Contridictions in the Bible

[Man-ofGod]

Blah!  I'll bite.

This isn't technically a contradiction, just an "eh, what?" situation.
In Exodus 4:11, God says plainly that he makes people deaf, dumb and blind.
In Leviticus 21:17-23, God (through Moses) tells Aaron he doesn't want anyone with any kind of disability to offer sacrifices or even approach the alter.  God actually says this would be profaning his sanctuaries.

Now, while God is free to maim people and then say he considers their presence profane because they are maimed, it doesn't make sense.

Exodus 4:10-11

10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before nor since You have spoken to Your servant; but I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.”
11 So the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the LORD? 12 Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say.”

He is not saying he creates people w/ defects, but is simply trying to illustrate to Moses how silly it is for Moses to doupt him.  To paraphrase "Am i not the creator of your very being?" Someone may be blind, but he still their creator.  Someone may be lame, but he is still their creator.

Now on to Leviticus.

The things concerning the tabernacle were only a shadow of things to happen in heaven.


Hebrews 8:4-6

4 If he were here on earth, he would not even be a priest, since there already are priests who offer the gifts required by the law. 5 They serve in a system of worship that is only a copy, a shadow of the real one in heaven. For when Moses was getting ready to build the Tabernacle, God gave him this warning: “Be sure that you make everything according to the pattern I have shown you here on the mountain.”[a]

 6 But now Jesus, our High Priest, has been given a ministry that is far superior to the old priesthood, for he is the one who mediates for us a far better covenant with God, based on better promises.

Leviticus 21:21

No man of the descendants of Aaron the priest, who has a defect, shall come near to offer the offerings made by fire to the LORD.

The Hight Priest entering the most holy part of the earthly sanctuary was to be an sillouete of the perfection of the High Priest entering into the Most Holy part of the heavenly sanctuary.  Which in our case is Jesus who is atoning for our sins.

[SSY]

Please answer the pi question, I would be interested to hear.

[Hitsumei]

Please answer the pi question, I would be interested to hear.

Just google some apologetic responses for it. That's all he's going to do.

[MikeyV]

This again is a cop out and is not logical. There is nothing ever that I can say that will prove the infallibility of the Bible in your eyes.

Correct. It is impossible to prove infallibility where none exists. Just as you can never prove to me that the Earth is only 6000 years old. In order to prove either of these, they would have to be true, which they clearly aren't.

Even if everything in the Bible is true and perfect (which I believe it is) their is nothing you are willing to accept.

If it were "true and perfect" we wouldn't be having this discussion right now. I'd still be a christian.

people like to be right, but you cannot argue with perfection.

I wouldn't argue with perfection. But I will argue against ignorance, and the spreading of christian propaganda and dogmatism amongst my fellow humans. I care too much about people to let the self flagellating, self congratulating, know-nothings of the church spread their tripe among them. My only solace is that you and your ilk are a very small minority among christians. Most christians do not accept that the bible is infallible.

So all arguments against it are shot down.

No, not a one has been shot down. They end with the religionist cramming his fingers in his ears and screaming "LALALALALALA, I can't hear you! See you can't refute my argument!, Now I will go find someone else to use these said same dead arguments against!". I suppose that that qualifies as a YEC "win".

The uniformity - despite 66 books being written by 40 different authors in a vast time span, the Bible is incredibly uniform.

Except even the apostles can't agree on anything. If that's uniformity to you, you have an amazingly low threshold for proof.

Historical accuracy (not even an argument btw w/ secular scholars) watch the history channel lately?

Such as the Exodus, which even Jewish scholars admit didn't happen? Which shows are you specifically talking about? I've only seen the ones in which much hopeful speculation is bandied about. Much ado about nothing.

Scientifically accurate (not even talking creation here, just normal facts that weren't known in that time.)

The sun standing still? Pi = 3? Mustard seed is the smallest seed? I must have missed the "science" part.

