Atheists, come on, really, stop and think for a minute..

[rlrose328]

So in reality, what makes an atheist so positive that it is not God? How can you know for 100% fact that is it not God?

How can you know 100% fact that it is God? Same thing.

I don't know for 100% fact that it is God. But I believe it is. I have that gut feeling, ya know?  

So what you're saying is that gut feelings trump logic and reason?

[Ihateyoumike]

So, in your first post you say,

Atheism is nothing more than a guess, at best.

as a means of demeaning the atheistic position.

Then you say,

I don't know for 100% fact that it is God. But I believe it is. I have that gut feeling, ya know?  :crazy:

[rlrose328]

No other religion has been persecuted by atheists. Only Christianity.

Jesus said to his Disicples, "My people will be persecuted because of my name!"

You atheists are only making Jesus' word that much more true. Thank you!

Who would have thought 2,000 years later, people such as atheists would still be worried about a 1st century Rabbi. lol.

I saw an atheist wearing a t-shirt that reads; "Jesus is a cu*t" But wait a gosh darn second!! I thought Jesus didn't exist?? so how can he be considered a cu*t? This is further proof that atheists are just rebellious towards Christianity.

I would pay $500 U.S dollars to any atheist(s) who are willing to wear a t-shirt in Iran or Iraq that reads, "Allah is a fag!" Any takers? This kind of stuff only happens where it's acceptable by law. The Iranian citizens would stone you to death for wearing a t-shirt like that!

Or how about that Bus advertisement? Are there any atheists that are willing to visit Pakistan or Iran and place an ad on a bus that says, "Allah is imaginary, enjoy your life!" come on atheists.. any takers?

I doubt there will be any takers.. because atheists only run their mouth where it's accepted by law.

Atheists act real tough when they have the law on their side. Iran doesn't play those games! If you disobey Allah in the Islamic Republic.. they hang you! No trial, no jury, straight to the execution chamber! Oh, and if you are Jewish, after they cut off your head.. then they gouge your eyeballs out!

Here is a little history lesson on atheists, and how they have killed way more than any religion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP1KpNEeRYU

Have a good day!

I read all of your diatribe here... and what I see is that you are blood-thirsty to eliminate atheists who speak against you.  You want what Islam has... the ability to punish non-believers who speak against them.  It's disgusting, really... I guess you'd like to see all women completely covered and unable to speak without fear of being stoned as well, eh?  Since we're comparing fanatical belief systems?

My BIG issue with believers is their desire to turn their beliefs into laws.  Period.  If they'd lay off that, I'd be satisfied.  Believe, don't believe, I don't care.  But stop inciting violence because you don't like what we have to say against your belief AND insisting we are wrong for saying God doesn't exist without proof yet you can insist he DOES without proof and that's okay.  Equal rights for all beliefs or no rights for any of them.

[rlrose328]

Here is a little history lesson on atheists, and how they have killed way more than any religion!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tP1KpNEeRYU

Have a good day!

The first item in that video is the Catholics and the Inquisition... whoever made that video is one of those "Catholics aren't Christians" fanatics and thus, his entire argument is rendered moot.  "Pagan temple worshipers led by a Pope."  LOL!  

My own mother converted from Lutheran to Catholocism and she considers herself a very devout Christian.  She believes Christ died for her sins.  Period.  That is a Christian by most definitions.

The follows many examples that took place in Russia/USSR.  Going along the widely believed notion that Russians are all atheists (which is patently false, btw), this propaganda puts all of those deaths mistakenly on atheists.  Again, credibility suffers and the rest of the video is irrelevant.

[joeactor]

I don't know for 100% fact that it is God. But I believe it is. I have that gut feeling, ya know?  

Hmm... feeling versus thought. I wonder which is more accurate?

Not that I'm siding with Psalm23 ('cuz I'm not), but feeling has its place.

I certainly didn't use thought to fall in love with my wife.
... and I'm damn sure not gonna use feelings to work out my taxes!

Matters of faith are "feeling" ones... which is why it usually ends so badly when one tries to prove them logically.

Books are written (and edited) by humans, and as such are flawed.
Even science books.

The difference is that people who believe in "holy" books assume the book to be inerrant.
... and those who follow the path of science are always looking for errors.

Perfection is not attainable.  It is a path, not a goal.
Science is on that path.

Any belief that cannot examine itself and change is stagnant.
All flaws will forever remain flaws.

The earth is not flat.
Pi is not 3.
No single boat can hold 2 (or 7) of every species on the earth.

