Christians, explain this one to me:

[Voter]

God's sense of justice was satisfied by Jesus' death.

He must be easily satisfied. Jesus is supposed to be alive isn't he? It doesn't count unless he stays in the ground. Oh, I forgot, theists can make up whatever they want to about God and then call it His 'sense of justice.'

What counts is what God says counts. Our opinions of the ease or difficulty is irrelevant.

[Loffler]

God's sense of justice was satisfied by Jesus' death.

He must be easily satisfied. Jesus is supposed to be alive isn't he? It doesn't count unless he stays in the ground. Oh, I forgot, theists can make up whatever they want to about God and then call it His 'sense of justice.'

What counts is what God says counts. Our opinions of the ease or difficulty is irrelevant.

Similarly, our opinions about religion in general are irrelevant. What matter are the facts, and there aren't any.


The Lord works in mysterious ways? No, the mind works in mysterious ways.

[Promethium147]

Loffler, you constantly provide me with great inspirations.

I realize that my great freedom arises from - constant analysis of my own mind.

Why should we bother to do anything else, first? Everything arises from it - harness the BASE THING, and all good things must follow!

[myleviathan]

God's sense of justice was satisfied by Jesus' death.

He must be easily satisfied. Jesus is supposed to be alive isn't he? It doesn't count unless he stays in the ground. Oh, I forgot, theists can make up whatever they want to about God and then call it His 'sense of justice.'

What counts is what God says counts. Our opinions of the ease or difficulty is irrelevant.

But think about it for a moment. Jesus was supposed to be the sacrificial lamb, right? To atone for the eternal consequence for sin? But he was only dead for three days? If Jesus comes back to life how can that be considered a sacrifice in any way?

[Loffler]

Loffler, you constantly provide me with great inspirations.

I realize that my great freedom arises from - constant analysis of my own mind.

Why should we bother to do anything else, first? Everything arises from it - harness the BASE THING, and all good things must follow!

You seem to exist in a constant state of epiphany.

But consider this: someone who is very stupid would not experience this fascination with their own thoughts, nor would someone who is very intelligent. Rather, this state of constant amazement arises from knowledge/intelligence inflation -- namely, someone who is rapidly ascending from a state of less knowledge or intelligence to a state of more of it.

[Promethium147]

You seem to exist in a constant state of epiphany.

Of course, it is in Fits and Starts, but it is RELATIVELY constant - more constant than most. Is this Bad? I call it - self-education. All education proceeds from a motivation - desire to learn. You can't get education without it.

But consider this: someone who is very stupid would not experience this fascination with their own thoughts, nor would someone who is very intelligent.

Huh? Are not the very, very stupid fascinated with their own thoughts - Fundies? Do they not discard the clear, cogent, useful thoughts of others?

If very intelligent, do we not realize that - we have very, very few thoughts that are original - we got it all from someone else, and our environment in general. We analyze these thoughts, and build what appears to be new, but it is all construct based upon pieces we were given. Intelligent as I am (my IQ scores, 'frinstance, place me at one in 9 to 11 million "souls"), I realize my thoughts are not my own.

It's absolutely not my fault - definitely nature and nurture. My parents were High Genius (and Juno), my many siblings likewise, my education early, thorough, and unrelenting. We have FOUND THE GENE that does this to us, at least the major one, that makes this so.

I can't claim one iota of credit - only responsibility.

Rather, this state of constant amazement arises from knowledge/intelligence inflation

YEP. Got that right - epiphany is cumulative, and effects exponential. Look around at the exponential rise of Man, and marvel.

I note here that you seem worried about - the possible negative results of too much intellectual pleasure, Ute! And you are abundantly correct in it.

-- namely, someone who is rapidly ascending from a state of less knowledge or intelligence to a state of more of it.

And it is very, very dangerous - but nothing ventured, nothing gained, eh?

The Joy of Learning is Great - but the Joy of Teaching is better.

At this point, I would, from Love, ask you to cohabit with me - but I see you already do, and I don't have to do your laundry!

