parallel universes

[joy_landlocked]

i've been thinking about parallel universes.

if there are parallel universes in which the laws of physics, the constants, can be totally different...  could there be a parallel universe in which the consciousness of something living actually does survive physical death?  assuming life and death also work somewhat the same in that universe, and assuming anything can evolve in a place with different physical laws.

please, scientists, philosophers, help me out here.

there's got to be some reason why that wouldn't work.  and if it could work, well, does that mean anything to us?

[Wechtlein Uns]

Hi Joylandlocked, welcome to the forums!

I must say, I was surprised by the content of your post. I too have given some thought to parrallel universes, though never quite like that. I believe there were recently some experiments done in vienna that proved something akin to there being parrallel universes, though without the different physics. Basically, the experiments showed that in quantum mechanics, when a particle randomly selects a state to be in, it is actually unfolding all possible states into existence. Remarkably, particles don't randomly "choose" their states, but rather all possible states separate from the particle cloud and exist in their own classical reality. What this means for us is that there are an infinite number of classical realities existing on the quantum scale, of which our reality is just one tiny, insignificant branch.

The difference, I think between these "classical realities" and parrallel universes, however, is that they are not separated by distance. It's all layered one on top of another in some quasi-multi-dimensional space. Of course, we don't see or experience these other realities because we can only see in three dimensions and our senses are not accurate enough to detect the subtle differences between branch and branch.

However, let's say we could see in 5 dimensions. What that would mean is that as we go about our day and life, we would see "phantom phenomena" that would take place in those upper two dimensions. We might be waking down the street and see ourselves driving down the street, if only for a minute. Of course, if our senses were that acute, then our brains would have evolved quite differently, to intake the data not just from our classical reality, but from others as well. It really is fascinating.

As for the mind surviving the body in another reality, keep in mind that our "souls" are a product of matter, and the laws of physics, no matter what they are, work with what exists. So if there is something like a sould in a parrallel universe, it would probably be so completely different from what we think of as a "soul" that it would hardly apply.

As for the experiments in vienna, they showed that the laws of physics are remarkably constant throughout these classical realities.

[Sophus]

A universe wouldn't necessarily have to be parallel to ours in order to exist. Our universe is massive and expanding. But that's only in comparison to us. If there's something beyond our universe, other universes could be so far apart they wouldn't run into each other for a very long time. However I think it's likely we have parallel universes due to the theory of our owns shape. Anyways....

....having never seen anything other than our own universe we can never know the possibilities or limitations of another universe. So I say, yes. It is possible.

[joy_landlocked]

However, let's say we could see in 5 dimensions. What that would mean is that as we go about our day and life, we would see "phantom phenomena" that would take place in those upper two dimensions. We might be waking down the street and see ourselves driving down the street, if only for a minute. Of course, if our senses were that acute, then our brains would have evolved quite differently, to intake the data not just from our classical reality, but from others as well. It really is fascinating.

hmm...  interesting.

i've heard a little about it before, and i don't think i quite understand how we'd see the "phantom phenomena"; would we see every little thing that could be, all at once, overlapping, or would just certain little things bleed through?  and why would we only see some things, and why would those things be more easily seen than others?

haha, i guess without a mythology to be baffled and intrigued by, this sci-fi-sounding stuff is what i turn to...

As for the mind surviving the body in another reality, keep in mind that our "souls" are a product of matter, and the laws of physics, no matter what they are, work with what exists. So if there is something like a sould in a parrallel universe, it would probably be so completely different from what we think of as a "soul" that it would hardly apply.

you make a good point.  and if the laws of physics were different there, we probably couldn't even meaningfully perceive the phenomena of such a place.

As for the experiments in vienna, they showed that the laws of physics are remarkably constant throughout these classical realities.

do you think you could direct me to some reading material about these experiments?  i'd like to take a look.

[joy_landlocked]

A universe wouldn't necessarily have to be parallel to ours in order to exist. Our universe is massive and expanding. But that's only in comparison to us. If there's something beyond our universe, other universes could be so far apart they wouldn't run into each other for a very long time. However I think it's likely we have parallel universes due to the theory of our owns shape. Anyways....

....having never seen anything other than our own universe we can never know the possibilities or limitations of another universe. So I say, yes. It is possible.

if it is possible, then does that even mean anything to us?  i have a feeling the answer is "probably not", but it's still interesting to think about.  people think of god outside of everything, outside universes, across universes...  but if something as major as "life" after physical death could be different in a different universe with different laws and constants, well...  pretty much no concept of god that puts god outside of the boundaries of the universe can make any sense, can it?

[DennisK]

I usually block out any talk about other dimensions because my brain state couldn't compute this idea and I didn't want to process it anyway.  However, I am becoming more and more interested in the idea of other dimensions.  When you say parallel dimensions, are they all connected by time-space or is time-space a dimension?

I'm not trying to hijack, but theoretically time travel is possible.  If it has happened, could it not be hypothesized that by doing so, it would create another parallel dimension?  Therefore, every time something did time travel and made a "butterfly effect" in time, that reality would be split?  I don't mean to dumb down this thread, but I am very intrigued.

[joy_landlocked]

I usually block out any talk about other dimensions because my current brain state cannot compute this idea and I didn't want to process it anyway.  However, I am becoming more and more interested in the idea of other dimensions.  When you say parallel dimensions, are they all connected by time-space or is time-space a dimension?