Prophecy fulfillment (but the willfully ignorant will just look past this)

Ah yes. The apostles and modern apologist try to shoehorn Jesus into prophecies, and when they are disproven, it must be that the debunkers are willfully ignorant.  

Health ethics - The health ethics in the Bible are flawless. Another testimony to the truth of the Bible.

Taking health tips from Bronze Age goat herders, seems like a good idea. Almost as good as Homeopathy, and just as effective.

Moral ethics - again, perfection and the reason most people rather not believe in the Bible IMO

So, when I sell my daughter to my neighbor, how much do you think I should get for her? If angels visit my home, and an angry mob forms outside and wants to have sex with them, do I give them my daughter? If children make fun of my receding hairline, is it okay to pray to have bears maul them? Is it OK to beat my slave as long as I don't kill her?

You know, I could probably find some good passages in Mein Kampf, but I wouldn't use it as any sort of guide for morality.

Not patronizing - the Bible does not try to win you with concessions, its either all or none w/ the Bible

Believe or burn. "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God". Sounds rather patronizing to me.

The contents - the Bible is written just like an encyclopedia, just reporting the facts.

The facts of talking snakes and donkeys, men living inside big fish, men putting all of the worlds animals on a boat in pairs - no wait, almost forgot sacrificial laws, better amend that in a later section to pairs and sevens, the sun stopping in the sky, ad nauseum...

I'm done speaking to you. Come back when you have new material. You know, something not on Answers in Genesis.

The simple fact that you brought up polonium halos proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. This means you are a troll, a Poe, or you are a newly minted YECer that hasn't gotten tired of his arguments getting shredded.

[MikeyV]

To MCQ, Lae and whoever else is a mod in this section, sorry that my last post was a little caustic. I'll tone it down.

It just galls me that this guy can't even be bothered to read the past posts in these forums where this crap has been hashed, hashed, and rehashed to death.

I'm done posting in this specific thread. This guy is too far gone.

[BuckeyeInNC]

In Leviticus 21:17-23, God (through Moses) tells Aaron he doesn't want anyone with any kind of disability to offer sacrifices or even approach the alter.  God actually says this would be profaning his sanctuaries.

Now, while God is free to maim people and then say he considers their presence profane because they are maimed, it doesn't make sense.

Exodus 4:10-11

10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before nor since You have spoken to Your servant; but I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.”
11 So the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the LORD? 12 Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say.”

He is not saying he creates people w/ defects, but is simply trying to illustrate to Moses how silly it is for Moses to doupt him.  To paraphrase "Am i not the creator of your very being?" Someone may be blind, but he still their creator.  Someone may be lame, but he is still their creator.

Man-ofGod,

Did you read what PipeBox wrote?  Obviously not.

PipeBox is pointing out that it is RIDICULOUS for god to make the mute, the deaf, the seeing, and the blind AND THEN TO CONSIDER THEM PROFANE.

If you cannot see this, you are beyond hope and are a complete simpleton.

[Man-ofGod]

In Leviticus 21:17-23, God (through Moses) tells Aaron he doesn't want anyone with any kind of disability to offer sacrifices or even approach the alter.  God actually says this would be profaning his sanctuaries.

Now, while God is free to maim people and then say he considers their presence profane because they are maimed, it doesn't make sense.

Exodus 4:10-11

10 Then Moses said to the LORD, “O my Lord, I am not eloquent, neither before nor since You have spoken to Your servant; but I am slow of speech and slow of tongue.”
11 So the LORD said to him, “Who has made man’s mouth? Or who makes the mute, the deaf, the seeing, or the blind? Have not I, the LORD? 12 Now therefore, go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall say.”

He is not saying he creates people w/ defects, but is simply trying to illustrate to Moses how silly it is for Moses to doupt him.  To paraphrase "Am i not the creator of your very being?" Someone may be blind, but he still their creator.  Someone may be lame, but he is still their creator.

