Re: Worldview Survey

[Will]

I'm having trouble telling exactly what you meant here but when I said the responses remained consistent I meant the answers each individual person gave did not contradict each other, not that they necessarily corresponded to other peoples' responses. I'm sorry I should have been more clear there. I intend to be respectful and courteous to everyone.

I was saying that even though you're a Christian, you're welcome here. The only thing we like to judge people on is their treatment of others. Oddly enough, that speaks to your third question.

I think the purpose of life is for us to grow to be more like God in holiness and righteousness and to do His work, leading others to salvation through Jesus Christ.

You want to be holy? Like (presumably) the Judeo-Christian God? You want to be exalted and worshiped? I don't think I'm reading this correctly.

[mbell31]

I'm having trouble telling exactly what you meant here but when I said the responses remained consistent I meant the answers each individual person gave did not contradict each other, not that they necessarily corresponded to other peoples' responses. I'm sorry I should have been more clear there. I intend to be respectful and courteous to everyone.

I was saying that even though you're a Christian, you're welcome here. The only thing we like to judge people on is their treatment of others. Oddly enough, that speaks to your third question.

I appreciate that and agree, thank you.

I think the purpose of life is for us to grow to be more like God in holiness and righteousness and to do His work, leading others to salvation through Jesus Christ.

You want to be holy? Like (presumably) the Judeo-Christian God? You want to be exalted and worshiped? I don't think I'm reading this correctly.

When I say holy I simply mean to be less sinful and more like the perfect God who is righteous in character. The goal of the Christian life is to depart from the ways of the sinful world and the practices we naturally want to engage in. I want to be holy like God because he wants me to be transformed into a more holy person. I also want to reflect His image and effectively spread His message. I do not want to be exalted and worshiped. The further I progress as a Christian the more I realize how unholy I am and I will never reach any level of holiness worthy of exultation or worship. I am just a fallen human. Any holiness I ever have is just a gift from God and His image being displayed in me.

[PipeBox]

Hi.  I hope you get some good answers here.  Before I type out there answers, I would like it to be known that there is a sandwich in close proximity to me.  I'm putting off eating it until I'm done typing this up.  But nonetheless, it is messing with my head, so the typos aren't entirely my fault.  OK, they are, but I'd rather type hungry than full.  Anyway...

1. Do you think there is any universal truth, things that are true regardless of a person's opinion? Why or why not?

Yes, without a doubt.  Mathematics, logic, and any statement about the state of the universe entails absolute truth.  Even the stuff we don't quite understand yet.  A person being happy, for example, entails a particular brain state.  They may lie to us, but their brain still has definite states.  Just as someone may lie to us about the size of something, or its mass, there are nonetheless absolute truths to each.  So all physical properties as well as the logic and math that describe them are truth statements.  What isn't an absolute truth?  Morality.  It cannot be said that the universe, or even other people, possess the same morality as yourself.  There may be a general consensus, and there may be truth statements made about the morality of the individual, but not the morality of the universe as objective to ours, as it does not possess any discernible morality.  Likewise, language itself, not the concepts it represents, but the actual sounds and sentence structure, does not represent absolute truth.  We didn't learn language from the universe, as it were, we've just developed it to describe reality.  Again, truth statements may be made such as "This person uses these words..." or "The following words possess these associated meaning by agreement of the majority...".  Units of measurement are also not defined by existence, but our need to describe it.  The length of an inch was decided arbitrarily.  We can make a truth statement about the consensus of what an inch is, but we cannot say it is the perfect descriptor of length.  Emotions, while representing a definite state in us, are not shared by the universe, so the statement "the universe loves us" would not be truthful.

2. Do you think that racism is wrong, in other words, hating people simply based on their ethnicity? Why or why not?

I feel that it is wrong, it violates my sense of empathy.  It is not wrong in any objective sense, beyond arguably being detrimental to us as a species.  But that falls into the realm of ethics, which directs us to "What is best for us?" rather than "What is objectively right?"

