Halal meat and the general mistreatment of animals.

[karadan]

I live in a very multicultural part of my city and in the last year, a fair amount of fast food places have opened advertising their food as being Halal.

I have a problem with this, although I do feel like a bit of a hypocrite. I am not vegetarian but I am usually happy that the standards of slaughter in the UK are as humane as they possibly can be. If there was an alternative, like vat-grown meat for instance (indistinguishable from the real thing) then I'd go with that, but I doubt that will be a reality for some time to come.

So, Halal is the rearing and slaughter of meat in accordance with the religious standards of muslims. For anyone who doesn't know, it simply means deeply and swiftly cutting the throat of the animal until it bleeds out. I find this to be a very barbaric practice. Not just because the animal will inevitably suffer but also because this practice of slaughter is based upon a religious rule, not the welfare of the animal. I guess I shouldn't be surprised though as the koran implies that animals have no soul, therefore, cruelty is not even a consideration when dealing with them.

I guess the government would open up a massive can of worms if they were to outlaw halal meat but I still find it rather distasteful that a country such as England who seems to pride itself on the welfare of animals can also turn a blind eye when the practices of religious belief conflict with this. Surely there must be some sort of compromise.

Having previously worked for animal and wildlife charities, I’ve seen horrendous instances of animal cruelty from all walks of society. People with varying psychological issues perpetrated many of these instances but many were also perpetrated by muslims who'd been taught animals were no more conscious than a piece of drift wood. Their religion had stripped them of compassion for the living. That, to me, is even worse than the boy who habitually killed cats who also happened to have been raped continuously by his father throughout his childhood.

I like animals. I cannot stand the idea that, around the world where various societies have such bad standards for their humans, the welfare of animals doesn't even come into the equation. Sentient beings are being used and abused and they have no way to ask for help. I just wonder if religion didn't exist, what proportion of this backward barbarism would be eradicated?


So... Am i a hypocrite for eating meat in the first place whilst having an issue with halal meat? Are there any vegetarians or vegans here who think i am just as bad as i think halal meat-eaters are? What are your views on halal meat and is there anything my government should or could do to kerb its popularity?

[Will]

Halal is no more barbaric than any other standard method. You do have to kill a cow before eating it. Some are electrocuted (2.5+ amps through the brain, very painful), some are shot (this one has problems, and animals are often shot several times), and some are bludgeoned (a "captive bolt" machine plunges a metal piston into the head of the animal). Some even suffocate. We don't really use peaceful or humane methods because they're time-consuming and expensive. Chickens generally have it the worst, I won't go into details there.

Halal is no more or less inhumaine than other methods used, imho, but there's a plus side to halal and kosher: quality of meat. Generally, more care is taken in halal and kosher meats to ensure quality. Try eating an Oscar Meyer hot dog, then a Hebrew National (kosher) hot dog. You'll understand immediatally. There's more meat and less garbage in the kosher hot dog, and the meat that's in the dog is clearly superior.

[Lilbeth]

I find the slaughtering of animals for market to be barabaric. I find hunting in this day to be barbaric. Man does not need to eat meat to live......but I won't get preachy about it........These are just my feelings.....i watched a program on National Geographic last week of some redneck pig farmers and the cruelty they inflicted on the pigs there...Being thrown....one took five minutes to die while hanging.....etc....It happens all over with lots of animals......for fur, for ivory for meat....la-la-la.....This is another reason i do not like religion....as it seems to promote this....something better than us....we are better than some things....and they are nothings......just here for us......I don't know how anyone can call them self a Christian and kill something and not think twice about it...Just my feelings, as I have said......but....if you eat meat....I won't judge you......no....If no one kills, there will be none to eat, though....LOL!

[karadan]

So do animals die instantly when their throat is cut? Considering the spinal column is not severed so they aren't instantly paralysed. As far as i knew, the spring-in-the-brain method is the most instantaneous way to slaughter an animal although i'm not an expert in this field so any further info will be appreciated.