Man-ofGod,

Did you read what PipeBox wrote?  Obviously not.

PipeBox is pointing out that it is RIDICULOUS for god to make the mute, the deaf, the seeing, and the blind AND THEN TO CONSIDER THEM PROFANE.

If you cannot see this, you are beyond hope and are a complete simpleton.

Have you read my post? you assume that God made them mute, it does not say that.  God created man, God is our creator, thats all that is saying.  Your reading into something that is not there.  The lame, Mute is a defect, as a result of the fall of man.  Again you want to cling on to as a contradiction because you always want to be right.  No one ever wants to concede.

[Man-ofGod]

Please answer the pi question, I would be interested to hear.

Trying to, its difficult to get to everything when its me vs everyone.  But I am trying.

[curiosityandthecat]

Have you read my post? you assume that God made them mute, it does not say that.  God created man, God is our creator, thats all that is saying.  Your reading into something that is not there.  The lame, Mute is a defect, as a result of the fall of man.  Again you want to cling on to as a contradiction because you always want to be right.  No one ever wants to concede.

So, quick question... a virtuous woman falls on hard times, gets raped, has a mute/deaf/dumb/whatever baby who grows up ridiculed, taunted and lives a painful life, but is essentially a good person. Another wicked woman gets raped by the same man and has a healthy baby who grows up to be spiteful, hateful but lives a life of luxury and doesn't do anything absolutely terrible, nothing that would send him to Hell, he's just a douche.

Where's God in this? Does God love them both equally? Perfectly? I'm just curious about the gymnastics you're going to pull to explain this one.

Trying to, its difficult to get to everything when its me vs everyone. But I am trying.

You started it.

[Man-ofGod]

Please answer the pi question, I would be interested to hear.

Just google some apologetic responses for it. That's all he's going to do.

Exactly.  In fact let me do just that.

[Man-ofGod]

not following?

Let's break it down then, shall we?

I Kings 7:23-26: "He made the Sea of cast metal, circular in shape, measuring ten cubits from rim to rim and five cubits high. It took a line of thirty cubits to measure around it. Below the rim, gourds encircled it - ten to a cubit. The gourds were cast in two rows in one piece with the Sea. The Sea stood on twelve bulls, three facing north, three facing west, three facing south and three facing east. The Sea rested on top of them, and their hindquarters were toward the center. It was a handbreadth in thickness, and its rim was like the rim of a cup, like a lily blossom. It held two thousand baths."

That would be the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter, or pi. That ratio works out to be 30:10 or 3. Considering that ancient Babylonians, Egyptians, Greeks, and a slew of other civilizations knew that pi is not 3, the Hebrew god has no excuse for his error. So that means one of two things. Either the Hebrew god doesn't understand geometry, or a fallible human being wrote that passage. If a fallible human wrote it, he made a mathematical error, ergo, the bible is fallible, Q.E.D.

Que the mental gymnastics in 5, 4, 3...

Good point, and one I was not prepared for.  Nevertheless, this article has some valid points concerning the "Pi dilemma"

http://www.abarim-publications.com/Bibl ... s7v23.html

[Man-ofGod]

So, quick question... a virtuous woman falls on hard times, gets raped, has a mute/deaf/dumb/whatever baby who grows up ridiculed, taunted and lives a painful life, but is essentially a good person. Another wicked woman gets raped by the same man and has a healthy baby who grows up to be spiteful, hateful but lives a life of luxury and doesn't do anything absolutely terrible, nothing that would send him to Hell, he's just a douche.

Where's God in this? Does God love them both equally? Perfectly? I'm just curious about the gymnastics you're going to pull to explain this one.

No gymnastics, the answer is yes.

You started it. :hide2:

[curiosityandthecat]

So a perfectly loving and just God sends both the unfortunate blind and deaf guy to the same heaven as the rich douche?