3. Do you think it is wrong to judge another person's beliefs or actions? Why or why not?

No, as I am going to do it anyway.  I'm just careful to also judge my reaction to those beliefs and actions.  Plain revulsion is not enough of a reason for me to retain that judgement, so I do some introspection and decide whether it is reasonable for me to react that way.  This decision of whether or not it is reasonable is arbitrary, but I will be satisfied with it.  I should note, it is arbitrary because the starting point is arbitrary (eg why do I consider it bad for humanity to go extinct?  Because I don't want the species to die out, and that's just how I am).  The reasoning itself, however is not.  In other words, I do not reason through contradictions, much the same way you do not.  I don't want to judge people, and people are there to be judged, so I shouldn't judge people sometimes does not logically follow.  I don't want to judge people because it could be disadvantageous for me to discard the opportunities they offer without further thought, however, does follow.  The starting point is arbitrary, but based on me not wanting to lose those opportunities, my decision not to judge people without reason is reasonable.

4. Do you think morality in America is getting better or getting worse? Why?

Compared to mine?  I think it is getting better.  There's less people trying to take away the moral freedom of others.  After all, it's pretty hard to defend that sex, for example, should be outlawed when it takes place between two consenting adults.  That they might regret their actions later is not an opportunity for others to claim the moral high ground.  In fact, asking in what way it is immoral, without invoking the whims of a deity, will show you that it has no basis for being claimed to be immoral.  So, as more people realize that it is "immoral" to force one's morality on others, morality has improved.  This is in my judgement, as I do not like seeing people tell others what they can and cannot do with their bodies.  Drugs, sex, alcohol, masturbation, and so on only harm the person partaking, if/when they even do harm.  If the person engaged with these things of their own will, then I do not believe it is reasonable to tell them they are immoral.  If, however, a person tries to force either their morality or their sexuality or forces a person to drink something under violence or threat of violence, or through coercion, that I personally consider immoral.

5. What do you think is the purpose of life?

This shamelessly suggests life has an objective purpose.  I don't know about you, but I'm pretty happy just to be around.  The purpose bit, I can make my own.  It definitely wasn't written in the manual.  I didn't come with a manual.  If there is a purpose to this life beyond just living it, no one has made us aware of it yet.  If you want to claim they have, you'll have to objectively verify that purpose.  Until that's done, I'm having a blast just being alive.  

6. What do you think happens when a person dies? Why?

Lights out.  Machinery off.  Consciousness terminated.  I think this because it is thoroughly evidenced.  If you are punched in the face and black out, you do not maintain any kind of spiritual or astral consciousness.  There isn't a part of you that is detached from you brain.  And if that brain is damaged, there is no aspect of you that is safe.  Personality, memory, cognitive ability, motor skill, ability to experience various emotions, and so on can all be traced back to regions of the brain, right down to awareness.  There is no method by which the chemical and energy composition of our brain might be copied, immediately on our death, to another state (and even if there was, it would only be a copy, not your current consciousness).  There is no method by which it is conveyed to new life, so that your mind may be reborn.  No signal is seen to be communicating with the brain at a distance.  So if I'm to believe in an afterlife of any kind, there had better be evidence.  The loss of consciousness, though, is pretty much guaranteed by the lack of brain function.   Without an unobserved intervening force, everything we know from experience and research indicates that if the brain isn't conscious, neither are "you".  

I'd like to add on to this my personal view of death.  I regard it as life's last, perhaps only great mercy.  Eternity would be the worst torture possible to any sentient being.  The first million year might be fun, but what about the million (the entire lifetime again) after that?  And the 50 million after that?  And the 10 times that?  And the double of that?  And the billion after that?  And the thousand billion after that?  And that's only just over your first trillion years.  This is never going to end, not after a trillion times, and then that again.  No thanks, even if I was chronologically immortal, I know that at some point I would kill myself.  At some point, the mind needs to stop.

7. What is your view of God? What is He like (if you think he exists)?

I do not think the God of the Bible exists.  He would be doing a poor job of being a deity, but then I guess you've got to explain the earthquakes and asteroids and sunburn and AIDS, so he can't exactly be the type of god I would be given the power.  See, because inside one day, I would have made the world aware of my existence, told them that they owed me nothing, because indeed they have nothing I would need (be it worship, sacrifices, eternal allegiance, whatever), fused the tectonic plates to end all earthquakes, shown man technologies they hadn't dreamed of, give them a more proper understanding of the universe, stopped by all the extremists to tell them I didn't want them to fight and that I would be providing everyone defensive technology that wouldn't permit them to kill or be killed ever again (except themselves and anyone that consented), provide that defensive technology, and then hang out in the local supergroup of galaxies keeping the Great Attractor at bay and nudging any back holes and gamma ray bursts away from Earth and preventing vacuum collapse to a lower energy state (which would end us rather quickly, if we're not in the lowest state of vacuum already).  And that would be my first day.  I'm up for suggestions as to what I'd set right on my second day.

