Ding Dong, the W(B)itch is dead

[Kona]

Might I remind you all that Hillary Clinton voted for and supported the War in Iraq. Out of conscience, I could never vote for such a person. The war is one of the most serious moral questions of our time. Also, she is notorious for being in the pockets of big business. Basically Hillary is just another professional politician at work, another ruling-class goon that will do little to alter the status quo. Ho hum.

This is exactly how it is despite her proclamation that she will not allow her corporate sponsors to influence her decisions where they are concerned.  :bs:  

You don't bring about serious change in Washington by allowing the insiders like Hillary to continue the long line of insider procession to the throne.  Besides her feeling entitled (as does McCain) to be CiC, I just don't think major change is going to happen if she becomes CiC. Congress is not going to rubberstamp everything she sends up to the Hill.  Universal health care through a single-payer system is going to be DOA just like it was the first time she tried it.   She and Obama are grossly underestimating the power of the healthcare-industrial complex, the economic cost, and the resistance of people who already have good coverage (like me).   It ain't happenin!

I'm beginning to think Obama may be the better choice simply from the standpoint that he lacks all of the insider experience which so easily taints most politicians.  And let's hope if he is elected, he doesn't follow through on his foreign policy naivety and meet with all the petty foreign dictators as he has mentioned on several occasions.  Chavez, Morales, Castro, Ahmadine-jihad....can you imagine what a disaster that would be?

Where is Teddy Roosevelt when you need him?

[heavenandhell]

Well frankly..anyone that supports that war needs to NOT sit in a seat of power.  I dont believe that it should have been made into the situation that is now.  

Looks like she is going to lose it anyway...  Obama was a given once he got the Kennedy nod of approval.

[Smarmy Of One]

Might I remind you all that Hillary Clinton voted for and supported the War in Iraq. Out of conscience, I could never vote for such a person. The war is one of the most serious moral questions of our time. Also, she is notorious for being in the pockets of big business. Basically Hillary is just another professional politician at work, another ruling-class goon that will do little to alter the status quo. Ho hum.

I agree with you whole heartedly on your views on the Iraq invasion, but it is my understanding that the vote was not to go to war but a vote to give the president the right to declare war.

Bush swore on record that war would be a last resort. Most in the senate voted to give Bush the right to declare war as a bargaining chip against Saddam.

Of course none were aware at the time that all the allegations against Saddam were bogus.

One reason that lots of Americans seem to hate Hillary is because while she was 1st lady, she spearheaded a campaign for a national universal healthcare system for the US. Of course lobbyists for the pharmaceutical industry unleashed their Republican dogs on her and a smear campaign began. It is typically residents of the US that have an irrational distaste for Hillary because the corporate media inundates them with anti-Hillary propaganda. The saturation is such that people now hate her because of the color of dress she might have on.

Notice that usually people outside the US don't have so much of an issue with her. This is because they are not subject to the same anti-Hillary onslaughts as US residents.

Also many women hate her because she forgave Bill. apparently they see her as having no backbone because of this. I find this resentment especially ironic among christians, what with forgiveness being an alleged cornerstone of their beliefs an all.

[Smarmy Of One]

Ain't democracy grand?

Those are some really sour grapes. I've noticed this is pretty typical sentiment among right wing people when they can't have their way.

Maybe it's the will of the majority that you find objectionable since it is through majority votes that the people in the running are where they are.

Your contempt for democracy is disturbing.

[Kona]

Also many women hate her because she forgave Bill. apparently they see her as having no backbone because of this. I find this resentment especially ironic among christians, what with forgiveness being an alleged cornerstone of their beliefs an all.

I think women hate her because she leveraged her forgiveness for political gain.  Now she may get some sympathy votes for standing by her man.  Thanks Tammy Wynette!

[MommaSquid]

Those are some really sour grapes. I've noticed this is pretty typical sentiment among right wing people when they can't have their way.

Maybe it's the will of the majority that you find objectionable since it is through majority votes that the people in the running are where they are.

Your contempt for democracy is disturbing.

 

Really, Smarmy, you made me laugh out loud!

Can I help it if the majority is a bunch of idiots?  Just because the majority wants something and gets it doesn't make it a good thing.  And it doesn't make it right.  

People are generally sheep to be lead.  I don't classify myself that way.  If you find that disturbing, so be it.

Oh, and Hillary should be reviled for what she says and does, not for what other people (lobbyists included) say about her.  Her own words and actions speak volumes.

[Sophie]

Although Obama has been picking up steam, Clinton is still a possibility (obviously).  On the other side, we know it's almost sure that it's McCain.  I went to a bookstore yesterday and looked through their election display books.  The main one on McCain was "The Faith of My Fathers."  The title, along with the write-up on the back, were quite disturbing for obvious reasons.  The thing that grabbed me, though, was that he chose to not be traded out of Hanoi (I think that's where he was a POW) in a self-sacrificing move.  It talked about his faith, and how that's what got him through the torture, etc.  Ugh.  Sure, I respect him for what he went through and the service he gave for our country.  HOWEVER - it's just the sick motivation of religion that would make a person give up an opportunity to escape possible martyrdom.  WTF?  According to what I read, he wasn't taking someone else's place, it was just some sort of exchange between the military...  I should have probably taken more note of what exactly it was.  I don't think I would have gotten that much of a negative vibe if it had been him taking someone else's place.  That would have been heroic, etc, but this just seemed naive and sad.

