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PING: Need a seasoned Theist/Christian to answer some lingering questions i have

Started by Liar For Jesus, January 18, 2012, 04:02:30 PM

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Liar For Jesus

I hope this room is appropriate for my post and if not, I apologize.

As my Addy indicates,  Im somewhat of a struggling Atheist  in my pursuit of seeking truth and am no longer concretely committed to atheism or any other religious worldview for that matter...but im in a search-mode for the truth  as I go along my journey.   I would like to posit a few questions regarding Theism  for a better understanding and to see how you as a Theist respond to some scrutiny which I shall put forth.  As required by this Forum, I will be looking for substantiation to any points you make .   Thank you for your consideration to the following :

1.  What is THE top (singular) compelling scientific empirical evidence for the biblical Creator having created our Universe ?

2.  If this biblical Creator exists,  how can One be certain that the efforts put forth by an individual via prayer (primarily) ,  are getting thru and what confirmation is there ?

3.  Speaking honestly, what is the biggest problem/difficulty you personally have (have had)  regarding any aspect of the Christian Faith ?

Thank you.

McQ

You should also try posting this on a serious Christian forum, or several. Try a catholic forum, along with a Methodist, baptist, or any other decent ones you can find. Some catholic universities have forums that would welcome these inquiries.

Then compare those answers with what you get here.

Elvis didn't do no drugs!
--Penn Jillette

Liar For Jesus

Quote from: McQ on January 18, 2012, 04:05:49 PM
You should also try posting this on a serious Christian forum, or several. Try a catholic forum, along with a Methodist, baptist, or any other decent ones you can find. Some catholic universities have forums that would welcome these inquiries.

Then compare those answers with what you get here.



Good point.  Thanks.   For the time being,  Id like to see if there are any Theists in this Forum who can give cogent answers with adequate support.

AnimatedDirt

Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
1.  What is THE top (singular) compelling scientific empirical evidence for the biblical Creator having created our Universe ?
That there was a beginning.  I'm not certain I need to provide empirical evidence for this.

Quote from: Struggling Atheist2.  If this biblical Creator exists,  how can One be certain that the efforts put forth by an individual via prayer (primarily) ,  are getting thru and what confirmation is there ?
There is no manner in which to prove this.  It is only through personal experience.

Quote from: Struggling Atheist3.  Speaking honestly, what is the biggest problem/difficulty you personally have (have had)  regarding any aspect of the Christian Faith ?
I "hate" that the Christian must be looked down upon...that there is enough evidence TO believe and yet there's plenty or more evidence to disbelieve.  I understand that there is a two-fold reason.  That it is by faith we believe and so continually seek and that this separates those who want something more vs those who are content with this life and all it holds as reward.

Asmodean

Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
1.  What is THE top (singular) compelling scientific empirical evidence for the biblical Creator having created our Universe ?
Not a Christian perspective, but I'll answer. Bored, you see...

Asmo's Razor: Do not attribute to the supernatural any part of that, which can be found in nature.

There is no scientific evidence for intelligence behind the creation of the Universe. The fact that it was created in itself does not point to a creator being any more than it does to a creator process.

Quote
2.  If this biblical Creator exists,  how can One be certain that the efforts put forth by an individual via prayer (primarily) ,  are getting thru and what confirmation is there ?
Placebo effect is real... The rest is hopes and wishes and smoke and mirrors.

You can not be certain that the biblical creator listens until you have demonstrated at least two things conclusively: one, that such a creator exists and two, that he/she/it gives enough of a fuck to stay in earshot and actually listen.

Quote
3.  Speaking honestly, what is the biggest problem/difficulty you personally have (have had)  regarding any aspect of the Christian Faith ?
That it has done nothing to broaden our understanding of the universe while pretending to provide its followers with the answers to the "big questions".
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Genericguy

Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
Im somewhat of a struggling Atheist  in my pursuit of seeking truth and am no longer concretely committed to atheism or any other religious worldview for that matter...

Why ask questions specific to Christianity when in pursuit of truth? Are you finding more "truth" in Christianity opossed to other religions? Are you going to continue after this thread is over with questions for muslims, buddhists, hindus, ect.? If you are coming from an atheistic point of view then they all are equally untrue. I understand that your reason might be because the majority of theists on this forum are Christian, but does that mean its more true than the other religions and deserves more attention?

Liar For Jesus

Quote from: Asmodean on January 18, 2012, 05:36:22 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
1.  What is THE top (singular) compelling scientific empirical evidence for the biblical Creator having created our Universe ?
Not a Christian perspective, but I'll answer. Bored, you see...

Asmo's Razor: Do not attribute to the supernatural any part of that, which can be found in nature.

There is no scientific evidence for intelligence behind the creation of the Universe. The fact that it was created in itself does not point to a creator being any more than it does to a creator process.