So, while your God is compatible with reality as we see it, it does precious little to justify why it is this way.  All the justifications reek of myth in the same way the justifications for all other religions reek.  I find your God's character contemptible, but then, if he really wants to burn me, I can't refuse, either.  I don't like your deity any more than I like anyone else's.  Which is to say, not a whole lot.  The only upswing is the hopefulness that people will get something better, because they know man isn't going to bring about a utopia in their life time.  They know their lives will be cruel and short.  And that is the only benefit of the gods.  They still give people hope, unjustified though it likely is.  How we want things to be are not indicators of how they are, but I forgive people for wishing it was so.

Sandwich.

[rlrose328]

1. Do you think there is any universal truth, things that are true regardless of a person's opinion? Why or why not?

No.  There are so many belief systems and thought processes out there, there can be no universal truth.  Whose would you choose?  There can be community truths, but not a universal truth.

2. Do you think that racism is wrong, in other words, hating people simply based on their ethnicity? Why or why not?

Of course racism is wrong... it doesn't take religion or god to know that treating someone else as a substandard human who has fewer rights is wrong, regardless the reason.  We are all equal and in a perfect world, we wouldn't need laws to enforce and understand that.  But this isn't a perfect world and there are plenty of people in this world who use many ideas, including religion, to reduce another race to animal status.

3. Do you think it is wrong to judge another person's beliefs or actions? Why or why not?

I'd have to say yes AND no to that one.  It's not as easy as just yes OR no.  If the person with a belief different than mine is just living their life, getting along with everyone, not ostracizing or criticizing everyone they meet based on their beliefs, then yes, it's wrong.  In that scenario, there's nothing to judge.  HOWEVER, if the person with a different belief is lobbying the government to pass laws based on their religious text (gay marriage is a prime example), then yes, it's perfect right to judge their beliefs and actions because it affects the society as a whole and forces everyone to abide by their beliefs rather than what is rational and just for the population at large.

4. Do you think morality in America is getting better or getting worse? Why?

"Morality" to me is conforming to a standard of right behavior.  In that sense, yes, it's getting worse.  It has nothing to do with a religious morality.  I believe the religious version of morality is part of why American morality is deteriorating.  The repressive notions of biblical morality have no relevance in contemporary society... they're just not realistic.  They rely on fear which really doesn't make people do the right thing... it makes them try to cover up the bad things they do.  

5. What do you think is the purpose of life?

To live, reproduce responsibly (if possible), do right by others, and leave the earth in a better form than when we got here.

6. What do you think happens when a person dies? Why?

Their heart stops beating, their brain ceases function, and then nothing.  The concept of a soul that lives forever is the stuff of mythology.  What makes us "us" is in our brain... our thoughts, our concepts, ourselves.  Once that is gone, there is nothing left.  And that's okay.  Why?  Because that's just the way it is.  There doesn't NEED to be more.  If one is so focused on what comes after this life, they cease to enjoy fully the gifts we have NOW... our family, our friends, the world, a good movie with tasty popcorn, and an ice-cold beer on a hot day.  When I die, I won't miss those things because the part of me that enjoys those things will cease to exist.

7. What is your view of God? What is He like (if you think he exists)?

First of all, I'm an atheist.  No, I can't prove 100% that god doesn't exist.  But I've done enough reading and searching on my own that I no longer wish to waste my time any longer trying to find something that I believe isn't there.

That said, my view of the Christian god (the only one I've had experience with) is that of a spoiled child who has to have his way, regardless of who he has to hurt to get it.  Like that old Twilight Zone episode with the kid who makes everyone do what he wants them to do and if they don't, he punishes them by making them vanish (Billy Mumy was the kid... LOVE that episode!).  He kills when he wants, he tells others to kill to prove their worth, he has such disregard for his own "creations" while also demanding their complete and total devotion or he'll make them suffer for eternity.  What type of benevolent and loving parent doesn that?  So even if I found out, for sure, that he IS real, I'd not worship such a monster.

[rlrose328]

For example, sex is promoted as a fun and pleasurable activity to be done at leisure. In fact, it is intended for a marriage relationship and has intense consequences on the participants.

