tolerance that would have prevented this. He was clearly lax in his responsibility. He has proven that he either cannot or will not give people the tools of religious understanding and tolerance. As such, it is reasonable to assume that he may be as receptive as future_wiccan's parents. Taking this into account, the best strategy would be to use the pastor as a tool instead of seeking help overtly.

[Johndigger]

This pastor was responsible for teaching the tolerance that would have prevented this

And where in his job description can you show that this is one of his objectives?

It might be. It might not be. You don't know. You can only assume this was one of his roles. And if it is one of his roles and he is failing in it. Then he's probably not going to be the best person to talk to, anyway.


JD

[Will]

And where in his job description can you show that this is one of his objectives?

It's probably written in the same place that says

A pastor is there to help.

It's in the Bible.
Luke 9:49-50 "...we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbade him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."
John 4:7-27: "There cometh a woman of Samaria to draw water: Jesus saith unto her, Give me to drink...Then saith the woman of Samaria unto him, How is it that thou, being a Jew, askest drink of me, which am a woman of Samaria? for the Jews have no dealings with the Samaritans. Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water...Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father...And upon this came his disciples, and marveled that he talked with the woman..."

[future_wiccan]

lets just get back on the subject.(i just noticed that i said evangastic,lol)

[Johndigger]

Yes, the bible also says:

If a man cheats on his wife, or vise versa, both the man and the woman must die. (Leviticus 20:10)

People who have flat noses, or is blind or lame, cannot go to an altar of God  (Leviticus 21:17)


So, by your logic - because it's in the bible - this is the Pastors job too. Wiccan, be sure to mention this to your pastor, next time you see him.

JD

[Will]

Surely. I think you should make a list in your head of all the things you can do, including enduring the intolerance. Weigh the possible benefits and possible costs of each road, and try to pick the most likely to end up right. It's your freedom to decide what's right, and that's the bottom line.

I apologize for the threadjack.