Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:57:45 AM
While Buddhist and Neopaganist had much more of a warmer welcome as freethinkers. But this is just from my own experience, so this is why I only answer if someone asks.
I'd equally consider none of the above freethinkers. Freethinker means someone who doesn't allow dogma to dictate their beliefs http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freethinker
You probably have perceived that buddhists and pagans get a warmer welcome because fewer of their group has a tendency to tell atheists that they are evil and going to hell (if you look through the religion section and especially the troll post section you'll see that the mean Christians who post here outnumber the nice ones)....humans have natural tendencies to react poorly if faced with a person who seems similar to someone who has harmed them in the past; that doesn't make it right but that's just how humans behave. If you were on a predominantly middle eastern atheist forum you'd find that they'd be faster to jump on someone who follows Islam than they would a Christian....it just so happens that Christianity is the predominant religion in the English speaking world and is therefore more likely to trigger poor reactions from English speaking non-Christians due to past experience.
Those of us who have been lucky enough to not have emotional scarring from being raised fundamentalist or having to live in a predominantly fundamentalist area tend to have an easier time remembering that not all Christians act like the fundie jerks. Since online forums provide a sanctuary of sanity for atheists in areas over run by fundamentalism you'll find that online atheist communities have a higher number of people who are about on their last straw with Christians.
In short, we're only human....I'm sure many atheists here could tell you of how poorly they were treated on some Christian forum when someone of some religion was more readily accepted.
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:57:45 AM
While Buddhist and Neopaganist had much more of a warmer welcome as freethinkers. But this is just from my own experience, so this is why I only answer if someone asks.
Personally I don't have a problem with pagans and Buddhists and it's largely because they don't have a long bloody history of persecuting atheists, freethinkers or anyone else who doesn't happen to believe in their gods or religion (unlike you followers of Jesus the Nazarene!)
Welcome to the forum
Quote from: Tank on August 05, 2011, 08:14:07 AM
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 06:00:17 AM
Quote from: Whitney on August 05, 2011, 02:02:02 AM
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 12:10:14 AM
I will post a FAQ for those seeking a thoughtful Christian response to various topics for those who wish to hear an answer.
Please wait to do anything like that till after you get access to the religion section.
When do newcomers get that access?
10 posts an your in.
:)
Quote from: Whitney on August 05, 2011, 03:30:12 PM
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:57:45 AM
While Buddhist and Neopaganist had much more of a warmer welcome as freethinkers. But this is just from my own experience, so this is why I only answer if someone asks.
I'd equally consider none of the above freethinkers. Freethinker means someone who doesn't allow dogma to dictate their beliefs http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/freethinker
You probably have perceived that buddhists and pagans get a warmer welcome because fewer of their group has a tendency to tell atheists that they are evil and going to hell (if you look through the religion section and especially the troll post section you'll see that the mean Christians who post here outnumber the nice ones)....humans have natural tendencies to react poorly if faced with a person who seems similar to someone who has harmed them in the past; that doesn't make it right but that's just how humans behave. If you were on a predominantly middle eastern atheist forum you'd find that they'd be faster to jump on someone who follows Islam than they would a Christian....it just so happens that Christianity is the predominant religion in the English speaking world and is therefore more likely to trigger poor reactions from English speaking non-Christians due to past experience.
Those of us who have been lucky enough to not have emotional scarring from being raised fundamentalist or having to live in a predominantly fundamentalist area tend to have an easier time remembering that not all Christians act like the fundie jerks. Since online forums provide a sanctuary of sanity for atheists in areas over run by fundamentalism you'll find that online atheist communities have a higher number of people who are about on their last straw with Christians.
In short, we're only human....I'm sure many atheists here could tell you of how poorly they were treated on some Christian forum when someone of some religion was more readily accepted.
Understandable, hope things work out here!
Quote from: Too Few Lions on August 05, 2011, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:57:45 AM
While Buddhist and Neopaganist had much more of a warmer welcome as freethinkers. But this is just from my own experience, so this is why I only answer if someone asks.
Personally I don't have a problem with pagans and Buddhists and it's largely because they don't have a long bloody history of persecuting atheists, freethinkers or anyone else who doesn't happen to believe in their gods or religion (unlike you followers of Jesus the Nazarene!)