I would expect that type of answer from a believer, but c'mon... where is it written, other than a religious text, that sex is intended for only a marriage relationship?  And I'm guessing the "intense consequences" are pregnancy?

I think the purpose of life is for us to grow to be more like God in holiness and righteousness and to do His work, leading others to salvation through Jesus Christ.

SO you are of the belief that everyone in the entire world should be Christian.  Do you accept that there are other belief systems in the world?

I think when a person dies they either join God in eternal peace and joy in heaven or conversely enter eternal torment and suffering in hell. A person enters heaven if they have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior or hell if they have not.

Why do you want to live with the god depicted in the old testament, a being who would gladly toss a good portion of your fellow man into a burning hell?  I know, it's my choice.  But I have compassion for people who make choices different than mine, esp. when they have bad consequences.  Too bad some Christians don't have that same compassion.

God is an eternal being who exists outside time and space. He created time, space and the universe and all that exists. God is personal, just, holy, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal, and loving among other attributes.

Which god are YOU talking about?  Just?  Nope.  Holy?  Maybe... all the "o" words... not really.  I'll give you "immortal" only because his fan club insists that he is.  But loving?  NO, not the god I read about in the bible.

So an apologetics class just teaches you how to justify your beliefs?  And this is taught in college why?

[Hitsumei]

1. Do you think there is any universal truth, things that are true regardless of a person's opinion? Why or why not?

Since many seem to be using objective, universal, and absolute truth as synonymous, I think I should clarify which I do and do not except. Universal, to mean "is true everywhere, and for everyone" then yes, I do think that somethings are universally true, for instance it would be universally true to say that a square-triangle does not exist. It exists for no one, and at no point in the universe.

For objective truth, as in true regardless of what anything thinks or feels, then also yes. I think that it is true that our species can't breath underwater, no matter who thinks otherwise.

Absolute truth, as in truth that cannot possibly be wrong, and is truth in all instances and circumstances regardless, then I will have to go with indeterminable. Though it could be the case that such truths exist in actuality, it can never be knowledge. The nature of human knowledge is that it is not absolute, so whether absolute truths exist or not, they are not something we have access to if they do.  

2. Do you think that racism is wrong, in other words, hating people simply based on their ethnicity? Why or why not?

Yes, I think that it is wrong because it is based on superstition, fear and ignorance, and can be extremely harmful.

3. Do you think it is wrong to judge another person's beliefs or actions? Why or why not?

No, it is required to judge others' actions in order for a civilization to be built and sustained, and any population to live together in a cooperative way.

4. Do you think morality in America is getting better or getting worse? Why?

Better, because it is moving closer and closer to my views, though my views seem to be moving closer and closer to the left as I age, so they will likely never catch up.  

5. What do you think is the purpose of life?

I don't think that the question is coherent, and "purpose" cannot be used in that context, I think asking the question commits a category error.

6. What do you think happens when a person dies? Why?

Metabolic and cognitive function ceases, and the body decomposes, and is recycled back into the biosphere, or meets several other possible, and mostly artificial ends, such as cremation, mummification and things of that nature. I don't think that I need to highlight why I think this, I do not believe it to be controversial.    

7. What is your view of God? What is He like (if you think he exists)?

I have none.

[Hitsumei]

I should point out that things like math, and logic are human creations, and rely on well defined terms, rules, and parameters. They are tautologies, which are true because of the way that the terms are defined, and the rules of the system they are being used in. Mathematical formulae being true very much do rely on what people think.  

One could argue that with using math, certain things can be demonstrated that are true objectively, but this is merely using math as a medium to arrive at these discoveries about the world that relies on far more than just math in order to accomplish, it is formalizing information, and uses extremely rigidly defined, and employed rules. It uses place holders for real things, and smooths over the surface of a rather rough playing field. Regardless of this, "2+2=4" because of what all of those symbols mean and represent, and it can neither be said that it is necessary that they represent what they do in base ten math, or that they must comply to the rules of that system, and cannot be used differently in another.

[AlP]

It seems everyone's taking this little questionnaire. It's interesting to read other's answers so I will bore you all with mine...

1. Do you think there is any universal truth, things that are true regardless of a person's opinion? Why or why not?

The word truth is overloaded in the English language. This is perhaps because on one hand it means "fidelity" or "faithfulness" and on the other "agreement with reality". Because English speakers use the same word for both concepts, I think they sometimes muddle the concepts. There are other meanings too. To a post-modernist truth can mean virtually anything as far as I can tell (I live with one).

