Do we make leaps of faith too?

[DennisK]

SUBJECT REVISION :eek2:    :nerd:  :mad:  :raised:  :hmm:

What if the subject read,
If you do make wide assumptions in any area of your life (something outside your comfort zone, but not atheism/theism), do you have an unfulfilled urge to investigate and fill those voids?

If you do, what's stopping you?  If not, are you OK with other's explanations?  I may be a bit broad, but do you get where I'm coming from?

[McQ]

SUBJECT REVISION :eek2:    :nerd:  :mad:  :raised:  :hmm:

What if the subject read,
If you do make wide assumptions in any area of your life (something outside your comfort zone, but not atheism/theism), do you have an unfulfilled urge to investigate and fill those voids?

If you do, what's stopping you?  If not, are you OK with other's explanations?  I may be a bit broad, but do you get where I'm coming from?

If I correctly understand where you're coming from on this, my answer is yes. But I'm not quite sure I'm on the right track.

I just thought of something. This post of mine is an example of me making a broad assumption about your meaning. LOL! And I'm investigating it further by seeking clarification.  :crazy:

Usually, I am very cautious about responding incorrectly to questions, or things outside of my comfort zone. *****fade to flash back sequence......It goes back to fifth grade, when Mrs. Topper was asking us geography questions, and I wanted to answer a lot of them. I really liked National Geographic, and maps, and all, so I wanted to please my teacher and show her my interest. I kept raising my hand to answer, but she wasn't calling on me. Finally after about the tenth question, she called on me. However, I was so excited that I didn't even really hear what the question was, I just wanted to answer a question. In my excitement, I just blurted out "29,028 feet!". That was the accepted height of Mt. Everest at the time. However, her question had nothing whatsoever to do with Mt. Everest. With a disapproving frown that had, "You're being a troublemaker" written all over it, she said, to the entire class, "Thank you very much, Mr. Wrong Information." (sniff!). I was crushed.**********

Fade in to today.

Hope that answers your question!  

[Wechtlein Uns]

Because I have better things to do that wait until I know everything before I act.

[DennisK]

I just thought of something. This post of mine is an example of me making a broad assumption about your meaning. LOL! And I'm investigating it further by seeking clarification.  

Unfortunately, if you seeking clarity in understanding me better, your journey may never bare fruit.

[Wechtlein Uns]

I just thought of something. This post of mine is an example of me making a broad assumption about your meaning. LOL! And I'm investigating it further by seeking clarification.  

Unfortunately, if you seeking clarity in understanding me better, your journey may never bare fruit.

Would that explain your avatar?

[DennisK]

I just thought of something. This post of mine is an example of me making a broad assumption about your meaning. LOL! And I'm investigating it further by seeking clarification.  

Unfortunately, if you seeking clarity in understanding me better, your journey may never bare fruit.

Would that explain your avatar?

Maybe from the angle of, "why is that chimp making that face", but not because I don't want to be investigated or am antagonistic.  

One of the reasons I posted an avatar subject was to explore whether or not they effect your perception of the user.  With McQ, HAL is in my subconscious and usually conscious thoughts as well.  I probably have a subconscious fear to cross him because of this prejudice.  Need I remind you what happens when you cross HAL?

[McQ]

Maybe from the angle of, "why is that chimp making that face", but not because I don't want to be investigated or am antagonistic.  

One of the reasons I posted an avatar subject was to explore whether or not they effect your perception of the user.  With McQ, HAL is in my subconscious and usually conscious thoughts as well.  I probably have a subconscious fear to cross him because of this prejudice.  Need I remind you what happens when you cross HAL?

   :crazy:

[DennisK]

I'm glad you enjoyed.

[Asmodean]

P.S. Think of me as HAL in 2010, instead of the murdering psycho from 2001.  :eek: But... But... My life is ruind. RUIND, metells you! How COULD you!  :borg:

[curiosityandthecat]

I like the murderous misanthropic HAL better.  

[PipeBox]

I like the murderous misanthropic HAL better.  

Would you like to hear a song?


Anyway, my only leaps of faith are the things that I really, really can't investigate.  Like being in the Matrix.  Which still doesn't matter, because then this is my reality, and science and emotion all still have their full weight because they are functional in this world, same as they ever were.  So it's kind of a meaningless leap of faith, but all the same, I think it qualifies.

