Military

[MikeyV]

I have a friend now, just enlisted in the army and seems to think she'll be advanced to E-6 by her two year mark.  She claims that type of advancement is guaranteed in her contract.  It's bullshit, but she just gets pissed when I tell her.

Ever heard of the CASP? E-6 in two years is not only possible, but highly likely. However, if she's active, you're right, she probably won't make 6 in 2 years. Even coming in as an E-4, and getting promoted in secondary zone, she'd need 48 months Time in Service and 5 months Time in Grade. Guess she should have read her contract.

My niece, the Navy paid for her college and told her she only owes them 4 years.  That's a lie.  All Officer commissions are at least 8 years active duty when they pay for your school.  More depending on what designator you choose.

You are just talking about the Navy here, right? It's not that way in all branches. Everyone gets a Mandatory Service Obligation (MSO) of 8 years. Officers, Warrants, Enlisted, it doesn't matter. But, your MSO is not the same as your contractual obligation. Each branch handles contracts differently.

The Army National Guard will pay for $50,000 of your college, and only requires a 3 year contractual obligation. They'll pay another $75,000 if you contract for another 3 years after the first 3. Still 2 years shy of 8 years, no?

Just as with buying a car or house, you need to read your contract. I don't have much sympathy with those that don't and then whine about how screwed they got.

Also, signing up for the military is a terrifying, potentially lethal commitment.

So is signing up for law enforcement, fire fighting, medevac pilot, trapeze artist, etc... Hell, you have a better chance of getting killed driving to the supermarket than I do of dying in Iraq. And I was most certainly not "terrified" when I signed up.

The military exploits vulnerabilities of humanity: youthful naivete and aggression, longing for adventure or redemption.

Longing for adventure is a vulnerability? I'm pretty sure it would be classified as a desire. Hospitals, Fortune 500's, Border Patrol, Customs, law firms, etc, use the same tactics for recruiting that the military does. The recruiter finds out what your wants, needs, and desires are and tries to sell you that part of the package.

I'll tell you what's naive, thinking that people join the military only for the four reasons you listed. The reasons for joining are just as varied as the people who serve.

[MikeyV]

I'm curious... are there any military officers here which, for their lack of faith, were ostracized or shunned or mistreated in any way? The recent case in the news about the atheist soldier has me a bit concerned.

I'm not an officer, but I haven't had any problems. It doesn't really ever come up. We had a company commander who insisted that everyone pray during formations. One soldier went to the Inspector General, and the State Adjutant General (2 star) removed her from command.

One of my good friends, who oddly enough is a chaplain, is a fire and brimstone Baptist. He has never tried to convert me. He says it's not his place to do so. If I need something, I can go to him, and he'll help out. Of course, we've never discussed my feelings about military chaplains. I don't think they should exist. It amounts to state sponsored religion in my opinion. But, they can be useful at times.

[Jolly Sapper]

Heheh.. sounds like somebody hit a nerve on ya  
Of course, you're less likely to be blown into different parts of the countryside if you die while working on a trapeze.

[Loffler]

The reasons for joining are just as varied as the people who serve.

That's for sure.

[MikeyV]

Heheh.. sounds like somebody hit a nerve on ya  

Four years active army and the only people I ever heard of who even came remotely close to getting their E-6 in a few years went ranger/spec forces while they were E-2.

There was a guy in my Special Forces Assessment and Selection course that came in an E4 (2 years college). He went to Infantry OSUT, and then Airborne. Then SFAS. He went to PLDC (WLC now) and got E5 right after that. Then he went to the SFQ course, which counts as BNCOC, and made E6 right after. Little less than a year and a half. Of course, promotions work differently now, and that was an SF track...

I wonder if the NG/Reservist GIBILL works the same as the Regular Army GIBILL.  My contract stated "up to xxx amount" of college money but after I got out and started using the GIBILL all of my paperwork says 39 months of tuition entitlement (reduced for every month of school I attend based on the number of class hours enrolled in.)

It's pretty much the same. I used the Regular Army GI Bill, too. But, my wife used her Guard Bill.

So is signing up for law enforcement, fire fighting, medevac pilot, trapeze artist, etc... Hell, you have a better chance of getting killed driving to the supermarket than I do of dying in Iraq.

Sure, if you never leave the wire  

The point was, the Military is not the only dangerous occupation that people choose. and I was miffed over this statement:

The military exploits vulnerabilities of humanity: youthful naivete and aggression, longing for adventure or redemption. Also, signing up for the military is a terrifying, potentially lethal commitment.

As though someone who has never served has some special insight into the minds of those who have. That statement is pure speculation, shows the poster's bias, and demonstrates a clear lack of understanding of the motivators behind joining the military. And we accuse fundies of painting with a broad brush.

[Loffler]

If you were a truck driver, heavy equipment operator, medical specialist (x-ray tech, respiratory therapist, etc...), aviation mechanic, or a whole host of other civilian occupations that translate directly to an Army MOS, you can come in and as soon as you graduate Basic, you can be promoted to E4,

If you don't die.

sometimes E5.

If you don't die.

With the way Guard promotions work, you could make E6 shortly thereafter.

If you don't die.

Of course, with the way Guard promotions work, you could retire as an E4

If you don't die.

[Loffler]

Well, yeah. I can't stand people outside an organization using dime-store psycho analysis on the members of that organization.

Oh, give yourself some credit. You're doing a great job standing it.

If someone doesn't like an organization, that's fine. But one shouldn't presume to know the motivators behind joining said organization.

What's to know? If someone's value in their own life is such that they're willing to join the military, I trust their judgment. You say that's what your life is worth, I believe you.

Personally, my awesome health, physical fitness and intelligence (and humility!) will never come anywhere near a military recruiter. I consider this an extremely moral decision and I derive a great deal of self-righteous gratitude from it; I should salute myself. I will also try my hardest to prevent my children from joining.

[Jolly Sapper]

Bah, no need to have such thin skin.  You have one opinion and so does everybody else, and not everybody's smells as sweet as your own  

[MikeyV]

Bah, no need to have such thin skin.  You have one opinion and so does everybody else, and not everybody's smells as sweet as your own  

To whom was this directed?

[Tanker]

I was in the army for over five years. In fact I just got out in March. I did two tours in Iraq as a Tanker (name makes sense now I guess) My time in the Army were some of the best and worst experiences of my life. I'm glad I'm out but sometimes I miss it. Where else will someone pay you to blow shit up. I loved my job but I hated my employer. I never had much trouble with being an Atheist I just made sure anyone who might have had a problem with it knew that I woulden't take their crap about it, regardless of rank.

[Jolly Sapper]

@ MikeV.. more like words of wisdom released into the wild

@Tanker.. Preachin' to the choir!

[EvolutionCalling]

Thanks.

@ Jolly Sapper.

 

[Squid]

I was a Lithographer in the Navy (1996-2000).  Came out as an E-4, with a few medals, some commendations, money for college, an ex-wife and a high tolerance for whiskey.

[shedaytrips]

My hubby has been serving in at the Air Force for 6 years now. While it does get lonely sometimes, It really is over all a great life. I mean our son gets to grow up in Japan. That alone is worth it.

[myleviathan]

Has anybody heard of the book "There are no atheists in foxholes"? How rediculous.