You qualified "truth" with "ultimate". I don't know what that means. I searched wikipedia and came up dry. Given that I don't know what you mean by universal truth I have to say that I don't think there is any universal truth. Though if I understood what you meant I could probably give a better answer.

2. Do you think that racism is wrong, in other words, hating people simply based on their ethnicity? Why or why not?

I am a nihilist. I don't find the "wrong" concept useful. I often find racism (as I see it) distasteful and might take action to prevent it.

3. Do you think it is wrong to judge another person's beliefs or actions? Why or why not?

No. Because there's nothing to prevent me. But I don't "judge" people in terms of morality. Morality is not important to me. I observe them. Sometimes those observations lead to action or a change in my beliefs, etc.

4. Do you think morality in America is getting better or getting worse? Why?

Morality does not exist. It is conceptual.

5. What do you think is the purpose of life?

This question is meaningless. What is the purpose of purple?

6. What do you think happens when a person dies? Why?

From the perspective of the person who has died, nothing.

7. What is your view of God? What is He like (if you think he exists)?

Don't believe.

[Prometheus]

Prometheus, how can you simultaneously say that no absolute truth exists, there is no right and wrong, morality is a social delusion, and yet you "feel" racism is wrong? Where do you get this "feeling" from? Where does your compassion come from? Why don't you want them to suffer needlessly?

A good question. My feelings are real but that alone doesn't make them absolute truths(Or mean that such truths exist). We all "feel" that some things are right and some things are wrong but typically these feelings are warped to better serve our own positions in the world(For example, I really doubt a convicted serial killer would beleive that the death sentence is "right" but the family of his victims would seem to be all for it.).

The feeling/compassion comes from me(I believe that "I" am the sum of my past experiences(With a heavy focus on the norms present in my culture) and a fair amount of instinctual tendencies. My personality and beliefs(I) are stored chemically in the wiring of my brain.). My not wanting them to suffer likely stems from a psychological phenomanon known as "death anxiety" which forces us all(Except sociopaths) to emphasise with other living creatures(Especially humans). The phenomonon itself is likely an adaptation our species has undergone to increase the overall survivability of our species.

[mbell31]

mbell 31: For example, sex is promoted as a fun and pleasurable activity to be done at leisure. In fact, it is intended for a marriage relationship and has intense consequences on the participants.

"I would expect that type of answer from a believer, but c'mon... where is it written, other than a religious text, that sex is intended for only a marriage relationship? And I'm guessing the "intense consequences" are pregnancy?"

Where is it written, other than a religious text, that sex is intended for only a marriage relationship? Where is it written that it isn't besides books written by men? I take the Bible to be the very Word of God. I believe everything in it is true and for good reason and that it makes logical sense (a different debate but this is where I am getting some of my reasoning). Where is your authoritative truth that says it is okay to have premarital sex and sex with multiple partners? I'm not necessarily totally committed to the institution of marriage being a necessity, but it is a necessity that two partners (male and female) make a commitment to spend the rest of their lives together in a monogamous relationship and make this known to other people before engaging in sex. The "intense consequences" (intense is not a very good adjective in this case) I am talking about are the giving of one's soul to another in sex and yes I suppose the possibility of pregnancy. When a man and a woman have sex they are united on a deep, immaterial level. It isn't a purely physical union. The Bible describes as the two becoming "one flesh". It is verified in studies of sex and relationship that a unique bond and deep emotional impact is left on partners. Ever heard of the scars left over when people have sex and breakup? It's not the fun, pleasurable activity with no consequences it often gets portrayed as.

    mbell31 wrote:I think the purpose of life is for us to grow to be more like God in holiness and righteousness and to do His work, leading others to salvation through Jesus Christ.

"SO you are of the belief that everyone in the entire world should be Christian. Do you accept that there are other belief systems in the world?"

Yes I think everyone in the world who wants to accept the truth, live the best life possible, and spend eternity in heaven with God should be a Christ. I acknowledge and tolerate that other belief systems exist in the world they are simply incorrect.

    mbell31 wrote:I think when a person dies they either join God in eternal peace and joy in heaven or conversely enter eternal torment and suffering in hell. A person enters heaven if they have accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior or hell if they have not.