Quote
2.  If this biblical Creator exists,  how can One be certain that the efforts put forth by an individual via prayer (primarily) ,  are getting thru and what confirmation is there ?
Placebo effect is real... The rest is hopes and wishes and smoke and mirrors.

You can not be certain that the biblical creator listens until you have demonstrated at least two things conclusively: one, that such a creator exists and two, that he/she/it gives enough of a fuck to stay in earshot and actually listen.
.............

Ive heard all the atheist guff and slander before which is why i addressed the Post Heading to seasoned Theists looking for their insight.   

Liar For Jesus

Quote from: Genericguy on January 18, 2012, 06:58:48 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
Im somewhat of a struggling Atheist  in my pursuit of seeking truth and am no longer concretely committed to atheism or any other religious worldview for that matter...

Why ask questions specific to Christianity when in pursuit of truth? Are you finding more "truth" in Christianity opossed to other religions? Are you going to continue after this thread is over with questions for muslims, buddhists, hindus, ect.? If you are coming from an atheistic point of view then they all are equally untrue. I understand that your reason might be because the majority of theists on this forum are Christian, but does that mean its more true than the other religions and deserves more attention?

Because Christianity claims itself to be true . I dont know yet . Yes, i think I shall . How do you know they are all 'equally untrue' ... please provide objective evidence to back this up per the Forum Rules.  Right now , i wish to analyze Christianity  closer by presenting to Christians what i see as difficulties (which may or may not be in the final analysis .

Asmodean

Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.

Liar For Jesus

Quote from: Asmodean on January 18, 2012, 07:30:54 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 07:23:42 PM
Because Christianity claims itself to be true
Yes... So does the vast majority of lies.


Assuming Christianity is in fact, a total lie.  Anyone who has an apriori-philosophical militant bias toward anothers Religion or ideology can SAY that...but I hope you will provide independent supportive evidence as to your previous statement that : All Religions are untrue (lies) .... other than you needing them to be. 

Heisenberg

"No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low"-John Lennon

xSilverPhinx

Quote from: Asmodean on January 18, 2012, 07:30:54 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 07:23:42 PM
Because Christianity claims itself to be true
Yes... So does the vast majority of lies.

Quoted for truth. ;D 99% of of religions claim to be the true and only one or only way.
I am what survives if it's slain - Zack Hemsey


Sweetdeath

Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 07:23:42 PM
Quote from: Genericguy on January 18, 2012, 06:58:48 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 04:02:30 PM
Im somewhat of a struggling Atheist  in my pursuit of seeking truth and am no longer concretely committed to atheism or any other religious worldview for that matter...

Why ask questions specific to Christianity when in pursuit of truth? Are you finding more "truth" in Christianity opossed to other religions? Are you going to continue after this thread is over with questions for muslims, buddhists, hindus, ect.? If you are coming from an atheistic point of view then they all are equally untrue. I understand that your reason might be because the majority of theists on this forum are Christian, but does that mean its more true than the other religions and deserves more attention?

Because Christianity claims itself to be true . I dont know yet . Yes, i think I shall . How do you know they are all 'equally untrue' ... please provide objective evidence to back this up per the Forum Rules.  Right now , i wish to analyze Christianity  closer by presenting to Christians what i see as difficulties (which may or may not be in the final analysis .

Uh... Every religion claims itself to be true. Are you biased because you were raised Christian? Muslim, Hinduism, Catholics, Jewish, Mormons all claim to be the 'true path. '
Law 35- "You got to go with what works." - Robin Lefler

Wiggum:"You have that much faith in me, Homer?"
Homer:"No! Faith is what you have in things that don't exist. Your awesomeness is real."

"I was thinking that perhaps this thing called God does not exist. Because He cannot save any one of us. No matter how we pray, He doesn't mend our wounds.

Liar For Jesus

Quote from: Heisenberg on January 18, 2012, 07:39:43 PM
Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 07:23:42 PM
Because Christianity claims itself to be true .
And you find this DIFFERENT than other religions?

I havent made that definitive conclusion yet.  Have you ?  If so, please show objectively why Christianity is false and/or why the rest of the World Religions are  as this will help in my research.  thanks.

Asmodean

Quote from: Struggling Atheist on January 18, 2012, 07:39:35 PM
Assuming Christianity is in fact, a total lie.
I have made no such assumption. The best of lies contain some truth - makes them more believable.

Religion, however, is hardly the best of lies.

QuoteAll Religions are untrue (lies) .... other than you needing them to be.

Not my statement, but ok. Religions present the existence gods, souls and other supernatural beings and life after death, to name a few more or less common denominators, as facts. Facts, they are not. So, presenting that which is not a fact as one (especially knowingly doing so) is, by definition, a lie.
Quote from: Ecurb Noselrub on July 25, 2013, 08:18:52 PM
In Asmo's grey lump,
wrath and dark clouds gather force.
Luxembourg trembles.