Reflections on leaving Christianity and how religion tarnished me for life

[TheWalkingContradiction]

A very interesting and insightful read TWC, thank you for sharing.

And thank you and Recusant for the advice in the other thread.  I did not want to cause trouble with this post, and I am you made board spirit clear to me.  I am also glad the post was well received.

[TheWalkingContradiction]

Seriously, you do need to avoid the underage ones, it won't be a good look.
It seems maybe you are focusing too much on the sex part. Just enjoy being in someone's company. If you are feeling uncomfortable getting intimate then don't. If it feels natural and the stars are aligned, well...
But until then, there is no need to put pressure on yourself.

Absolutely.  I mentioned the underage ones to show that Christians were wrong in their assessment of me.  Actually, at this stage in my life anyone below 35 is probably too young for me as a partner--although non-sexual friendship knows no bounds.

Yes, I do concentrate on sex too much, but I am a very, very sexual person even though I don't have sex.  I had not even hit puberty when I had major crushes on men.  Of course, I did not know what sex was then and could not even imagine it, so all I thought about was cuddling with the guy when both of us were shirtless.  I also thought about sleeping in the guy's arms, but it was literal sleeping (as in snoring).  

Most gay guys don't get this next story; in fact, only my closest friend does.  About 15 years ago I was sitting on a Manhattan bus during heavy rain.  One of the best looking men I have ever seen got on the bus and stood in front of where I was sitting.  Water dropped from his hair and fell onto my bare forearm.  I almost passed out...  That was the best sex ever.  

Yes, I am far too sexual.  At least I no longer have to beat myself up over it in the name of Jesus.

Sounds tough, you want to do something of value and yet someone is making it extremely difficult for you, based on their own shortcomings. Difficult situation indeed.

Thank you for actually hearing what I was saying.  Most people say "Just quit and tell her off.  They'll find someone else to take care of those kids."  (Imagine if they find someone else like her!)

Ironically, in her mind I have told her off many times.  Once I tried to explain that I respected her idea of true Christians but would prefer she not use it in speaking to me since we did not view the term the same way.  When she questioned me, I explained that every group calls itself true Chistians and all other groups Pharisees.  She immediately started screaming something to the tune of how dare I call her a Pharisee.  --SIGH!--

But please remember, your worth is not how others define you, it is how you define yourself.

I know that intellectually, but I have a problem believing it on an emotional level.  This is part of what I struggle with (and I am sure OCD, already exacerbated by Christianity, exacerbates it further.)

I think you would hate Heaven, especially if it's full of Christians. Hell is the place for you, I'm going there, its gonna be a blast.

I sure would hate Heaven!

One of my favorite quotes: "Go to Heaven for the climate, Hell for the company."  -- Mark Twain

[TheWalkingContradiction]

As I have expressed, I don't want to paint myself as a saint.  I have a very selfish and petty side too.

I have gotten much better with self-esteem over the years, but I do still have a long way to go. 

From my (very limited) experience, it is those who question their goodness of character that winds up being the more respectable person. It's a willingness to look at your flaws and working hard at overcoming it that makes one great. Those who think they are perfect never are, because they never give themselves the chance to develop as a human being. And from your post it is quite obvious that you have a level of restraint and willpower that most don't.

Thank you!  It sounds as if your experience is not as limited as you think!   

[TheWalkingContradiction]

Thank you for sharing.

...and thank you!

[Stevil]

Yes, I am far too sexual.

Just one correction here.
You have a sexual aspect to your being, just as most everyone else does as well.

I think Christianity focuses too much on sex, they make it out to be some sacred activity fraught with the sins of (lust, desire, selfishness...) unless of course you are in the missionary position and trying to make a Christian baby (lots of Christian babies).

Accept your sexuality, it does not define you, and it is not something to fight against. Sex is a natural part of life, and if you think about it, we spend very little time in our lives actually having sex.

[Crow]

What you describe sounds very similar to the domestic abuse "power and control theory", even though it's not exactly the same thing as what you described there certainly are parallels. Do any of these techniques sound similar to what you experienced: coercion and threats, intimidation, emotional abuse, isolation, minimizing, denying and blaming, using children, economic abuse, and male privilege? If so look at the theory, if not look at it anyway as it may help with understanding the actions behind those that caused the psychological abuse in the name of Christianity and hopefully remove some of the damage that was done.

I have come to the conclusion that the Abrahamic religions use these techniques of power and control masterfully, they're part of religious law, recited by preachers/priest/imams,etc and reenacted by elders and peers generation after generation. I first stumbled across the thought about a month ago when watching a program about domestic violence and the women and men that were the victims basically mirrored word for word the plethora of introductions that have come from a religious background on this forum. The power and control theory of physiological domestic abuse stood out most of all to me when I started researching the subject, and also that the patriarchal system has a huge influence over the actions and that the treatment may be in the same field. I have only really just started looking into it myself out of interest and might be totally wrong, I may be seeing the evidence because I am looking for it yet missing other issues that may make the concept irrelevant. As religious abuse seems to be accepted in all society's I think its about time that stopped and show people what is really happening and provide help for those such as yourself.