"Why do you want to live with the god depicted in the old testament, a being who would gladly toss a good portion of your fellow man into a burning hell? I know, it's my choice. But I have compassion for people who make choices different than mine, esp. when they have bad consequences. Too bad some Christians don't have that same compassion."

The God depicted in the Old Testament is just, righteous, and loving. He is the same God who offered Himself to save us from hell. I have compassion for people, and I make mistakes all the time. The point is humanity underwent a fall (as recorded in Genesis and obvious today) and because of our blatant immorality we deserve eternal punishment. God is perfect, just, and righteous. It would not be fair for Him to say, "Oh well, it's okay that all of these people kill each other, rape each other, kill babies, etc.". Would you like it if someone killed your mother, father, sister, daughter and they were just allowed to go free and live in peace with a smile on their face? Would that be okay with you? We all deserve hell, myself included. God was so gracious he offered us a way out by sending His only unique son so that anyone who believes in Him will be given eternal life. He could have just left us out to dry. Gladly toss people into hell? God wants no one to go to hell. However, out of His love, He lets us decide. He is not going to force us to believe in Him. That wouldn't make any sense. Maybe some "Christians" don't have the compassion you do but I think all true Christians have compassion for others who make mistakes. Christians want nothing more than for people to accept God and go to heaven and they still struggle with sin themselves and hope you have compassion for them too.

    mbell31 wrote:God is an eternal being who exists outside time and space. He created time, space and the universe and all that exists. God is personal, just, holy, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, immortal, and loving among other attributes.

"Which god are YOU talking about? Just? Nope. Holy? Maybe... all the "o" words... not really. I'll give you "immortal" only because his fan club insists that he is. But loving? NO, not the god I read about in the bible."

So, are you admitting God exists?

"So an apologetics class just teaches you how to justify your beliefs? And this is taught in college why?"

An Apologetics class furthers a Christian's ability to defend the Christian faith through the use of logic, reason, and classical argumentation in a modern (or should I say post-modern setting). We are doing this in the hope of convincing others to adopt Christianity. This is taught in college because I go to a Christian University that is interested in preparing people to spread Christianity (to save people's souls) through the accurate representation of a true faith that can be effectively defended through reason.

[rlrose328]

I take the Bible to be the very Word of God. I believe everything in it is true and for good reason and that it makes logical sense (a different debate but this is where I am getting some of my reasoning). Where is your authoritative truth that says it is okay to have premarital sex and sex with multiple partners? I'm not necessarily totally committed to the institution of marriage being a necessity, but it is a necessity that two partners (male and female) make a commitment to spend the rest of their lives together in a monogamous relationship and make this known to other people before engaging in sex. The "intense consequences" (intense is not a very good adjective in this case) I am talking about are the giving of one's soul to another in sex and yes I suppose the possibility of pregnancy. When a man and a woman have sex they are united on a deep, immaterial level. It isn't a purely physical union. The Bible describes as the two becoming "one flesh". It is verified in studies of sex and relationship that a unique bond and deep emotional impact is left on partners. Ever heard of the scars left over when people have sex and breakup? It's not the fun, pleasurable activity with no consequences it often gets portrayed as.

I never said anything about multiple partners, but since you brought it up, I have no problem with it.  It is between the consenting adults involved.  You have no right to say what consenting adults do behind their closed doors, period.

And there is nothing wrong with purely physical unions... they can sometimes be the best unions of all, either married or unmarried.  

And it doesn't matter at all what the bible says about 2 becomming 1 flesh.  The bible is not the law of this, or any other, land.  Yes, there are scars leftover when two people break up, whether there was sex involved or not.  I broke up with many boyfriends LONG before I had sex at all... and each one was extremely painful.  If sex is not fun and pleasureable for you, may you're doing it wrong.  

SO you are of the belief that everyone in the entire world should be Christian.  Do you accept that there are other belief systems in the world?

Yes I think everyone in the world who wants to accept the truth, live the best life possible, and spend eternity in heaven with God should be a Christ. I acknowledge and tolerate that other belief systems exist in the world they are simply incorrect.

Then there is nothing more to discuss.  You have closed your mind to anything that doesn't pertain to Christianity and that's all there is to it, in your mind.  There is nothing I can say that will sway you even a TINY bit, no matter how rational and simple it may be.  I'm an atheist and I accept that you are Christian, that my neighbors are Mormon, that my Mom is Catholic, that a good friend of my son's is Jewish, and that my friends in Iowa are Muslim.  See, it's a big beautiful world full of a big mix of people of all colors and creeds.  If we were all the same, it would be a very VERY sad world.  

