Questions about "Jesus in my heart"

[Tom62]

I've always been confused by the Christian concept of letting Jesus in your heart. What does that exactly mean, how does that work and  for what purpose? What I asked my Christian friend he told me that the Jesus in his heart guides him to make the right decisions about what is right or wrong. When I asked him whether that was not his own conscious talking he honestly said that "I made a good point and that he really doesn't know". That lead me to the conclusion that the whole idea of "letting Jesus in your heart" was not to be taken seriously. However since most Christians live by the idea that it must have a meaning for them, the whole concept of "Letting Jesus into your heart" still raises a lot of questions.

For example, since Christians claim that there has been only one historical Jesus then I must assume that the Jesus in the heart of one Christian must be the same as the Jesus that is in the heart of all other Christians. If that is indeed the case, then why does Jesus tells those different Christians to believe and do different things? That doesn't really make much sense to me. Another thing that bothers me is that since Jesus is the ultimate source of Christianity, the only person who knows everything what being a Christian is really all about, then why do Christians still have to go to church?  What is the point of listening to what priests are saying, when you already have the ultimate authority of Christianity carrying around you all the time and who can give you all the right answers?

[Voter]

Read 1 Corinthians 12.

[Tom62]

Read 1 Corinthians 12.

So basically what 1 Corinthians 12 is saying is that the spirit comes in you, but each person receives different gifts from it. Like one person gets knowledge, the other wisdom, healing or teaching, etc. etc.  But, how could you identify that someone actually has received such a gift and is not just faking it?  We've seen for example a lot of faith-healers, miracle workers, prophets, etc. that were debunked as being ordinary charlatans. Since there are also many different ideas, believes, dogma's, etc. preached in the different Christian denominations, one might also assume that the gift of knowledge and wisdom is not distributed evenly among Christians. It could also mean the spirit of Jesus tells one Christian one thing and the other Christian something completely different. But that doesn't seem logical to me either.

[Martian]

Jesus speaks to you through your emotions. If you accepted Jesus into your heart and don't have any emotional communication from God, then you haven't gone through enough mental trama or conditioning to make yourself synthesize the emotions and believe they are from God.

[Tom62]

Jesus speaks to you through your emotions. If you accepted Jesus into your heart and don't have any emotional communication from God, then you haven't gone through enough mental trama or conditioning to make yourself synthesize the emotions and believe they are from God.

Even if you've gone through the entire "process" how can you be sure that it is not Jesus talking, but your own conscience? OK, you could believe that it comes from Jesus, but how can you be sure? Before my Christian friend was converted to Christianity he also did good things. When he does the same good things now, he thinks that this is because Jesus is now in his heart. But I don't see or feel that he is anyway different than before. Assuming that it is possible to have Jesus (or his spirit, or whatever) in the heart, there is the still question why it operates different for different people. The spirit inside a Roman Catholic may say "Oh, those homosexuals are not really bad, we can just ignore them" while the spirit inside a newborn Christian may say "Burn those fags". Same spirit(?), at least according to 1 Corinthians 12, but a big difference. In the latter case one might also conclude that the newborn Christian doesn't have Jesus in his heart but an evil spirit. If Jesus would be in his heart and speaks to him through his emotions then his "personal" Jesus doesn't really give him the right moral "feedback". Maybe the  spirit gets broken, if you condition yourself too much  

[curiosityandthecat]

Even if you've gone through the entire "process" how can you be sure that it is not Jesus talking, but your own conscience?

What, exactly, do you think Jesus and God are? They're externalized consciences constructed by a power structure in order to stay in power. Think about it... it's that "little voice" telling you what's right and wrong. That's the whole point. Some people just can't be bothered to create their own moral code they're happy with and need a rulebook.

[Tom62]

What, exactly, do you think Jesus and God are? They're externalized consciences constructed by a power structure in order to stay in power. Think about it... it's that "little voice" telling you what's right and wrong. That's the whole point. Some people just can't be bothered to create their own moral code they're happy with and need a rulebook.

Sure, I also share that common atheistic view. Nevertheless I'm really interested in the Christian point of view(s), because I find the topic so fascinating. The whole concept of Christianity is founded on accepting Jesus in your heart (and some other minor details, like admitting that he raised from the dead after three days, but that is just nitpicking in comparison). If millions of Christians admit that they have Jesus in their hearts, it just can't be a hollow phrase? Or are Christians only pretending that it is true? Like Martian already said, if you are conditioned well enough you may actually believe that it is true (even if it really isn't true).  Anyway I'm pretty much confused. Reading 1 Corinthians 12 clarified some of my questions, but raised at the same time even more questions.

