Constructive Discussion: ID in Science Classrooms

[Will]

ID in science classrooms has been discussed to death by most atheists, myself included. I, personally, see it as the forefront of the war against science and reason. Indoctrination of the young.

So what do we do to stop this? We can I, an individual a thousand miles from a school teaching ID, do to bring science back to public schools and move religion to where it belongs, in churches and private schools? This thread will be a discussion about real world strategies and tactics to answer these questions.

1) Highlighting all of the areas that are effected: We should locate all individuals in the public school system who are pushing for religion to be taught in science classrooms. This isn't about persecution, but rather simply to create a Creationist version of Megan's Law.

2) Education: It seems redundant to try and teach the schools and teachers that religion isn't science, but apparently it's become necessary. We need to have educated people (people who hold degrees in the areas they wish to teach) come in and review the lessons to ensure that they adhere to correct scientific theory. If the teachers are providing incorrect or outdated information, the lesson will be revised and the teacher required to teach correct information.

3) Those who disagree: There are people out there who don't care that ID isn't science and want it taught as a part of a fundamentalist agenda. These people need to be shows for who they really are. Forcing religion on innocent children against their parents wishes and against the implied separation of church and state which is upheld in legal precedent is wrong.

Ideas?

[Moses]

This might be something that might not be realistic but I think we really need the judiciary to get involved. We need to pool our money and resources to fund cases against it across the country. ID is so clearly not objective science that the federal courts need to ban it across all of the states. I understand that people have problems with the judiciary being undemocratic and what not but that is exactly why he have them. They need to curb the excessive legislation of the tryannical majority.

The fight against intelligent design had some great success in the Kitzmiller v. Dover decision. If only we could get more federal district courts to rule this in their jurisdictions. Ideally it would be great for the Supreme Court to rule it across the U.S of A but with it's current line up I am not certain about that.

I think a simple teaching of science without the pushing of atheism onto people is really all we need in this area.

[tornado]

I think it is important to show school administrators how ID is more than just an innocent theory. Every time we hear about another school adding ID to their curriculum, we should send letters to the administrators of the school and the district telling them why ID does not belong in the classroom. Maybe it's not the most effective method for change, but if we fill their inboxes and mailrooms with concerned letters, they'll have to do something, right?

This might be something that might not be realistic but I think we really need the judiciary to get involved. We need to pool our money and resourced to fund cases against it across the country. ID is so clearly not objective science that the federal courts need to ban it across all of the states. I understand that people have problems with the judiciary being undemocratic and what not but that is exactly why he have them. They need to curb the excessive legislation of the tryannical majority.

I agree with this. I think taking ID to the high courts is the only way we can truly be rid of it. A federal ban on teaching ID in public schools would be a huge step forward for secular America. All we need is a team of really good lawyers.

[MommaSquid]

...I think taking ID to the high courts is the only way we can truly be rid of it. A federal ban on teaching ID in public schools would be a huge step forward for secular America. All we need is a team of really good lawyers.

 
There are far too many religious idiots in politics and the judiciary to get ID legally banned. You can't legislate stupidity away.  People need to understand the foolishness of faith, religion and ID.  But how do we replace thousands of years of religious meme with reason and logic?

[Smallville]

Most of the folk involved in trying to establish ID in classrooms are not the teachers or administration but politicians who feel it is their obligation, their duty to introduce non-scientific standards in the class. They feel it is their right to introduce legislation, pass ordinances, and establish what a public school must teach since they control the purse-strings. From local school boards (district, county and state) the board members, rather than focusing on basics and then expanding learning, interfere with classroom time on every inane thing from ID to DARE to the damned No Child mandated crap.

That out of my system, what can we do? There’s letters, phone calls, faxes, e-mails, petitions to the local schools, the district offices (state, local, and national), and the same to school board members and any politicians involved in the process.

You have to hit locally first then branch out.

If you’re concerned about things in another state â€" e-mails work great since there is no verification of location.

Schools are listed on line with administrator’s names â€" some with e-mail addresses. Most district offices â€" ditto. State offices are quagmires trying to get hold of anyone for anything but your best shot is to go for anyone in Standards, Curriculum, or textbook approval. Be prepared for bureaucratic BS from everyone.

School board members are more difficult to contact; however, most district meetings are open to the public and grievances may be heard with proper notification ahead of time.