And if you think other belief systems are incorrect and you'd obviously lobby to change them, then you are not tolerant, my friend.

The God depicted in the Old Testament is just, righteous, and loving. He is the same God who offered Himself to save us from hell. I have compassion for people, and I make mistakes all the time. The point is humanity underwent a fall (as recorded in Genesis) and because of our blatant immorality we deserve eternal punishment. God is perfect, just, and righteous. It would not be fair for Him to say, "Oh well, it's okay that all of these people kill each other, rape each other, kill babies, etc.". Would you like it if someone killed your mother, father, sister, daughter and they were just allowed to go free and live in peace with a smile on their face? Would that be okay with you? We all deserve hell, myself included. God was so gracious he offered us a way out by sending His only unique son so that anyone who believes in Him will be given eternal life. He could have just left us out to dry. Gladly toss people into hell? God wants no one to go to hell. However, out of His love, He lets us decide. He is not going to force us to believe in Him. That wouldn't make any sense. Maybe some "Christians" don't have the compassion you do but I think all true Christians have compassion for others who make mistakes. Christians want nothing more than for people to accept God and go to heaven and they still struggle with sin themselves and hope you have compassion for them too.

Read your bible again.  The God depicted in the Old Testament is a horrible and manipulative beast.  He asked a man to kill his own son in order to prove his worth.  He destroyed an entire city (more than one) because he wasn't happy with the people.  Heck, he destroyed all of humanity and animal life with a supposed flood!!  All because we were "immoral"?  Wow, whatta guy.  He so willingly destroys his creations whenever he feels like it.

Along those same lines, tell me this... we are WAY more immoral now that we EVER were back then, when he was killing everyone right and left.  Why doesn't he step in now and do it again?  Wait... he promised it wouldn't, right?  Convenient.

So, are you admitting God exists?  

No, not at all... where did you get that?   I'm trying very hard to not be snide... it's hard when you ask questions like this, though.

An Apologetics class furthers a Christian's ability to defend the Christian faith through the use of logic, reason, and classical argumentation in a modern (or should I say post-modern setting). We are doing this in the hope of convincing others to adopt Christianity. This is taught in college because I go to a Christian University that is interested in preparing people to spread Christianity (to save people's souls) through the accurate representation of a true faith that can be effectively defended through reason.

AAAAHhhhhhh... there it is.  You're here to preach to us via this survey in order to save our souls.  There is no way you can use logic and reason to prove that the bible and god are real.  It cannot be done.  You can defend your personal belief in god... but religion as a whole cannot.  Religion, and the process of saving people's souls, is a business... and you've been conned into becoming an unpaid salesperson for them.  Good luck with that.

[curiosityandthecat]

Fail whale, ahoooooooy!

[SSY]

, other than a religious text, that sex is intended for only a marriage relationship? Where is it written that it isn't besides books written by men? I take the Bible to be the very Word of God. I believe everything in it is true and for good reason and that it makes logical sense (a different debate but this is where I am getting some of my reasoning). Where is your authoritative truth that says it is okay to have premarital sex and sex with multiple partners? I'm not necessarily totally committed to the institution of marriage being a necessity, but it is a necessity that two partners (male and female) make a commitment to spend the rest of their lives together in a monogamous relationship and make this known to other people before engaging in sex. The "intense consequences" (intense is not a very good adjective in this case) I am talking about are the giving of one's soul to another in sex and yes I suppose the possibility of pregnancy. When a man and a woman have sex they are united on a deep, immaterial level. It isn't a purely physical union. The Bible describes as the two becoming "one flesh". It is verified in studies of sex and relationship that a unique bond and deep emotional impact is left on partners. Ever heard of the scars left over when people have sex and breakup? It's not the fun, pleasurable activity with no consequences it often gets portrayed as.
.

I know, for a fact that sex can be enjoyed outside of marriage. Having had sex with several partners, both inside and outside of serious relationships, I can attest to the fact I have as much soul as I ever had.The sex was fun, and when it was over it was over, without me being reduced to a gibbering mess.  This is authortative truth, I have experience in the field (bed), and this is a first hand account.

