Should Atheists actively protest Christmas?

[Mark L Holland]

To Will

  I am somewhat of an enigma.  I was brought into the Faith by a God, it was done in a matter of minutes.  I was given absolute proof that a Loving, Caring and Compassionate God does exist.  Now prior to this I believed in God but despised him because I had nothing to go on other then the Christians name, image and persona of God that they follow and the Christian God is a Vicious, Murderous piece of solid waste material that has ever been imagined.  But my family history and personal history shows ongoing protection from what our family consider our Guardian Angels.

  So I became a Christian to find answers to what had happened to me.  Since Christianity is about the only mainstream religion in America.  As I was working my way through Christianity it became an ongoing contradiction.  I could find nothing in it that corresponded to the emotions an feelings that I felt when I was brought into the faith.  As I read and studied the bible I could find nothing that corresponded to the Loving, caring and compassion that I had felt when being brought into the faith.

  The further I got into the bible the more contradictions and inconsistencies I found, these later became the foundation that I wrote my book on.  The only redeeming factor that I found in the bible was the public teachings of Jesus before the Jews.  Jesus was a man of God a teacher of God and was inspired by God.  But Jesus and his teachings cannot be found in the Christian religion as it is practiced.  I published my book while still a Christian I tried to say that following Jesus and his public teachings was a good thing but that following the bible was wrong.

   But one cannot be a Christian unless one accepts the authority of the priesthood to speak with Gods authority and voice.  So I simply gave up Christianity, Jesus and the whole cock and bull authority of the Christian church.  I despise the Christian religion for several reasons.  One is that they claim that there is but one God and they are the only true followers of the only true and living God.  Basically they paint all Gods with the same tar cover brush in saying that all Gods must be as their God since no other Gods exist.  My God that I follow is not the vile filled, bile vomiting murderous monster as their God is.  While I know little about the God that brought me into the faith I know beyond a doubt he is not the God of the Christians.

  The second thing that I despise about the Christian religion is that they took a true man of God, a true teacher of God a true follower of God and turned him into God/Jesus one of the greatest evils this world has ever seen and turned him into this blood thirsty, hate filled monstrosity that by all rights should never have turned into a religion let alone into the primary religion of the United States.  It turns my stomach to think that this religion has committed atrocities and blood lettings that make Hitler and Stalin look like choir boys and blamed all of this evil on God and Jesus the man.

  There is nothing existing on the earth today that turns my stomach more then a righteous Christian claiming to speak with Gods authority and in Gods voice.  They should be thankful that I do not have a Harry Potter Magic Wand for if I did I would do things that would make Stalin puke.  But on a lighter note I am actually and nice guy who actually tries to live by the public teachings of Jesus.

  Happy Solstice to you.

[rb24]

Why bother? Christmas is obviously not about religion anymore, it's about capitalism.

[Mark L Holland]

To RB24

  The problem with Christian Theists is that if they are unchallenged, then they will continue pushing their agenda because there is no opposition to their agenda.  As far as I am concerned they should be challenged on everything that they hold to be important.
 

[Whitney]

As far as I am concerned they should be challenged on everything that they hold to be important.

I'm pretty sure that Christians and Atheists have some shared values that we both hold to be important....so, there is no reason to challenge something just because Christians like it.

I personally really like having a time of year where we all agree to get together as a family, eat yummy things, exchange a few thoughtful gifts, and are reminded to appreciate our fellow man....the secular version of Christmas is hardly religious and actually has stronger ties to pagan celebrations than anything.

[karadan]

If i protested against Christmas in the UK i'd be treated as a loony by atheists and christians alike. For millions of people, the tradition of Christmas is entirely disassociated with religion. I see no point in trying to abolish this.

[rb24]

If i protested against Christmas in the UK i'd be treated as a loony by atheists and christians alike. For millions of people, the tradition of Christmas is entirely disassociated with religion. I see no point in trying to abolish this.

Yes, that's exactly my point, Although I do agree with Mark L Holland on that Christian and religious beliefs need to be questioned and debated and challenged, but I think you would have to go after something that's completely associated with that single religion and not a holiday that's celebrated by millions who do not belief in the religious side of the holiday. So I really don't see the problem in an Atheist saying Merry Christmas or celebrating Christmas, I've even seen a video of Dawkins himself saying Merry Christmas to an interviewer.

[Mark L Holland]

To Whitney

  If the holiday is a federal, state or locally recognized holiday then it needs to be secular so long as the word Christ is in the holiday name there is a problem.  If the Federal Government recognized the Winter Solstice Holiday then I would have no problems with it.  While federal law prohibits prayer to be said at government functions that contain specific deities names such as Jesus, Allah or Jehovah.

  California does permit generalized prayers to be said.  As long as the prayer identifies only the name “God“.  So that other Theists of other beliefs would not be offended the prayer may be said.  The problem with Christians is that they believe Jesus is God so while the reference to God is not offensive to other beliefs, Christians automatically translate the name God into Jesus, and consider it not to be an affirmation of God but an affirmation of Jesus who is the only true and living God.

  So long as “Christ” is a part of Christmas, Christians will consider it an affirmation of God/Jesus’ reality as the only true and living God.  Are you suggesting that the only reason families get together is because of (Christ)mas) or would families still gather and celebrate and feast just as easily to affirm the Winter Solstice Holidays.   If you give Christians an inch they will take a mile and then hang you with the excess rope.
 