[Asmodean]

Jesus speaks to you through your emotions. If you accepted Jesus into your heart and don't have any emotional communication from God, then you haven't gone through enough mental trama or conditioning to make yourself synthesize the emotions and believe they are from God.

Hmm... That sounds like some variety of schizophrenia or some other mental illness that gets a guy hospitalised...  :eek: "[/i]

[curiosityandthecat]

If millions of Christians admit that they have Jesus in their hearts, it just can't be a hollow phrase?

Why not?   The phrase "Eat At Joes: 10,000,000 fruit flies can't be wrong!" doesn't mean Joe's is great, it just means a bunch of flies eat there. We can't look at the current state of religiosity or Christianity in a vacuum; it has a long, strangled-root history with surprises, subversion, and coincidences that have made it the superpower it is today. The thing most Christians don't realize is that Christ had almost nothing to do with it.

Or are Christians only pretending that it is true? Like Martian already said, if you are conditioned well enough you may actually believe that it is true (even if it really isn't true).

I wouldn't say "pretending," as that implies knowledge of its falsehood. And yes, Martian is right: people can be conditioned to believe just about anything. Look at Stockholm syndrome. Look at operant conditioning. Look at collective obsessional behavior. Look at the bandwagon effect. Look at herd behavior.

Anyway I'm pretty much confused. Reading 1 Corinthians 12 clarified some of my questions, but raised at the same time even more questions.

I would warn against looking for answers in the Bible. At least, answers to questions raised by the book. As long as you're in the closed system of Christianity, it's fine, because everything has been constructed to fit. Bring any outside information or logic into the system, and it all falls down.

[Voter]

Read 1 Corinthians 12.

So basically what 1 Corinthians 12 is saying is that the spirit comes in you, but each person receives different gifts from it. Like one person gets knowledge, the other wisdom, healing or teaching, etc. etc.

Yep.

But, how could you identify that someone actually has received such a gift and is not just faking it?  We've seen for example a lot of faith-healers, miracle workers, prophets, etc. that were debunked as being ordinary charlatans.

By the methods that these were debunked.

Since there are also many different ideas, believes, dogma's, etc. preached in the different Christian denominations, one might also assume that the gift of knowledge and wisdom is not distributed evenly among Christians. It could also mean the spirit of Jesus tells one Christian one thing and the other Christian something completely different. But that doesn't seem logical to me either.

Why can't knowledge and wisdom be distributed unevenly?

[Will]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbiote_(comics)

[Msblue]

The Egyptians believed your intelligence and thought came from your heart and god(s) spoke to you through it. Maybe this phrase is a spin off of that thought process?

[Tom62]

The Egyptians believed your intelligence and thought came from your heart and god(s) spoke to you through it. Maybe this phrase is a spin off of that thought process?

Yes , people have been thinking that for a very long time. A pity that the gift of wisdom and knowledge from the spirit of Jesus didn't bring the wisdom and knowledge that wisdom and knowledge comes from the brain instead of the heart. What is the point of those useless gifts, if you can't rely on them. Based on all the inputs received so far on my questions, I can only conclude that the whole idea of having Jesus in your heart is nothing but superstitious nonsense.

[Voter]

The Egyptians believed your intelligence and thought came from your heart and god(s) spoke to you through it. Maybe this phrase is a spin off of that thought process?

Yes , people have been thinking that for a very long time. A pity that the gift of wisdom and knowledge from the spirit of Jesus didn't bring the wisdom and knowledge that wisdom and knowledge comes from the brain instead of the heart. What is the point of those useless gifts, if you can't rely on them.

Uh, have you considered that heart is just a figure of speech in this context? Do atheists give Valentine's candy in brain-shaped boxes? If so, it's no wonder that atheists have a lower birth rate.  

[SteveS]

Do atheists give Valentine's candy in brain-shaped boxes? If so, it's no wonder that atheists have a lower birth rate.

Oh bloody hell.  I knew I was doing something wrong!  Note to self: heart candy, not brain candy; that's the ticket.

Do atheists have a lower birth rate?  Who even thought to study that?  Is a higher birth rate better in an environment where overpopulation is becoming an issue?  This was such a fascinating little side-point.  I couldn't help but wonder how I fit, personally, into the bigger picture.  The 2000 US census I found (http://www.census.gov/population/socdemo/hh-fam/tabST-F1-2000.pdf) reported the average number of children per family in the US at 0.90.  Among families with at least one child, the average number was 1.86.  I've got 2, so I'm at least ahead of the averages, although I have no idea how this breaks down by theist/atheist.  Which is funny to even think about.

Anyhow, I'm glad I at least had children in whole-numbers.  .9 of a child, or .86, even, sounds disturbing and weird.  Now, who let the .75-of-a-dog back in the house?