Fundies Say Fractals Disprove Evolution (YooHoo Squid!)

[Sophus]

Another ridiculous claim I'm sure, I'm just trying to sort out fact from fiction. is not too good at doing that. Any help on bringing clarity to the issue?

Thanks!

[JillSwift]

Another ridiculous claim I'm sure, I'm just trying to sort out fact from fiction. :raised:

Who's making this claim? Have any specifics? 'Cause it sounds really really dumb so far.

[Whitney]

Um...this kind of fractal or something else?:

A fractal is generally "a rough or fragmented geometric shape that can be split into parts, each of which is (at least approximately) a reduced-size copy of the whole,"[1] a property called self-similarity. Roots of mathematical interest on fractals can be traced back to the late 19th Century, the term however was coined by Benoît Mandelbrot in 1975 and was derived from the Latin fractus meaning "broken" or "fractured." A mathematical fractal is based on an equation that undergoes iteration, a form of feedback based on recursion.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

They sure are getting creative.....

[Sophus]

Um...this kind of fractal or something else?:

A fractal is generally "a rough or fragmented geometric shape that can be split into parts, each of which is (at least approximately) a reduced-size copy of the whole,"[1] a property called self-similarity. Roots of mathematical interest on fractals can be traced back to the late 19th Century, the term however was coined by Benoît Mandelbrot in 1975 and was derived from the Latin fractus meaning "broken" or "fractured." A mathematical fractal is based on an equation that undergoes iteration, a form of feedback based on recursion.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fractal

They sure are getting creative.....

That's the kind. I was told :

They are discovering the stunning order and design in every area of study. Things that were once considered random and chaotic occurences within nature are now being shown to be small sequences in larger, unmistakable patterns and systems. In other words, it is showing that every aspect of biological, and physical science are mathematical and sequencial. That is proving to be a huge problem for the random explosion foundations of evolution.

[curiosityandthecat]

I would reply with this:

[joeactor]

I coded my first fractal generator in high school.

Here I thought they were just an interesting branch of mathematics...

How could I have been so wrong all these years!?!?

Your source for THE TRUTH (in all caps):
http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... 1/fractals

Fave quote:

Evolution cannot account for fractals. These shapes have existed since creation and cannot have evolved, since numbers cannot changeâ€"the number 7 will never be anything but 7. But fractals are perfectly consistent with biblical creation. The Christian understands that there are transcendent truths because the Bible states many of them.5 A biblical creationist expects to find beauty and order in the universe, not only in the physical universe,6 but in the abstract realm of mathematics as well. This order and beauty is possible because there is a logical God who has imparted order and beauty into His universe.

AND... Fave FOOTNOTE from above: "5) Such as laws of morality."

SEE, YOU HEATHENS!!!  Numbers CANNOT HAVE EVOLVED!  SO THERE!

I am convinced - why aren't you all running to the nearest church?
JoeActor

[Recusant]

They are discovering the stunning order and design in every area of study. Things that were once considered random and chaotic occurences within nature are now being shown to be small sequences in larger, unmistakable patterns and systems.

1) Randomness and chaos are not the same thing.  Processes once thought of as random often are eventually discovered to be actually chaotic (and therefore exhibiting what we see as a sort of pattern.) It is also true that  previously undiscovered patterns are sometimes revealed by a more intense observation, or one that takes advantage of new technology or technique. None of this really points to a creator god, unless that's what you want it to do.
It's kind of absurd to use this as an argument for a deity, in my opinion.  An example: For a very long time, people watched the planets wander seemingly aimlessly across the sky.  Eventually, through observation, we discovered that there was an underlying pattern, and by analyzing that pattern and applying some insight and more intensive observation, we learned that they were actually orbiting the sun, as we were. That movement from seemingly random, to "meaningful" pattern was a product of human intellect, and in no way pointed to some sort of god.

2)This seems to be just a sort of rehash of the whole anthropic principle argument.  Once again, if one chooses to see proof of an "intelligent designer" in the available evidence, then so be it, but that in no way obligates the rest of us to share that delusion.

[JillSwift]

They are discovering the stunning order and design in every area of study. Things that were once considered random and chaotic occurences within nature are now being shown to be small sequences in larger, unmistakable patterns and systems. In other words, it is showing that every aspect of biological, and physical science are mathematical and sequencial. That is proving to be a huge problem for the random explosion foundations of evolution.

Order != design. I wish these bozos would get that through their pointy heads.
Evolution is not random, it has a random component. Fractals deal perfectly well with random components - which is why they do a fine job of modeling living things.

[Sophus]

Good input. Thank guys.

[SSY]

[JillSwift]

Boviniterative sculpture