Your kids in a godless world

[The Magic Pudding]

This thread seems to be loosing focus.

The Pope's a bastard.

[Siz]

This thread seems to be loosing focus.

The Pope's a bastard.

Not much to debate there.

How about: Religion in films.

Let's talk Star Wars' Force. Or Muad Dib in Dune. A bit too religious for ya (in the context of kids)?

[Asmodean]

Let's talk Star Wars' Force. Or Muad Dib in Dune. A bit too religious for ya (in the context of kids)?

The Force in SW-universe can be demonstrated. The dark side vs the other side though... Don't like painting things black and white.

The concept of Muad Dib, I dislike, but don't really know why... Just seems shallow in the areas it isn't supposed to be shallow somehow

Fantasy is ok as long as the "magic" bits are properly justified within the fantasy universe they occur in.

[The Magic Pudding]

Dune... well the idea that the human brain is capable of holding the memories of all of your descendants is pushing credibility I suppose.  It seemed popular a few years back to assume most of the brain wasn't being used 'cause we didn't know what it was doing.

I like the treatment of religion in Dune, it is a tool to be used to control a population spread across the galaxy or galaxies.

But back to the context of kids, if a child isn't totally focused on their homework I advocate confronting them with a life threatening practical demonstration.  If they don't perform to the utmost of their ability give them a scar so they remember the cost of failure.

[Siz]

Dune... well the idea that the human brain is capable of holding the memories of all of your descendants is pushing credibility I suppose.  It seemed popular a few years back to assume most of the brain wasn't being used 'cause we didn't know what it was doing.

I like the treatment of religion in Dune, it is a tool to be used to control a population spread across the galaxy or galaxies.

But back to the context of kids, if a child isn't totally focused on their homework I advocate confronting them with a life threatening practical demonstration.  If they don't perform to the utmost of their ability give them a scar so they remember the cost of failure.

"If you'd have performed one whit below your ability, I'd have given a good scar to remind you". Love you Jean-Luc Picard!

I also love their treatment of religion (this is my all-time fave flick). That there is no compulsion to use their 'religious' abilities for good is an interesting slant, whereby godly powers are held by mortal, fallible men. In fact, their 'messiah' was the result of careful genetically guided breeding. But the final stage of the breeding programme was usurped by an unsanctioned coupling. The result was a slightly imperfect specimen, prone to rebellious, but noble machinations. So there is no god in their universe, just a messianic man-with-a-plan. Comparrisons with Jesus cannot be avoided and are used to the storytellers advantage. A powerful story well told.

For the kids though, (ages 4 and 7) I am keen for them to see it. Whilst there is not necessarily any grand lessons to be learned (apart from it's Atheist slant) it's just a great spectacle. It's a long film though and has some violence they needn't see.

Contrary to what Asmo says, I consider Star Wars to be commendable in it's grey areas of morality. Particularly in the treatment of Anakins passage through life and his temptation (and giving-in) to use his powers for selfish and malignant purposes. And even as the 'evil' Darth Vader he is torn by the love of his son, and regretful for his corruption.
The realistic portrayal of 'greyness of morality' is a particularly British trait in filmmaking (StarWars and Dune). You don't find much of it in Hollywood. I guess this reflects the precepts of the respective societies at large.

[Tank]

Dune... well the idea that the human brain is capable of holding the memories of all of your descendants is pushing credibility I suppose.  It seemed popular a few years back to assume most of the brain wasn't being used 'cause we didn't know what it was doing.

I like the treatment of religion in Dune, it is a tool to be used to control a population spread across the galaxy or galaxies.

But back to the context of kids, if a child isn't totally focused on their homework I advocate confronting them with a life threatening practical demonstration.  If they don't perform to the utmost of their ability give them a scar so they remember the cost of failure.

Decendents? Wouldn't that be ancestors?

[Siz]

Dune... well the idea that the human brain is capable of holding the memories of all of your descendants is pushing credibility I suppose.  It seemed popular a few years back to assume most of the brain wasn't being used 'cause we didn't know what it was doing.

I like the treatment of religion in Dune, it is a tool to be used to control a population spread across the galaxy or galaxies.

But back to the context of kids, if a child isn't totally focused on their homework I advocate confronting them with a life threatening practical demonstration.  If they don't perform to the utmost of their ability give them a scar so they remember the cost of failure.

Decendents? Wouldn't that be ancestors?

Maybe there's a non-linear time aspect in this film.