The bible is right about a lot of things... but every error uncovered will remain forever.
Those that believe it to be correct, in spite of evidence to the contrary, are doomed to wallow in ignorance.

I believe in a higher power.

... I also like a good slice of key lime pie,
JoeActor

[PipeBox]

Joe, you're ace, but I suppose the big difference is that loving a person, while not done through the process of reason (at least not as we typically think of it), doesn't stand hard against it.  God doesn't seem to be compatible, at least not any version I'd consider worthy or worship, after you account for the natural disasters and hardship.  Well, not entirely, you just made me think of a deist concept I'd take, one where God made the universe but didn't know life would emerge (the universe has uncertainty laws, that even if a god created, they still might be subject to), or even that it'd last more than two seconds, but it also made the universe unalterable, whether by design or just as a consequence of some other consideration.  God, in this sense, may greatly desire to help us, but cannot.  Problem with this version of God is that it strips the Bible of any possibility of miracles, and cannot save us from death as we are still "just" matter and energy.  Of course, that's all just fancy, but it's kinda fun from time to time to see what gods you can envision that don't conflict with reality.

But yeah, I don't base any statement of external fact on internal feeling.  Claiming that you, or anyone else, can "feel" God is just fine, if you're willing to admit it's in your head.  No one is going to do that.  Rather, God is a feeling, but one about the external universe, and those, much like feelings of the world being the center of the universe, stationary in space, and flat, are wrong, more often than not.  Now, you loving your wife, that is entirely based on your subjective feelings.  [strike:83knmaje]The only truth statement involved is that you love your wife, which you do, because that's the reason you're making the statement.  It's a self-consistent tautology, but the processes in the brain might still be mapped.  This isn't the same as experiencing it, or acting out of it, but it's still observable, so we can say you love your wife by more than just your admission, as well.  Now, you might believe love is an external, omnipresent force, but odds are you believe it's internal.  Same with anger, happiness, and so on.  Feelings of God generally entail God being real to more than just you, and external to you.[/strike:83knmaje]

Just thought of the words I was looking for.  A statement about feeling God almost always carries the implication that God is external to the human condition, whereas other feelings are just that: statements of the human condition.

And yeah, I just waaaay over-explained that.  But that aside, I've got no problem with theism as you seem to practice it, Joe.

[Squid]

... I also like a good slice of key lime pie,
JoeActor

[Wendy]

Psalm 23-- I have been reading all the posts in this thread for the past couple days and I must say, you seem like you aren't even trying! This is one of the most disappointing arguments against atheism I have ever seen in my life.

[Kylyssa]

No other religion has been persecuted by atheists. Only Christianity.

So you consider people disagreeing with you and not allowing you to make laws based on your religion, persecution?  You disrespect every Jew that ever lived by doing so.  How DARE you call disagreement and WORDS persecution in the face of CHRISTIANS murdering SIX MILLION human beings for being Jews last century?  THAT is persecution.  A teenager wearing a nasty t-shirt is distasteful, it is not persecution.  Comparing seeing a t-shirt to the systematic rounding up of millions of innocents (by Christians) for the purpose of murdering them is completely disrespectful.

I DARE you to go find a Holocaust survivor's child and compare their parents', culture's and and religion's sufferings to your hurt feelings.  

I also call bullshit on your blanket statement that atheists don't speak out about the atrocities of Islam.  What is that ever-so-famous "Imagine No Religion" photo of the twin towers still standing if not a comment on Islam? Do a damned Google search before lipping off disrespectfully about things you are completely ignorant of.

[Kylyssa]

I would pay $500 U.S dollars to any atheist(s) who are willing to wear a t-shirt in Iran or Iraq that reads, "Allah is a fag!" Any takers? This kind of stuff only happens where it's acceptable by law. The Iranian citizens would stone you to death for wearing a t-shirt like that!

Or how about that Bus advertisement? Are there any atheists that are willing to visit Pakistan or Iran and place an ad on a bus that says, "Allah is imaginary, enjoy your life!" come on atheists.. any takers?

I doubt there will be any takers.. because atheists only run their mouth where it's accepted by law.

Atheists act real tough when they have the law on their side. Iran doesn't play those games! If you disobey Allah in the Islamic Republic.. they hang you! No trial, no jury, straight to the execution chamber! Oh, and if you are Jewish, after they cut off your head.. then they gouge your eyeballs out!

Have you ever been discriminated against in the workplace for being Christian in America?  
Have you ever been beaten and hospitalized for being Christian in America?
Have you ever been stalked or received death threats for being Christian in America?
Does your State's Constitution specifically say you can't testify in court or hold a public office because you are Christian?