Someone on the first page mentioned faith in our very basic knowledge, stating that we all know some facts, but not all, so we can't personally verify the validity of our assumptions without assistance.  Fair enough, but other people do deal in those areas of knowledge that we do not, and they aren't lying to the rest of us unless it's conspiracy across their entire field, and other fields don't interact with it to the extent that bad information would noticeably disrupt them.  I can't think of any fields that would fit this bill, though.  This isn't a huge leap of faith to make, that properly sourced information is good information.   And, in every case, with the assistance of the internet, libraries, or people, I can learn all of the information relevant to those assumptions, making them assumptions no longer.

So would I say I make leaps of faith?  Not by my definition.  I have reasonable expectations, though, like that the sun will rise tomorrow, or that everyone won't turn into murderous psychopaths tomorrow.  And I'm careful not to confuse the two; faith and reasonable expectations.

[McQ]

I like the murderous misanthropic HAL better.  

[Asmodean]

I like the murderous misanthropic HAL better.  :eek: *shudders*

[bowmore]

When I read theist posts, or websites, I shake my head. The texts they produce often have an arrogant tone that doesn't allow a shred of doubt that they are right. As if they cannot make a mistake, since god is at their side.
I am then reminded how shaky a basis we epistemologically have for knowledge, not to say that we don't have any at all. The theists seem to bypass the needed skepsis with the thought : "My truth comes from god, therefore it is unerringly true."

In debates I find myself using that same tone too, though. When debating, I presume to be right. I might not be, yet I do use that tone. It is a debating technique, I guess. While I know, at all times, I may be wrong, I pretend to be right, to better defend my argument.
At this point we may wonder, if the tone theists use doesn't have that same justification, that they use it just as a debating technique? Many probably do, I suspect some don't.

In fact, I debate because I doubt my arguments. I debate to test their strengths, and weaknesses. And with time may re-evaluate my position, because some argument doesn't hold up. My views on all kinds of subjects are always in motion, I'm not holding the same views as two years ago, and I'm sure they will have evolved to something else over the next two years.

I take small steps of 'faith', but am always willing to take a step back, when the ground becomes too unstable.

In the quest for knowledge we should celebrate doubt, we should always question what seems unshakingly true, again and again. As new evidence emerges, or becomes known to us, we must re-evaluate, and try as best as possible, to rid ourselves of the confirmation bias, that we all struggle with.

This is hard, it demands a continuing intellectual effort, one that religions discourage. The truth for them is known and unchangeable, gaining knowledge for them is gaining a better understanding of their teachings and scriptures. That is the sort of leap of faith I do not make : assuming knowlegde to be complete.

I think.  

[DennisK]

I was thinking about dogma as it pertains to science and math and found these quotes.

"Today's scientists have substituted mathematics for experiments, and they wander off through equation after equation, and eventually build a structure which has no relation to reality." - Nikola Tesla, Modern Mechanics and Inventions, July, 1934

“The scientists of today think deeply instead of clearly. One must be sane to think clearly, but one can think deeply and be quite insane.” - Nikola Tesla

"The game here is to lump all the previous observations into one 'hypothesis' and then claim there is no second, confirming observation." -Halton Arp

"The greatest mistake in my opinion, and the one we continually make, is to let the theory guide the model. After a ridiculously long time it has finally dawned on me that establishment scientists actually proceed on the belief that theories tell you what is true and not true!" -Halton Arp

"Students using astrophysical textbooks remain essentially ignorant of even the existence of plasma concepts, despite the fact that some of them have been known for half a century. The conclusion is that astrophysics is too important to be left in the hands of astrophysicists who have gotten their main knowledge from these textbooks. Earthbound and space telescope data must be treated by scientists who are familiar with laboratory and magnetospheric physics and circuit theory, and of course with modern plasma theory." - Hannes Alfvén

"The peer review system is satisfactory during quiescent times, but not during a revolution in a discipline such as astrophysics, when the establishment seeks to preserve the status quo." - Hannes Alfvén

 Hannes Alfvén was Swedish plasma physicist who won the Nobel Prize in 1970 for his work developing magnetohydrodynamics theory)

Despite the warnings of Tesla and many others, astronomy today still ignores (for the most part) the prevalence of plasma and its electrodynamic behaviors.