XOXOXO,

----------------------------------

LUCIFER, the Creator!

[Voter]

But think about it for a moment. Jesus was supposed to be the sacrificial lamb, right? To atone for the eternal consequence for sin? But he was only dead for three days? If Jesus comes back to life how can that be considered a sacrifice in any way?

From dictionary.com:

1. the offering of animal, plant, or human life or of some material possession to a deity, as in propitiation or homage.  
2. the person, animal, or thing so offered.  

No requirement that the thing offered die and stay dead.

[myleviathan]

But think about it for a moment. Jesus was supposed to be the sacrificial lamb, right? To atone for the eternal consequence for sin? But he was only dead for three days? If Jesus comes back to life how can that be considered a sacrifice in any way?

From dictionary.com:

1. the offering of animal, plant, or human life or of some material possession to a deity, as in propitiation or homage.  
2. the person, animal, or thing so offered.  

No requirement that the thing offered die and stay dead.

Definition number 1 says: the offering of animal, plant, or HUMAN LIFE. Jesus didn't sacrifice his life if he rose on the third day. There was no loss, no sacrifice. How can that atone for sin if Jesus didn't even really die? Sounds like the stuff of myth to me...

[Voter]

Definition number 1 says: the offering of animal, plant, or HUMAN LIFE. Jesus didn't sacrifice his life if he rose on the third day.

Sure he did. Again, permanence is not a part of the definition.

There was no loss, no sacrifice. How can that atone for sin if Jesus didn't even really die? Sounds like the stuff of myth to me...

It can atone for sin if it satisfies God, which it did.

[myleviathan]

Then it sounds like Jesus tricked sin and death as opposed to defeating it. Since it's still around and all.

[Voter]

Then it sounds like Jesus tricked sin and death as opposed to defeating it. Since it's still around and all.

If you stop reading at the resurrection, I suppose it might seem that way.

[myleviathan]

Why? Sin and death are very much still a reality. Jesus tricked sin and death by resurrecting. How can the resurrection be considered a success with so much sin still in existence?

[Voter]

Why? Sin and death are very much still a reality. Jesus tricked sin and death by resurrecting. How can the resurrection be considered a success with so much sin still in existence?

If you read on to the end of Revelation, you'll see that sin and death are done away with for the saved.

[Loffler]

Why? Sin and death are very much still a reality. Jesus tricked sin and death by resurrecting. How can the resurrection be considered a success with so much sin still in existence?

If you read on to the end of Revelation, you'll see that sin and death are done away with for the saved.

So Jesus hasn't even delivered on his promise yet.


Let me paint you a picture:

Cult leader claims to be messiah and the king of the Jews from prophecy. Instead, he gets crucified.

His followers gave up their lives to follow him, so they need a solution. So they change the story: now he came back to life. Turns out he died for our sins! He paid our blood atonement. Now you just have to accept him as your Lord and savior by joining our religion.

Ok, sounds great! So where is he?

Oh, he, uh, ascended into heaven.

So wait, he didn't save the Jews?

Oh, that. Well, see... don't worry, he'll come back.

When?

Soon, before this generation is dead.

Then decades pass and the old men who were promised salvation notice Jesus hasn't come back in their lifetime as promised (here and here). So they ask: "There's still sin and death in the world. Why haven't they disappeared?" This time they're told: "Oh, uh... yeah, that stuff will go away at the end of time."

[myleviathan]

Why? Sin and death are very much still a reality. Jesus tricked sin and death by resurrecting. How can the resurrection be considered a success with so much sin still in existence?

If you read on to the end of Revelation, you'll see that sin and death are done away with for the saved.

I've read the majority of the Bible - several times. I know what's supposed to happen. It just doesn't make sense. I agree with Loffler (surprised about that, aren't you?!). The Biblical authors really left us with a cliff-hanger given that no one, not even Jesus, knows the time and date He's supposed to come back. So for thousands of years Christians have been prepared with their lamp lit on cold nights, prepared for the end times. End times that will never end.