For the record, i never eat anything which isn't organic or free range although i do know the term 'free range' is usually a fairly loose one. I don't buy eggs which come from battery farms and i try to eat entirely local.

[Lilbeth]

You would think so, Karadan, in answer to your question, but I do not know,....and it is really too painful for me to even think about......I cry when I see road kill........and that is quite frequently here......

[Enoch Root]

Well I've slaughtered sheep by means of swiftly cutting the throat.  The animal struggles for about 3 seconds and then is dead.  But it's necessary to have the heart pump for a short time to bleed the meat or else the meat will not be fit for consumption.  Cutting the primary jugular in the throat ensures this bleeding.  Perhaps the animal feels a few seconds of pain, I don't know, and I don't think it's particularly important.  It's a domesticated animal bred for slaughter, and I find objecting to that practice based on three seconds of pain felt by a sheep is pretty silly.

If the practice is particularly grotesque to you I'd suggest becoming a vegetarian, though personally I don't see the logical argument behind that revulsion.  This method of slaughter is absolutely less painful than any manner of death to a natural predator, and I don't see any compelling reason to believe it's immoral for humans to eat meat but it's fine for every predatory species in nature.

If it makes you feel better, it's been repeatedly documented that both humans and animals enter a state of numbing shock when being subjected to brief, intense attacks (such as being mauled by a predator).  Survivors of animal attacks have commented on it, studies of mice when being "played with" by a cat have remarked on it.  I've severely cut my arm and I noticed I didn't feel any pain for the first few seconds, so I'd be willing to bet the sheep didn't have enough time to hurt.

Incidentally, this pain-numbing reaction is actually one of the arguments I used to give in favour of creationism, as it's a trait whose only purpose seems to be that of mercy.  

[Lilbeth]

I am a vegetarian, and I do find it disturbing, Enoch Root.....I am sorry you do not.....Nothing I can do about that......Would anyone like to see a human getting their throat slit? I wonder why it is ok that animals get slaughtered? To many, it is bothersome...To many, it isn't....Just the way it is.....but I am not going to feel badly for abhorring it.....or made to feel "silly." I have the right to my feelings just like anyone else.

[karadan]

Well I've slaughtered sheep by means of swiftly cutting the throat.  The animal struggles for about 3 seconds and then is dead.  But it's necessary to have the heart pump for a short time to bleed the meat or else the meat will not be fit for consumption.  Cutting the primary jugular in the throat ensures this bleeding.  Perhaps the animal feels a few seconds of pain, I don't know, and I don't think it's particularly important.  It's a domesticated animal bred for slaughter, and I find objecting to that practice based on three seconds of pain felt by a sheep is pretty silly.

If the practice is particularly grotesque to you I'd suggest becoming a vegetarian, though personally I don't see the logical argument behind that revulsion.  This method of slaughter is absolutely less painful than any manner of death to a natural predator, and I don't see any compelling reason to believe it's immoral for humans to eat meat but it's fine for every predatory species in nature.

If it makes you feel better, it's been repeatedly documented that both humans and animals enter a state of numbing shock when being subjected to brief, intense attacks (such as being mauled by a predator).  Survivors of animal attacks have commented on it, studies of mice when being "played with" by a cat have remarked on it.  I've severely cut my arm and I noticed I didn't feel any pain for the first few seconds, so I'd be willing to bet the sheep didn't have enough time to hurt.

Incidentally, this pain-numbing reaction is actually one of the arguments I used to give in favour of creationism, as it's a trait whose only purpose seems to be that of mercy.  
I'm always open to revisions to my mode of thinking and this has certainly helped me deal with various aspects of my generalisational attitude. I obviously need to rethink my stance on this.

Thanks for the info.

[Sophus]

I don't think I could even fake compassion for animals. I don't know why, I just don't care about them.