[xSilverPhinx]

If I'm not mistaken there are a few people who specialise in religious/cult emotional and psychological abuse therapy. I don't really know just how different it is from behavioral therapy, or if it is BT with more focus on religious or cult indoctrination issues.

[Crow]

If I'm not mistaken there are a few people who specialise in religious/cult emotional and psychological abuse therapy. I don't really know just how different it is from behavioral therapy, or if it is BT with more focus on religious or cult indoctrination issues.

Yeah there is but usually deals with the extremes. I'm talking about the very nature of the religion, even the Christian's who are the "I want to show that we aren't all like the fundamentalists" is an example of the power and control theory in action, those actions come in a form of the minimizing, denying and blaming techniques.

[Recusant]

I'm glad that you feel comfortable enough here to post such a personal document, T.W.Contradiction. Thank you for sharing your story. No doubt the Christian woman is trying to do good (by her lights), and unfortunately her "good" may not be all that good. She gets to feel self-righteous because she's ostensibly doing good, and while working with her sounds like an unpleasant experience, it's great that you're there for those kids.

[En_Route]

Sex is a natural part of life, and if you think about it, we spend very little time in our lives actually having sex.

But quite a lot of time thinking about having it.

[En_Route]

Yes, I am far too sexual.

Just one correction here.
You have a sexual aspect to your being, just as most everyone else does as well.

I think Christianity focuses too much on sex, they make it out to be some sacred activity fraught with the sins of (lust, desire, selfishness...) unless of course you are in the missionary position and trying to make a Christian baby (lots of Christian babies).

Accept your sexuality, it does not define you, and it is not something to fight against. Sex is a natural part of life, and if you think about it, we spend very little time in our lives actually having sex.

If you have a strong sex drive that's  just how you are built. If it doesn't actually disrupt your everyday life then why worry about it?  There is huge variation in human sexuality and the idea of  a right and/or normal intensity of appetite or orientation is just a self- persecuting myth.

[TheWalkingContradiction]

If I'm not mistaken there are a few people who specialise in religious/cult emotional and psychological abuse therapy. I don't really know just how different it is from behavioral therapy, or if it is BT with more focus on religious or cult indoctrination issues.

You are correct, and it is very, very important for people who have been through abusive religion.  Most specialists concentrate on cults specificially--at least on what mainstream society considers cults: the Moonies, the Hari Krishnas, Scientology, and my old cult, The Worldwide Church of God, to name only a few--although now WWCG is no longer considered a cult. --SIGH--.  The problem is that many of those therapists are theists.  Granted, a good number belong to very, very liberal denominations and will not harm or try to convert the patient, but still... 

This is why I insisted on not working with a Christian when I got help for my OCD and had already had a disasterous encounter with a homophobic therapist.  I got help in the Jewish Board of Family and Children Services Cult Clinic at the same time that I got help for OCD.  And they charged me sliding scale fees since I was only a student with little money at the time.   

I understand that Catholic Charities can also be helpful, and that one does not have to be Catholic or even a believer to go there.  Many of the therapists are not Catholic, and they are supposedly not allowed to prosthelytize.  I have heard good things about them.  Maybe it is a good place.  I don't know.

Whatever the case, there is a specific protocol in helping someone leave a cult (and, I assume, any abusive religion) that is neither BT nor psychoanalysis but something unique to the field.  One of the pioneers was Steven Hassan, himself a former Moonie and currently a certified counselor and mind control expert.

[TheWalkingContradiction]

If I'm not mistaken there are a few people who specialise in religious/cult emotional and psychological abuse therapy. I don't really know just how different it is from behavioral therapy, or if it is BT with more focus on religious or cult indoctrination issues.

Yeah there is but usually deals with the extremes. I'm talking about the very nature of the religion, even the Christian's who are the "I want to show that we aren't all like the fundamentalists" is an example of the power and control theory in action, those actions come in a form of the minimizing, denying and blaming techniques.

I hear you and agree completely.  

Unfortunately, we freethinkers are such a small group (relatively speaking) and have so little real political clout that we need the liberal churches, synagogues and mosques on or side and cannot alienate them.  We may not agree with them, but many of their members have suffered as much as we have in abusive extremist groups.  Also, when a pastor speaks up against religious abuse, he or she will, unfortunately, be taken more seriously than us by mainstream society.  We need that clout so that help can be available to all.  At least many of the liberal religious types are indeed on our side, more or less.

A sad world.

[TheWalkingContradiction]

Do any of these techniques sound similar to what you experienced: coercion and threats, intimidation, emotional abuse, isolation, minimizing, denying and blaming, using children, economic abuse, and male privilege?

Absolutely!

[TheWalkingContradiction]

I'm glad that you feel comfortable enough here to post such a personal document, T.W.Contradiction. Thank you for sharing your story. No doubt the Christian woman is trying to do good (by her lights), and unfortunately her "good" may not be all that good. She gets to feel self-righteous because she's ostensibly doing good, and while working with her sounds like an unpleasant experience, it's great that you're there for those kids.

I surprised myself by holding back very little.  (There are some things only one person, my closest friend, knows.)

Oh yes, that Christian woman specializes in self-righteousness and how she has suffered in the name of Jesus.

Thank you for the kind words!