Some school districts even list e-mail addresses for school board members. The easiest way to find a particular school district is to go to that state’s department of education website and there should be links to the different ones in that state. The district websites have links to the schools in their area, principals, teachers, board members, and so on.

Also, one can respond through letters to the editor of local and state-wide newspapers and the forums on newspapers and television stations in the area.

Remember, if corresponding by e-mail, make sure that you have an appropriate sounding return address (nothing like hotsexpot@barfmail or the like).

Hope some of these help.

[weedoch]

I am frankly astounded that ID is taught in science classrooms anywhere, and in the UK this is virtually unheard of even though the religious groups would probably quite like it to be and a recent survey showed 40% of respondants as being unable to rule out creationism. We have separate religious education classes (RE) where all religions are taught and discussed, together with philosophy and alternative views on life origins. I'm assuming you have the same in the states, and it might be worth strenuously pointing out that all non-scientific viewpoints belong there. It's ironic really that Britain is not at its core a secular society - our head of state is also the head of the Church of England - but all politics and the judiciary are staunchly secular. Our school system is probably more faith based than in the states with legislation demanding at least one act of religious worship every day, most schools either ignore this or say a mild grace before lunch though. We also have planty of faith schools, who smugly love the fact that they are generally higher acheiving, neatly ignoring the fact that they are allowed to screen entry, grr.

[myleviathan]

Most of the folk involved in trying to establish ID in classrooms are not the teachers or administration but politicians who feel it is their obligation, their duty to introduce non-scientific standards in the class.

But where the rubber meets the road is in the classroom, isn't it? Teachers, if they feel so inclined, can slip ID into their teaching plans, or leave it out and teach science regardless of what politicians want can't they? Maybe we just need more atheist science teachers. I would think it's impossible to keep teachers from teaching their agenda if it's something they're passionate about.

[Jolly Sapper]

It kinda seems that if ID is getting any traction at all in the classroom from the students (other than the fundie kids) themselves then there has been something missing in the discussion of the scientific method and in explaining just what it is that makes science "science."

[Smallville]

Most of the folk involved in trying to establish ID in classrooms are not the teachers or administration but politicians who feel it is their obligation, their duty to introduce non-scientific standards in the class.

But where the rubber meets the road is in the classroom, isn't it? Teachers, if they feel so inclined, can slip ID into their teaching plans, or leave it out and teach science regardless of what politicians want can't they? Maybe we just need more atheist science teachers. I would think it's impossible to keep teachers from teaching their agenda if it's something they're passionate about.

Most teachers have their lesson plans reviewed ahead of time by a department chair, supervisor, or such, and most have to meet State or District standards. Unless the standards include the ID crap most teachers don't have time to include it if they wanted to since class time is at a premium. Teaching outside of the standards is a sure way to get fired these days.

[afreethinker30]

But look at the school system.It's been coming down to this for a very long time now.Children start out their day saying One Nation Under God.Reading levels are getting worse,math,science and history grades are going down.More children are dropping out.This is American land of bible thumping,preaching,poor,under educated...what a great nation.Children in private religious schools recieve a much better education then public schools.Science should be based on fact not a lazy way of explaining anything.But we are in smaller numbers,if only even those who are theist but reasonable could get in on this,there would be a much better chance.If I even see this topic brought about in my childrens school I will pull them out and homeschool.Honestly how many fundie creation loving freaks go to college for chemistry or any type of science.They will drag our country down with this.Sorry turned more into a rant.  

[Moses]

I am pretty sure (though I might be wrong) that the whole "One nation, under God..." was added awhile after the original pledge was created. It was inspired to contrast the United States against the godless Soviet Union in the fifties at the height of the cold war. I think "In God We Trust" was not added to the money until after the Civil War.

What a great way to represent freedom by conforming to your enemies stereotype of you. The Theocratic Republic of the United States of America vs the Atheistic Politburo of the Soviet Union!!

I love how the religious right overlook the fact that many of the United States founding fathers were deists, the closest thing you could get to being atheist at the time. So this country was founded by a bunch of highly educated white men (some rich some nearly poor but held in high regard) that believed in rationality and would therefore be a bunch of heathans to the modern fundie.

Also during the Barbary Wars the United States issued a specific proclamation that is was a non-christian government!!
Another thing worth mentioning is that abortion was legal at this time except the operation was primitve and dangerous. It was not outlawed until the mid to late 1800's.