[larstheviking]

I agree that the Christ bit is slowly being phased out, which is a definite plus, seeing as taxes were collected in the spring not winter, and the story of Jesus' birth is a complete ripoff of every preceding story about the birth of a demigod or savior. If these ignoramuses could stop thumping their bibles for one second they'd hear the sounds of paganism in their beloved holiday. They'd hear christmas trees being chopped, songs being sung, and the deafening roar of american consumerism. They'd see the happiness in children's eyes because of the newest nerf gun or videogame rather than a politically radical jew being born. If they could enjoy the simplicity of it, the tradition and the happiness of celebrating the solstice and Yule and the basic togetherness of family and friends they would be much closer to a higher truth than obsessing over a baby. That's my take.

[Zyva]

Noooooo! I love Christmas, why would anyone want to protest it?
Who cares what we call it? If we called it Santamas, the celebrations would still be the same.
Most Christians have finally become aware of the pagan beginnings of this and other holidays anyway. There are religious denominations who refuse to celebrate most holidays and even their own birthdays because of the pagan influences. The Jehovah's Witnesses for example. These Christian groups do their own protesting against Christmas. Let 'em.  I'm not protesting a holiday that lets me have the day off work, eat myself silly and  give and get presents.

[Mark L Holland]

To Zyva

  Does the name make the holiday or does the holiday make the day.  I see no reason why the Federal, State and local Governments cannot name the holiday as a secular holiday which still gives you your day off with pay.  I do not dispute the Winter Solstice Season Holiday.  I simply dispute the name that Christians have given it.

 

[Zyva]

If you're going to go that far Mark, you may as well protest the use of the word "holiday" while you're at it. (Holy+day) :bananacolor:

[karadan]

To Zyva

 Does the name make the holiday or does the holiday make the day.  I see no reason why the Federal, State and local Governments cannot name the holiday as a secular holiday which still gives you your day off with pay.  I do not dispute the Winter Solstice Season Holiday.  I simply dispute the name that Christians have given it.

 

Most people don't care about the name. Come to Europe and see for yourself. I think you are protesting a pointless point.

[kelltrill]

Why bother? Christmas is obviously not about religion anymore, it's about capitalism.

^ What he said.

Christmas is a Western tradition now. Before my parents divorced we were a secular family and still celebrated Christmas. Like Whitney says, it's about family, food and shiny things. I know only a handful of people who still take the religious aspect of it seriously and many people from a variety of faiths who celebrate it openly because of what it represents culturally. I see no point in boycotting it. I think it has been completely assimilated into our society to take on new meanings, which can be interpreted religiously or not.

[Mark L Holland]

To Zyva

  Nah I simply have a thing for Christians, holidays in general I do not mind.  Thanksgiving should probably be renamed (The day of infamy) as the American Indians consider it, but I can even live with thanksgiving.  As for Halloween that is a children’s holiday that zealots attack every year.  It does not matter that it’s origins were Christian because Christians have turned against it.  If Christians treated Christmas the same as they treat Halloween I would have no problem with (Christ)mas) regardless of it’s name.

To kelltrill

  And do the Christians still protest the use of XMAS, do they protest stores that use the XMAS signs or require their employees to say happy holidays instead of Mary (Christ)mas).  What Christmas is to the Europeans is for Europe to decide.   As much as Christmas has turned secular it is not as secular as Halloween has become secular.  Maybe in another fifty years or so the religious aspects might finally become dead and buried or the Christian zealots who are becoming stronger may force a resurgence of the religious aspects of Christmas.

  A lot of people breathed a sigh of relief when Bush the Son left office and we Got Obama.  I voted for Obama but the simple fact is he will be a one term president, and he was the only hope we had to undo the damage done to the court system that Bush the Son has done.  Who ever the Republicans put up in 2012 he or she will either be evangelical, fundamentalist or someone who bows to their authority.

  Bush the Son before leaving office did everything he could to lock Obama onto a path that Obama would be hard put to leave.  With the supreme court loaded with zealots, and many of the appellate courts loaded with zealots we are two steps away from being a Theocracy.  With a Republican/Christian in office things can only change for the worse.  So yea, there is no aspect to small or to insignificant in regards to Christianity that makes it not worth the effort to challenge it.

  And as the effectiveness of the Republican/Christian Tea Parties have shown they do not lack numbers, and are formidable in strength.  To brush off the Christian religion as if they do not pose a significant threat to the freedom of Americans is to me a bit silly.
 

[kelltrill]

Sorry Mark, I forgot to consider that this debate was somewhat relative because I never considered it would get political. I'm from South Africa and as such I only profess to speak from a South African perspective. I can't vouch for American dynamics.

I firmly believe that the world would be a better place without religion. Without the dark ages of religious oppression in our history we would be a thousand years more technologically advanced. But since we do not live in this ideal world (and I solidly believe that religion will either take millenia to die out or will only be completely eradicated with the rest of mankind) we have to factor in what we have to deal with.

By ardently protesting secularised religious activities we will simply be placing more emphasis on their importance as just that: religious activities. This will result in Christians being more inclined to reclaim Christmas and revert it back into a highly Christian holiday. We will find more churchgoers, prayers-by-candlelight, travelling worship groups and the lot, simply because if a non-Christian says that something about Christianity is wrong, then that must make it more right. If we just leave it alone it will slowly become a more traditional, secular holiday (which it is already on the way to becoming, in SA at least), which will be enjoyed by more non-Christians all over the country, simply because of it's place in our culture rather than in religious doctrine.