How do people STILL not accept evolution?

[McQ]

This thread needs to get back on track. Please discuss whatever the hell it is this has turned into somewhere else. Thanks.

[Squid]

IMO, molecular biology (looking at DNA) and the fossils uncovered within the past 50 years basically confirm evolution as true.  Yet many people, including my own parents!, don't believe in evolution.  It's over 50% here in the USA.  How do these people explain these

Really even though the word "evidence" and what view science supports gets tossed around in such discussions, it really has very little to do with the science or evidence.  The evidence is there plainly to see.  In many instances you are dealing with factors of a psychological nature that contribute to the steadfastness of biblically centered creationist beliefs.  First you have the religion itself which is most often introduced at a young age and engrained in that young brain.  People are told this is the truth and don't ever let anyone tell you differently.  Then to have someone challenge those beliefs especially ones which were held for so long becomes aversive and the person will become defensive.  You will see what psychologists term psychological reactance at work. Along with other  things such as cognitive biases (i.e., ingroup-outgroup bias) and cognitive dissonance.

[xSilverPhinx]

IMO, molecular biology (looking at DNA) and the fossils uncovered within the past 50 years basically confirm evolution as true.  Yet many people, including my own parents!, don't believe in evolution.  It's over 50% here in the USA.  How do these people explain these

Really even though the word "evidence" and what view science supports gets tossed around in such discussions, it really has very little to do with the science or evidence.  The evidence is there plainly to see.  In many instances you are dealing with factors of a psychological nature that contribute to the steadfastness of biblically centered creationist beliefs.  First you have the religion itself which is most often introduced at a young age and engrained in that young brain.  People are told this is the truth and don't ever let anyone tell you differently.  Then to have someone challenge those beliefs especially ones which were held for so long becomes aversive and the person will become defensive.  You will see what psychologists term psychological reactance at work. Along with other  things such as cognitive biases (i.e., ingroup-outgroup bias) and cognitive dissonance.

Religion is way more a bundle of defense mechanisms than actual substance.

They also view the evidence fundamentally different, they already know everything because it's in their holy book and so the world has to fit into their religion or else the world is wrong.

[Amicale]

To be fair, some faith groups have no actual problem with evolution, while others have come around on the subject in the last few years. Take the Catholic Church, for example:

(October 5th, 2009)


A recently published statement on current scientific knowledge on cosmic evolution and biological evolution from the Pontifical Academy of Sciences concludes: "The extraordinary progress in our understanding of evolution and the place of man in nature should be shared with everyone. ... Furthermore, scientists have a clear responsibility to contribute to the quality of education, especially as regards the subject of evolution." The statement appears in the proceedings of "Scientific Insights into the Evolution of the Universe and of Life," a plenary session of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences held from October 31 to November 4, 2008.

Nobel laureate Christian de Duve summarized the plenary session: "The participants unanimously accepted as indisputable the affirmation that the Universe, as well as life within it, are the products of long evolutionary histories," noting that there was also wide agreement among the participants on the common ancestry of life on earth. "Evolution," he added, "has acquired the status of established fact. In the words of His Holiness John Paul II, it is 'more than a hypothesis'.

Read the rest here: http://ncse.com/news/2009/10/latest-evolution-from-vatican-005083

Although there are many things you won't find me defending the Catholic church on, this stance (perhaps an attempt to make itself relevant?) is one instance where I'm happy to throw it a bone.

[Asherah]

This is an old topic, but had to respond since ALL of my friends and family (except my husband) are fundamentalist Christian. I've tried to ask them to look at the evidence and they usually say the following:

"When you know that the Bible is the Word of God, then it doesn't matter what anyone else says. If it goes against what the Bible teaches, then it's wrong."

"Science changes all the time. Why put your trust in something like that? God doesn't change and the Bible stays the same. He has given us all we need to know in the Bible. If we needed to know more, he would have put it in there."

Then, the MOST common is the response, "The fossil record is embarrassing to evolutionists. There is no evidence there. And, if there is no evidence in the fossil record, then it's not true."

Christians repeat these types of things to EACH OTHER. They are confirming each others beliefs. Since they don't go outside their circle to learn the real truth, they don't ever change. And, the people I know will not read books, or listen to people that will challenge their faith. In their minds, they have the truth. End of story.

When I was going through my deconversion, they would tell me to stop reading those darn books that were challenging my faith! Stop reading Dawkins!! He's not building up your faith! Read the Case for Christ or anything that will confirm what you already believe. That's the mind set that prevents them from seeing the truth. So sad.