[The Magic Pudding]

Decendents? Wouldn't that be ancestors?

I think in this instance you are correct, but in sci fi it can get confusing.

The realistic portrayal of 'greyness of morality' is a particularly British trait in filmmaking (StarWars and Dune). You don't find much of it in Hollywood. I guess this reflects the precepts of the respective societies at large.

I'm not sure what part of these movies aren't American, they may film them elsewhere to save a buck.

At least three different versions of Dune have been released worldwide. In some cuts Lynch's name is replaced in the credits with the name Alan Smithee, a pseudonym formerly used by directors who wished not to be associated with a film for which they would normally be credited.

I know of two versions, one is longer and does not have the narration by Princess Irulan at the beginning, it was stretched so it could be shown on TV over two nights.  This version is inferior.  Not using Princess Irulan, what were they thinking?

[Siz]

Decendents? Wouldn't that be ancestors?

I think in this instance you are correct, but in sci fi it can get confusing.

The realistic portrayal of 'greyness of morality' is a particularly British trait in filmmaking (StarWars and Dune). You don't find much of it in Hollywood. I guess this reflects the precepts of the respective societies at large.

I'm not sure what part of these movies aren't American, they may film them elsewhere to save a buck.

At least three different versions of Dune have been released worldwide. In some cuts Lynch's name is replaced in the credits with the name Alan Smithee, a pseudonym formerly used by directors who wished not to be associated with a film for which they would normally be credited.

I know of two versions, one is longer and does not have the narration by Princess Irulan at the beginning, it was stretched so it could be shown on TV over two nights.  This version is inferior.  Not using Princess Irulan, what were they thinking?

Are you talking of the three part mini series made subsequently? This was utter pants (that's underwear for the US readers). Why they thought they could remake it better on a budget I don't know! It made me cross to have the 6 hours of my life it stole from me.

[The Magic Pudding]

Are you talking of the three part mini series made subsequently? This was utter pants (that's underwear for the US readers). Why they thought they could remake it better on a budget I don't know! It made me cross to have the 6 hours of my life it stole from me.

No there are different cuts of the David Lynch film, the extended one is annoying.
I didn't mind the European low budget version, it did cover more than the first book.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I'm not familiar with Dune, but the "force" in Star Wars doesn't really bother me, primarily because there is actual evidence in that world that the force exists!

I have mentioned in another thread that all of the "God" talk in Battlestar Galactica kind of bothered me. Not in a "I'd never let my kid watch this" kind of way, but after the 11 millionth time that 6 says "God has a plan for you, God has a plan for all of us!" it kind of gets old. 

[Asmodean]

Contrary to what Asmo says, I consider Star Wars to be commendable in it's grey areas of morality.

Thing is, Jedi are automatically considered the good guys. If they turn to the "dark side" (what's so dark about it..?), they are evil. Turn back, and I suppose they become good with history.

Why are there no (openly) power-hungry assholes following the jedi way? Just for the power using the force gives you? Why are there no all-decent-and-nice-acting Sith? Why is there no inbetween-side between the Jedi and Sith ways, for like ordinary folks..?

[Davin]

Contrary to what Asmo says, I consider Star Wars to be commendable in it's grey areas of morality.

Thing is, Jedi are automatically considered the good guys. If they turn to the "dark side" (what's so dark about it..?), they are evil. Turn back, and I suppose they become good with history.

They make things easy by choosing proper attire. Only a bilge rate would shoot lightning from their hands when not wearing all black.

Why are there no (openly) power-hungry assholes following the jedi way? Just for the power using the force gives you? Why are there no all-decent-and-nice-acting Sith? Why is there no inbetween-side between the Jedi and Sith ways, for like ordinary folks..?

The force be binary, the inbetween is the transition from good to bad (bad to good is when one is near death and smartly so).

[Asmodean]

They make things easy by choosing proper attire. Only a bilge rate would shoot lightning from their hands when not wearing all black.

Well, I'd do the lightning thing while wearing all yellow. 

On that note, a minigun is far more potent a weapon than lightning. Wonder why they didn't use those against the plasma sword (or whatever that lightsaber-foolishness is supposed to pretend to be) users... 

[kbush]

i don't think it's "sad" that your kids are growing up religious. i think that it might actually work out better that way, because then they can decide for themselves whether or not they believe in a higher deity and all that.
i think that you're doing well for a situation like yours, i don't know how i would personally handle it.
giving them both opinions i think will help them in the long run to decide for themselves what to believe in.
good luck!