[Man-ofGod]

I wouldn't argue with perfection. But I will argue against ignorance, and the spreading of christian propaganda and dogmatism amongst my fellow humans. I care too much about people to let the self flagellating, self congratulating, know-nothings of the church spread their tripe among them. My only solace is that you and your ilk are a very small minority among christians. Most christians do not accept that the bible is infallible.

The fact that most Christians do not accept the Bible as infallible is why so many fall away from Christ.  No one wants to believe in partiality. So if seemingly Christian people reject this premise, what is the point in believing its writings?

No, not a one has been shot down. They end with the religionist cramming his fingers in his ears and screaming "LALALALALALA, I can't hear you! See you can't refute my argument!, Now I will go find someone else to use these said same dead arguments against!". I suppose that that qualifies as a YEC "win".

Look in the mirror on this one.

Except even the apostles can't agree on anything. If that's uniformity to you, you have an amazingly low threshold for proof.

Oh I see, you are one of those who are expecting to see everything exactly the same in all four gospels.  I am sure this would show that the Gospels are not fabricated.  :raised:[/quote]
Example?

Taking health tips from Bronze Age goat herders, seems like a good idea. Almost as good as Homeopathy, and just as effective.

I am glad you said that.  This very point is a miracle you can witness yourself.  The fact that the authors are just goat herders puts more emphasis on the divine inspiration.

Seventh Day adventist is a Bible Group who follows the health laws in the Bible and are attributed w/ living the longest on average.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seventh-da ... h_and_diet

and see paragraph 8 of

http://health.usnews.com/articles/healt ... l?PageNr=2

So, when I sell my daughter to my neighbor, how much do you think I should get for her? If angels visit my home, and an angry mob forms outside and wants to have sex with them, do I give them my daughter? If children make fun of my receding hairline, is it okay to pray to have bears maul them? Is it OK to beat my slave as long as I don't kill her?

No one said that Lot was not a sinner. What he did there was wrong.  The only perfect being in the Bible is Jesus.

Inspiration faithfully records the faults of good men, those who were distinguished by the favour of God; indeed, their faults are more fully presented than their virtues. This has been a subject of wonder to many, and has given the infidel occasion to scoff at the Bible. But it is one of the strongest evidences of the truth of Scripture, that facts are not glossed over, nor the sins of its chief characters suppressed. The minds of men are so subject to prejudice that it is not possible for human histories to be absolutely impartial. Had the Bible been written by uninspired persons, it would no doubt have presented the character of its honoured men in a more flattering light. But as it is, we have a correct record of their experiences.

You know, I could probably find some good passages in Mein Kampf, but I wouldn't use it as any sort of guide for morality.

I am glad to hear that.

Believe or burn. "The fool has said in his heart, there is no God". Sounds rather patronizing to me.

Doesn't seem that way to me.

The facts of talking snakes and donkeys, men living inside big fish, men putting all of the worlds animals on a boat in pairs - no wait, almost forgot sacrificial laws, better amend that in a later section to pairs and sevens, the sun stopping in the sky, ad nauseum...

See above

I'm done speaking to you. Come back when you have new material. You know, something not on Answers in Genesis.

The simple fact that you brought up polonium halos proves that you have no idea what you are talking about. This means you are a troll, a Poe, or you are a newly minted YECer that hasn't gotten tired of his arguments getting shredded.

Bringing up polonium halos demonstrates that I do not know what I am talking about?
 

[Man-ofGod]

So a perfectly loving and just God sends both the unfortunate blind and deaf guy to the same heaven as the rich douche?

God wants all his children to come to heaven. This is why he sent his son to die for our sins.  The Bible is clear that sinful man cannot stand in the presence of God with out being destroyed (a natural result in biblical terms).  Likewise the government of God cannot have sin in heaven.  Gods goal is to undo the damage that Satin started and bring the universe back to the perfection it once enjoyed.

Revelation 21:1

Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away