[Sweetdeath]

That's a really sad story, Asherah. But at least you aren't wearing blinders and sticking your fingers in your ears, right?

[Amicale]

Thanks for sharing that, Asherah.

I know where you're coming from. I know too many ex-theists (and am one myself) who came out of religion only to find they didn't know all that much about science, or what they thought they had known had been coloured by faulty ideas/perceptions, so they've had to re-educate themselves "correctly" with regards to science, philosophy, critical thinking, etc. It's really sad when the main reason someone doesn't learn about those things is due to the fact they're afraid they'll lose their faith if they do learn.

I posted a Sci-Am article on human evolution on facebook once, and a very fundie Christian friend commented on it, and said -- I quote -- "Glad you're into that stuff, but I can't read that because I know the Bible doesn't talk about it, and in my life right now I'm going through hell and I just need to lean on Jesus".

Well, fair enough. If someone's going through their own personal hell and they need a security blanket of sorts in order to get through that hell more or less sane, far be it from me to be the one to yank it away. I couldn't even if I tried. People have to be ready to listen and talk, to learn, before they actually can do those things.

[Stevil]

To be fair, some faith groups have no actual problem with evolution, while others have come around on the subject in the last few years. Take the Catholic Church, for example:

(October 5th, 2009)


A recently published statement on current scientific knowledge on cosmic evolution and biological evolution from the Pontifical Academy of Sciences concludes: "The extraordinary progress in our understanding of evolution and the place of man in nature should be shared with everyone. ... Furthermore, scientists have a clear responsibility to contribute to the quality of education, especially as regards the subject of evolution." The statement appears in the proceedings of "Scientific Insights into the Evolution of the Universe and of Life," a plenary session of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences held from October 31 to November 4, 2008.

Nobel laureate Christian de Duve summarized the plenary session: "The participants unanimously accepted as indisputable the affirmation that the Universe, as well as life within it, are the products of long evolutionary histories," noting that there was also wide agreement among the participants on the common ancestry of life on earth. "Evolution," he added, "has acquired the status of established fact. In the words of His Holiness John Paul II, it is 'more than a hypothesis'.

Read the rest here: http://ncse.com/news/2009/10/latest-evolution-from-vatican-005083

Although there are many things you won't find me defending the Catholic church on, this stance (perhaps an attempt to make itself relevant?) is one instance where I'm happy to throw it a bone.

But then the craziness of Catholics accepting evolution is that they also think all of humanity came from the first two humans, Adam and Eve, and hence bear the stain of original sin.
I would think that evolution and a literal belief in the Adam and Eve story are incompatible.

[Amicale]

To be fair, some faith groups have no actual problem with evolution, while others have come around on the subject in the last few years. Take the Catholic Church, for example:

(October 5th, 2009)


A recently published statement on current scientific knowledge on cosmic evolution and biological evolution from the Pontifical Academy of Sciences concludes: "The extraordinary progress in our understanding of evolution and the place of man in nature should be shared with everyone. ... Furthermore, scientists have a clear responsibility to contribute to the quality of education, especially as regards the subject of evolution." The statement appears in the proceedings of "Scientific Insights into the Evolution of the Universe and of Life," a plenary session of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences held from October 31 to November 4, 2008.

Nobel laureate Christian de Duve summarized the plenary session: "The participants unanimously accepted as indisputable the affirmation that the Universe, as well as life within it, are the products of long evolutionary histories," noting that there was also wide agreement among the participants on the common ancestry of life on earth. "Evolution," he added, "has acquired the status of established fact. In the words of His Holiness John Paul II, it is 'more than a hypothesis'.

Read the rest here: http://ncse.com/news/2009/10/latest-evolution-from-vatican-005083

Although there are many things you won't find me defending the Catholic church on, this stance (perhaps an attempt to make itself relevant?) is one instance where I'm happy to throw it a bone.

But then the craziness of Catholics accepting evolution is that they also think all of humanity came from the first two humans, Adam and Eve, and hence bear the stain of original sin.
I would think that evolution and a literal belief in the Adam and Eve story are incompatible.

I don't know what the official Vatican position is, but the majority of Catholics I've ever spoken to don't believe Adam and Eve were two distinct humans, but rather the first men and women generally. I have no clue how they reconcile that with original sin. It requires mental gymnastics of a high degree.

[ThinkAnarchy]

But then the craziness of Catholics accepting evolution is that they also think all of humanity came from the first two humans, Adam and Eve, and hence bear the stain of original sin.
I would think that evolution and a literal belief in the Adam and Eve story are incompatible.