It's not Muslims doing those very things to us for being atheists in America, it is Christians.  Why would we complain about Muslims doing these things to us when they are not.  (Aside from the death threats, I've gotten one online from someone who might have been a Muslim.)

So, I take it you want to gouge out our eyes and cut off heads because we don't believe as you do but you'll settle for doing all that you can within the scope of the law?  You really just don't get it.  Muslims are just as vicious and destructive as Christians have been.  But, you see, they aren't legally attacking us in our own country.  They aren't depriving us of our basic human rights (as Christians are trying to do), they aren't letting their children die for religious reasons in our country (as Christians are doing), they aren't discriminating against us in our workplaces (as Christians are doing), they aren't proselytizing our children in school (as Christians are doing), nor are they forcing their religious tenets into law in our country (as Christians are doing)right now.  The second Muslims gain power over our government as Christians have, I can assure you, we'll be all over them.

And to top that off, chances are that none of the atheists here have been beaten bloody by Muslims but don't lay any bets that none of us have been hospitalized by Christians for our absence of belief.  

When vandals are in your back yard, spray painting your car, you deal with them.  You don't sit back and decide to do or say nothing until you can do something about every criminal in existence, you deal with the vandals in your yard.  And Christians are the vandals in our yard who've beaten and abused us - physically, emotionally, economically, and politically.  

And you're crying like a baby because you saw a t-shirt?

[Hitsumei]

Not that I'm siding with Psalm23 ('cuz I'm not), but feeling has its place.

Reason is slave to the passions.

[Sophus]

I don't know for 100% fact that it is God. But I believe it is. I have that gut feeling, ya know?  

Hmm... feeling versus thought. I wonder which is more accurate?

Not that I'm siding with Psalm23 ('cuz I'm not), but feeling has its place.

Sure there's nothing wrong with feeling in personal life. But when you're trying to come to a rational conclusion on something, feeling is just bias and needs to be ignored. If our President made every decision based on a feeling or "good vibe" we would deem him a fruit loop and become very upset with him. If your doctor gave you a treatment giving you his reasoning "I got a good feeling about this one" you would hopefully run away. Feelings accomplish nothing other than helping keep you alive at times.

I certainly didn't use thought to fall in love with my wife.

I did. Love is not a feeling. Not true love anyways. What most consider love is just your brain on drugs when you meet someone new. That's why so many marriages don't last. You need to think rationally when in love otherwise it's just an attraction.

There is sure alot of hatred towards someone they don't believe in.

We make quasi-religious statements. Doesn't mean I hate your God. I can't hate him anymore than one can hate any other fictional character. I do, however, despise those who created your God and use him for their own perverted actions and prejudice.

[maestroanth]

F

[Psalm23]

Psalm 23-- I have been reading all the posts in this thread for the past couple days and I must say, you seem like you aren't even trying! This is one of the most disappointing arguments against atheism I have ever seen in my life.

Wendy,

It's not an argument, it's the truth.

Atheism has failed on every possible level..

No human being can say, "There is no God" or "I don't believe in God" without having 100% proof!

Modern day atheists take it one step further!
They like to go online and protest against religion and God. I'm sorry to inform you, but that's not the definition of atheism.

If I didn't believe in something.. I'd be damned if I would waste my life away online talking about it. That seems boring if you ask me.

Is it normal to discuss things you don't believe in? Do you visit website forums that discuss aliens and UFO's and tell them UFO's and aliens do not exist?

There is something about God's existence that drives atheists over the edge. I know of more atheists that talk about God more than the average Christian believer.  

I'm writing a new book called, "Atheism; the obsession of God's existence."

[liveyoungdiefast]

Atheism isn't saying "I have 100% proof God doesn't exist", it's saying "I can't prove unicorns and wizards and giant worms living inside the sun don't exist, but I can use my rationality to feel they don't exist with a level of certainty. Also this forum isn't hostile towards agnostics, deists, and even you have your free speech here.  

 Personally I'm quite open minded to the idea of a God out there, but I'm an atheist for the Christian God and all other gods mankind made in their image. And I also use my rationality to infer that if there is a god out there then it is concerned with more important things than our beliefs or our 'sins'.

 I didn't make this forum but let me see if I can explain the reasoning of the person who did - they noticed there were a thousand religious forums so why not one for atheists to gather on. If one lives in an extremely religious part of the world the internet is probably the only place they can exchange their thoughts.

 And you're somewhat obsessed with our 'obsession'. Fail.