You seem to know a lot about sex, what with the deep imaterial level, not a purley physical union and all, how many people have you had sex with? I am guessing dozens? Or have you measured these things in a quantifiable and repeatable way? It's kind of interesting, because some of the sex I have had was not even emotional, just fun had between two strangers with mutual interest. Are you going to say that my personal experience is some way wrong? Have I been tricked by the devil into beleiving i am fine, when really, deep down I have lost my soul ?

As for the breakup part, people are upset when they breakup for a number of reasons, and people can still be just as upset during a breakup even if they never had sex. The sex is not what causes the hurt of a breakup, it is losing the other person, the emtotional connections and everything else, the sex is not the only thing causing an emotional bond with each other.

Also, lol curio, and secondary lols

An Apologetics class furthers a Christian's ability to defend the Christian faith through the use of logic, reason,

You sir, have a keen wit, I appreciate this in you, if not your close minded and biggoted views.

[Will]

When I say holy I simply mean to be less sinful and more like the perfect God who is righteous in character.

God killed an awful lot of people in the Bible. He usually did so because he deemed the people sinful. You'd not kill a sinner. What I'm assuming you see as righteousness in the character of god would be a breach of the sixth commandment if you decided to take on that roll. As such, you shouldn't seek to emulate the character of god unless you want to face legal and moral consequences. Sorry to use god killing as an example, but it was the first that came to mind. You can be like Jesus, but not god the father.

The goal of the Christian life is to depart from the ways of the sinful world and the practices we naturally want to engage in. I want to be holy like God because he wants me to be transformed into a more holy person. I also want to reflect His image and effectively spread His message. I do not want to be exalted and worshiped. The further I progress as a Christian the more I realize how unholy I am and I will never reach any level of holiness worthy of exultation or worship. I am just a fallen human. Any holiness I ever have is just a gift from God and His image being displayed in me.

You seek to be pious by following as closely as possible the teachings in the Bible.


As for sex being immoral outside of marriage, it is for some people and not for others. Sure, a Christian might believe that morality is objective and written in stone (literally), but it's not. I have morality without religion, and my morality differs from that of religious people, but it is morality just the same. When I have sexâ€"and I really, really doâ€"so long as it's done in a honest relationship with a woman I have genuine feelings for and we both take steps in protecting ourselves, there's nothing inherently damaging about what we do. It adds to the flavor of life, and this is a flavor I really don't want to miss. I'd never suggest that Christians violate their personal morality and have sex outside of marriage, though they do and at higher rates than nonreligious people. You're welcome to your morality and as long as it doesn't hurt other people, I'm glad you're happy.

[parsonii]

1. Do you think there is any universal truth, things that are true regardless of a person's opinion? Why or why not?

Of course, all "truth" are absolute. How the universe came about is an absolute truth. You can believe that God created earth, Adam, Eve, and I can believe that it's the big bang. The truth does not alter because of what we believe. We simply don't know which one of us are wrong, or maybe both of us are wrong.

2. Do you think that racism is wrong, in other words, hating people simply based on their ethnicity? Why or why not?

Of course racism is wrong. Why is that a question? How can you discriminate against someone basing simply on their ethnicity? I do, however, see the evolutionary explanation to racism... but that's beyond the scope of this question.

3. Do you think it is wrong to judge another person's beliefs or actions? Why or why not?

Beliefs, no. Beliefs are private, people are entitled to their own beliefs. Actions, yes. Actions have consequences.

4. Do you think morality in America is getting better or getting worse? Why?

Not quite sure what you mean by "morality" here, and how long of a time line you are talking about. If you are referring to things like gay marriage, I do not think that's a degradation of morality. Over all, I think a societies morality as it become more educated and civilized.

5. What do you think is the purpose of life?

There isn't one. It's what you make it out to be. If I have to say, live a meaningful and happy life without causing pain and suffering to others.

6. What do you think happens when a person dies? Why?

Not certain. I'm an agnostic atheist. I hope there's more to it than our "earthly existence," but as suggested in my answer to Q1, what I hope will not change the truth to whether there is afterlife and what it is like. But IF there is afterlife, I hope it would follow neither the Western (Bible-oriented) religions, i.e. Heaven and hell, or the Eastern (Buddhism) religion (reincarnation). I don't like the sound of either of them. Again, what I like or don't like will not change the truth. We'll just have to wait and find out.

7. What is your view of God? What is He like (if you think he exists)?[/quote]

Cannot begin to phantom. Possibly incomprehensible.