Considering that McCain woult put a religious conservative judge on the Supreme Court (one is about to retire), the state/church separation would most likely crumble.  NOT good.  I liked McCain for financial issues, but I'm leaning back to the left.  So it's between Obama and Clinton.  I've read and spread a lot of vicious things about her - in all fairness, it's worth investigating a little further.  SO, I bought an unofficial biography of Hillary.  We'll see if I can make it through the whole thing without throwing the BS flag.  I'm going to research Obama, too - there's just so much mud being slung by everyone.  It's hard to know what's true.  No surprise there.

[MikeyV]

The thing that grabbed me, though, was that he chose to not be traded out of Hanoi (I think that's where he was a POW) in a self-sacrificing move.  It talked about his faith, and how that's what got him through the torture, etc.  Ugh.  Sure, I respect him for what he went through and the service he gave for our country.  HOWEVER - it's just the sick motivation of religion that would make a person give up an opportunity to escape possible martyrdom.  WTF?  According to what I read, he wasn't taking someone else's place, it was just some sort of exchange between the military...  I should have probably taken more note of what exactly it was.  I don't think I would have gotten that much of a negative vibe if it had been him taking someone else's place.  That would have been heroic, etc, but this just seemed naive and sad.

Not quite. His father was an admiral, so they would have let him go had he admitted to war crimes. He refused.

The other reason he didn't take the deal is because he had buddies in the Hilton with him. He didn't think it would be fair for him to leave and for them to have to stay.

It's more a military brotherhood thing than any sort of religious thing. He wasn't doing it for praise, acclaim, hero status or anything like that.

That's how we are trained. Don't leave a brother behind, don't accept special favor from the enemy, don't make silly "I am a war criminal videos".

It's not something I expect civilians to understand. I would like to think that I would have behaved the same way had I been in his position.

[Smarmy Of One]

Her own words and actions speak volumes.

And yet, no one has pointed out any specific words and actions.

I'm glad I was able to make you laugh.

Sorry I miss read you. It's not a contempt for democracy so much as contempt for humanity in general.

[Mister Joy]

And yet, no one has pointed out any specific words and actions.

This is a shame. I've been reading this with interest in the hope that some quotes would pop up, just because I really enjoy cringing at what politicians have to say. The feeling that I get when suppressed hatred for mankind is provoked to the surface so effortlessly by the words of one person is... pure ecstasy.

So far though, the health plan has been mentioned... is Hillary trying to push for nationalised health care again? If so, I'm decidedly right wing economically and despite this I can't disagree with her. :? I need my fix dammit.

[MommaSquid]

Her own words and actions speak volumes.

And yet, no one has pointed out any specific words and actions.

I don't have the desire or the time to go into details.  You can do your own research here:

http://www.ontheissues.org/Senate/Hillary_Clinton.htm

Sorry I miss read you. It's not a contempt for democracy so much as contempt for humanity in general.

Pretty much.  

[pjkeeley]

And yet, no one has pointed out any specific words and actions.

I did, have you read or acknowledged the points I raised for a start?

[Smarmy Of One]

I did, have you read or acknowledged the points I raised for a start?

Yes, and I responded here:

I agree with you whole heartedly on your views on the Iraq invasion, but it is my understanding that the vote was not to go to war but a vote to give the president the right to declare war.

Bush swore on record that war would be a last resort. Most in the senate voted to give Bush the right to declare war as a bargaining chip against Saddam.

Of course none were aware at the time that all the allegations against Saddam were bogus.

As far as being in the pockets of big business, that kind of doesn't count since ALL politicians are in someone's pockets.

One of the really innovative things that John Dean tried to start was accepting campaign donations from the general public over the internet. even as much as a dollar or two. He made a genuine effort to keep big business out of his campaign.

I am actually an Obama supporter. I think he is a charismatic man of vision who will be able to bring America into the 21st century.

The only problem I have with Hillary, is that she is more of an old school politician. I think Obama will bring new ideas and new energy that is greatly needed to the White House. I find myself defending her because I think that most of the allegations against her are unfounded or over trumped.

[BleedingOrchid]

I'm voting for Hillary & I'm a woman. Want to know WHY I'm voting for her?

Cuz she's pretty.

[Sophie]

The alternative isn't better.  Sorry to further offend MikeyV (glad to know the specifics, thanks), but McCain's stance on war has many people rethinking their support for his campaign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZCISY40qns

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-zoPgv_ ... re=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gwqEneB ... re=related