If I knew nothing about Christianity, based purely on what is quoted above, I would imagine original sin as being incest. Just a thought.

[Sweetdeath]

But then the craziness of Catholics accepting evolution is that they also think all of humanity came from the first two humans, Adam and Eve, and hence bear the stain of original sin.
I would think that evolution and a literal belief in the Adam and Eve story are incompatible.

If I knew nothing about Christianity, based purely on what is quoted above, I would imagine original sin as being incest. Just a thought.

That's what I thought as a kid anyway: "this makes no sense. Either we are all the same race or we are all siblings."

[Jimmy]

I think that people do not accept evolution, at least in the U.S. because the schools, in general, do a terrible job at educating students about it!! I had, maybe a couple of weeks of genetics and a day or two of evolution in high school biology. In AP Biology, we covered it more in depth, but it was clearly only for those going into biology or pre-med in college.

Basically, our schools have anywhere from a minimalist approach to evolution to all out resistance, as is still being seen in Tennesee. The sad thing is, politics is messing with our kids' ability to learn the most fundamentals of the living sciences.

[xSilverPhinx]

I think that people do not accept evolution, at least in the U.S. because the schools, in general, do a terrible job at educating students about it!! I had, maybe a couple of weeks of genetics and a day or two of evolution in high school biology. In AP Biology, we covered it more in depth, but it was clearly only for those going into biology or pre-med in college.

Basically, our schools have anywhere from a minimalist approach to evolution to all out resistance, as is still being seen in Tennesee. The sad thing is, politics is messing with our kids' ability to learn the most fundamentals of the living sciences.

It's terrible what schools do actually. Without evolutionary theory, biology is just a collection of facts. ???

[Velma]

I think that people do not accept evolution, at least in the U.S. because the schools, in general, do a terrible job at educating students about it!! I had, maybe a couple of weeks of genetics and a day or two of evolution in high school biology. In AP Biology, we covered it more in depth, but it was clearly only for those going into biology or pre-med in college.

Basically, our schools have anywhere from a minimalist approach to evolution to all out resistance, as is still being seen in Tennesee. The sad thing is, politics is messing with our kids' ability to learn the most fundamentals of the living sciences.

Add that to the misinformation about evolution spread by so many churches and creationist websites and you have a toxic brew of lies about what evolution is and wrongly remembered bits of biology class.  Of course, it doesn't help that many schools no longer teach (or never taught) critical thinking skills or how to determine if a source of information is legitimate or bogus.

[Jimmy]

I think that people do not accept evolution, at least in the U.S. because the schools, in general, do a terrible job at educating students about it!! I had, maybe a couple of weeks of genetics and a day or two of evolution in high school biology. In AP Biology, we covered it more in depth, but it was clearly only for those going into biology or pre-med in college.

Basically, our schools have anywhere from a minimalist approach to evolution to all out resistance, as is still being seen in Tennesee. The sad thing is, politics is messing with our kids' ability to learn the most fundamentals of the living sciences.

It's terrible what schools do actually. Without evolutionary theory, biology is just a collection of facts. ???

...and most importantly, what they don't do. I'm from NY state and think I had a pretty descent education .I didn't know about the numerous hominid species that existed between our common ancestor with chimps and modern humans until college. Why would this be the case? Perhaps most people in this country have a rather skewed view of evolution because of this lack of information, I don't know.

I think that people do not accept evolution, at least in the U.S. because the schools, in general, do a terrible job at educating students about it!! I had, maybe a couple of weeks of genetics and a day or two of evolution in high school biology. In AP Biology, we covered it more in depth, but it was clearly only for those going into biology or pre-med in college.

Basically, our schools have anywhere from a minimalist approach to evolution to all out resistance, as is still being seen in Tennesee. The sad thing is, politics is messing with our kids' ability to learn the most fundamentals of the living sciences.

Add that to the misinformation about evolution spread by so many churches and creationist websites and you have a toxic brew of lies about what evolution is and wrongly remembered bits of biology class.  Of course, it doesn't help that many schools no longer teach (or never taught) critical thinking skills or how to determine if a source of information is legitimate or bogus.

Velma, I agree.
Now if we truely valued critical thinking skills as a culture, it would seem that giving more facts about human evolution would be great because it would teach people to think about the world around them in such a way that it they can be critical about what our parents or churches taught us, or as Stephen Colbert succintly wrote I am American,"Arbitrary rules teach kids discipline: If every rule made sense, they wouldn't be learning respect for authority, they'd be learning logic."