[Enoch Root]

Thank you for the clarification, Will and Enoch Root. You've both certainly given me food for thought (no pun intended).
I'm always open to revisions to my mode of thinking and this has certainly helped me deal with various aspects of my generalisational attitude. I obviously need to rethink my stance on this.

That's cool.  You don't need to ignore the issue of animal abuse: it's real, I just think your anger was misdirected.  Those who follow the halal or kosher requirements for animal slaughter I would think almost universally treat their animals better than the mass-market North American farms today.  They're the ones who should be your real enemy.

I'd also be willing to bet the halal and kosher meats are safer and healthier than most of the rest.

[Sorz]

Shouldn't we as humans come up with far better ways to treat our food?
On one hand you have "American meat is not slaughtered like Halal and Kosher, therefore its better"   But are killed by blood letting.

I don't understand what is wrong with people these days, sure if you want to meat go ahead. But you should at least consider this:

1)Allowing the animals to be able to live their lives, spread their wings and run around in circles....

2)Stop pumping them with miracle grow, it f*cks them  up....

3)When you kill the animal, do it as quickly and painlessly as possible, Halal and Kosher meat no matter how clean you claim it to be - its a painful way of killing them. Imo I would rather eat a bullet then have my throat slit. I don't even know how reliable non-Halal/Kosher killing methods are, I have also heard unpleasant things about them too.

But I doubt people would put these things into consideration. But since humans are more "civilised" and have enough intelligence to understand many things, do we really have an excuse?

[Ihateyoumike]

1)Allowing the animals to be able to live their lives, spread their wings and run around in circles....

Where?
We're packing ourselves so tight into cities that we hardly have room to move. Farmland and ranch lands are in use. They cut down rainforests to find more room for cattle to feed us, which certainly doesn't make alot of people happy. There's just not room for that to happen with our high demands for meat. And it'll only get worse as the human population continues to grow as fast as it is in this era of modern medicine.

I'm not sure I can see a way they can make that happen without drastically cutting out our consumption, or pissing others off by ruining more of nature for our meat production.

2)Stop pumping them with miracle grow, it f*cks them up....

Agree completely. Not sure what the long term affects of that stuff will do to the human population eating it either.

3)When you kill the animal, do it as quickly and painlessly as possible, Halal and Kosher meat no matter how clean you claim it to be - its a painful way of killing them. Imo I would rather eat a bullet then have my throat slit. I don't even know how reliable non-Halal/Kosher killing methods are, I have also heard unpleasant things about them too.

Good idea, in theory, but I have a feeling that slaughterhouses need speed more than they need to worry about how much pain the animals go through before they die.

I wonder how much pain a zebra goes through while it's being killed by a lioness?  

Shouldn't we as humans come up with far better ways to treat our food?

Should we? I think so. Can we? I'm not so sure....

[Kodanshi]

Sheep may struggle for 3 seconds, but cattle can take from as long as 30 seconds and higher to die from having their jugular severed.

[VanReal]

I don't think the focus needs to be placed on the minutes it takes for these animals to die but rather the way they are treated and handled prior to being lead to the slaughter.  I think the actual slaughter is a welcomed relief and a lot less severe than the suffering during their short, painful lives.

Factory farming is deplorable but short of people limiting their meat intake altogether there is really little way around it because humans are many and they like their yummy meat.  It's also very difficult trying to eat on the go and the easiest thing to pickup on the fly usually has animals in it.  

I had a harder and harder time eating most meat because I am so close to my critters so slowly phased out a lot of it, but I still eat eggs, dairy, and fish and I like honey and mayo and butter on my toast.  You do what makes you comfortable, so if the Halal meat bothers you don't eat it, but don't think that factory farming is any less painful or cruel, farmers aren't in the veterinary business they produce food in the form of what most peole find as scrumptous body parts, and in the volume we require there's very little they can do to provide nice pasture happy animals and painless euthenasia.