I'm not trying to hijack, but theoretically time travel is possible.  If it has happened, could it not be hypothesized that by doing so, it would create another parallel dimension?  Therefore, every time something did time travel and made a "butterfly effect" in time, that reality would be split?  I don't mean to dumb down this thread, but I am very intrigued.

think about this: every time a quantum particle could do one of two things, reality splits.

boggles the mind.

we're talking parallel universes.  dimensions aren't places, they're...  okay, someone help me if i'm not explaining this well.  space has three dimensions: height, width, depth.  time is another dimension, one in which we can't move as easily, only foward (at this point).  it's hard to try to really imagine another dimension in which things can exist, since we're so used to just thinking about those four, but...

you know what, i saw this a while back on the history channel, and full episodes are available online...  
http://www.history.com/video.do?name=The_Universe&bcpid=1406608117&bclid=3857620001&bctid=3903033001
maybe it'll help.  it was a pretty decent episode, as a start and an overview, anyway.

[Wechtlein Uns]

I read about the vienna experiements in SEED magazine. You could try going to their home website and searching. But chances are the only way to get the article would be to buy the past issue. The article was on the cover, so it shouldn't be too hard to find.

[Sophus]

if it is possible, then does that even mean anything to us?  i have a feeling the answer is "probably not"....  

What I'm saying is we have nothing to compare our universe to. We can never know. So while it is possible for different natural laws to exist in other universes it would still be made possible by natural causes. Causes, at first we could not understand, but through investigation could be understood.

pretty much no concept of god that puts god outside of the boundaries of the universe can make any sense, can it?

Of course not, but that's kind of the point for theists. God is supernatural, thus doesn't have to meet reason's critique.

[karadan]

I think of the brain as an organic transponder/transceiver. I believe remote viewing and telepathy have something to them and shouldn't just be written off as hocus-pocus. We use mobile phones in order to speak with people around the world through an invisible connection. I see no reason why the brain cannot do exactly the same thing without the use of silicon.

Ever been in a crowded room, you look at someone and they look directly back at you? It is as if someone whispered into their ear and said, 'pssst, he's looking at you!!' I think that is a mild form of telekinesis. Our subconscious reached out and touched their sixth sense - like the throwback to a biological cave man relic of knowing you are being watched or hunted.

Why shouldn't the redundant 80% of our brain not be used for such purposes?

Because of this I think there may be credence to the theory of a soul outside of the body or at least a lasting energy pattern relic. I like to think certain materials can absorb the energy from an incident and then replay this when the conditions are right at various points in the future - hence, ghosts.

I prefer to look at all of this from a scientific standpoint rather than an ethereal one, though.

If the multiple universe theory is correct then anything is possible really. The further back you go where history branches significantly from ours, the more weird and inexplicable it would seem to a human and our basis of understanding.

[joy_landlocked]

I think of the brain as an organic transponder/transceiver. I believe remote viewing and telepathy have something to them and shouldn't just be written off as hocus-pocus. We use mobile phones in order to speak with people around the world through an invisible connection. I see no reason why the brain cannot do exactly the same thing without the use of silicon.

Ever been in a crowded room, you look at someone and they look directly back at you? It is as if someone whispered into their ear and said, 'pssst, he's looking at you!!' I think that is a mild form of telekinesis. Our subconscious reached out and touched their sixth sense - like the throwback to a biological cave man relic of knowing you are being watched or hunted.

Why shouldn't the redundant 80% of our brain not be used for such purposes?

Because of this I think there may be credence to the theory of a soul outside of the body or at least a lasting energy pattern relic. I like to think certain materials can absorb the energy from an incident and then replay this when the conditions are right at various points in the future - hence, ghosts.

I prefer to look at all of this from a scientific standpoint rather than an ethereal one, though.

If the multiple universe theory is correct then anything is possible really. The further back you go where history branches significantly from ours, the more weird and inexplicable it would seem to a human and our basis of understanding.

if i'd ever seen any conclusive evidence of any of these phenomena, it would be so much easier to work out this multiple-universe-afterlife issue.  but i haven't.  nothing that can't be written off as confirmation bias or some other psychological trick or misfiring.

but in those multiple universes, going back along those branches, you're still in the same type of universe.  same physical laws.

[karadan]

Indeed, if we could travel to any of those branches, they would still be on our planet - from our perspective - which was created using the same form of physics that we see today.

That, however, does not discount the possibility of the universe itself forming in a slightly different fashion at the very beginning of it's existence. If you were to go back far enough to that branch, stuff today would be very abstract, i'm sure. It could also just be a universe full of hydrogen and dark matter, but with insufficient quantities where the coagulation of black holes, galaxies, stars and solar systems never happens.

Who is to say that physics itself doesn't change from galaxy to galaxy either?  

[DennisK]

What if everyone's perspective of the universe were actually a separate universe?  You define everything within your everything.  We are taught that attitude is everything.  When we are happy and confident, anything can be accomplished.  The same effect can happen in the opposite when depressed and/or angry.  Could this be due to a tangible power to alter our own lives or personal universe?

I guess I can test this idea by deciding what your response will be as you all probably only exist in my mind.  Go ahead and respond, however, I already know what the content will be since it is my universe.

[karadan]

What if everyone's perspective of the universe were actually a separate universe?  You define everything within your everything.  We are taught that attitude is everything.  When we are happy and confident, anything can be accomplished.  The same effect can happen in the opposite when depressed and/or angry.  Could this be due to a tangible power to alter our own lives or personal universe?

I guess I can test this idea by deciding what your response will be as you all probably only exist in my mind.  Go ahead and respond, however, I already know what the content will be since it is my universe.

Haha! I'll drink to that!