Welcome to the forum
Can't say how I find that relevant. I don't think comparing the social embarrassing past of the crusades or inquisitions nor the nihilist, Stalin regime has much to do with the accuracy of representing a worldview.
Anyways, thanks for the welcome sir!
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:19:19 PM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on August 05, 2011, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:57:45 AM
While Buddhist and Neopaganist had much more of a warmer welcome as freethinkers. But this is just from my own experience, so this is why I only answer if someone asks.
Personally I don't have a problem with pagans and Buddhists and it's largely because they don't have a long bloody history of persecuting atheists, freethinkers or anyone else who doesn't happen to believe in their gods or religion (unlike you followers of Jesus the Nazarene!)
Welcome to the forum
Can't say how I find that relevant. I don't think comparing the social embarrassing past of the crusades or inquisitions nor the nihilist, Stalin regime has much to do with the accuracy of representing a worldview.
Anyways, thanks for the welcome sir!
You had said that you perceived a warmer welcome towards pagans or buddhists, Too Few Lions expressed something the might explain the cause. That is why it is relevant. Christians are emotionally put into bad basket because Christianity has a bloody history complete with oppression, coercion and torture. It's not logical, but it's a reason.
Welcome to the forums.
Quote from: Davin on August 05, 2011, 05:31:53 PM
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:19:19 PM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on August 05, 2011, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:57:45 AM
While Buddhist and Neopaganist had much more of a warmer welcome as freethinkers. But this is just from my own experience, so this is why I only answer if someone asks.
Personally I don't have a problem with pagans and Buddhists and it's largely because they don't have a long bloody history of persecuting atheists, freethinkers or anyone else who doesn't happen to believe in their gods or religion (unlike you followers of Jesus the Nazarene!)
Welcome to the forum
Can't say how I find that relevant. I don't think comparing the social embarrassing past of the crusades or inquisitions nor the nihilist, Stalin regime has much to do with the accuracy of representing a worldview.
Anyways, thanks for the welcome sir!
You had said that you perceived a warmer welcome towards pagans or buddhists, Too Few Lions expressed something the might explain the cause. That is why it is relevant. Christians are emotionally put into bad basket because Christianity has a bloody history complete with oppression, coercion and torture. It's not logical, but it's a reason.
Welcome to the forums.
If that is reasonable, then would you not say the same of white western European males who explored the Americas? Should their past actions be perceived the same in the present?
Thanks again for the welcome!
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 06:03:44 PMIf that is reasonable, then would you not say the same of white western European males who explored the Americas? Should their past actions be perceived the same in the present?
Thanks again for the welcome!
In my opinion, neither should happen. I don't think people should hastily generalize. Unfortunately we as humans tend to create our own biases whether intentional or not.
My point was more for clarification, not a justification. Knowing why something is happening is not the same as justifying the cause.
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:19:19 PM
Quote from: Too Few Lions on August 05, 2011, 03:46:37 PM
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 05:57:45 AM
While Buddhist and Neopaganist had much more of a warmer welcome as freethinkers. But this is just from my own experience, so this is why I only answer if someone asks.
Personally I don't have a problem with pagans and Buddhists and it's largely because they don't have a long bloody history of persecuting atheists, freethinkers or anyone else who doesn't happen to believe in their gods or religion (unlike you followers of Jesus the Nazarene!)
Welcome to the forum
Can't say how I find that relevant. I don't think comparing the social embarrassing past of the crusades or inquisitions nor the nihilist, Stalin regime has much to do with the accuracy of representing a worldview.
Anyways, thanks for the welcome sir!
Personally, I have the same general dislike of Stalinism that I have of Christianity. I view both as pernicious ideologies that have caused the suffering and death of tens of millions.
Christian intolerance to non-believers (or people they deem to be 'sinful') goes way beyond the murderous excesses of the Middle Ages, it can be traced back to the earliest Christian writings / Church Fathers / first Christian emperors and many people still suffer from it to this day. Thankfully you sound like one of the more tolerant variety of Christians.
But you're right in that any hostility any of us have as an atheist should be aimed at your religion and not at you personally. It would be wrong to show any hostility or intolerance or rudeness towards you just because you're a Christian (although I can see why some atheists might be naturally friendlier towards pagans and Buddhists than towards Christians for the reasons given by a few of us above). I don't think you'll experience any negative vibes from anyone on this forum just because of your faith, from my limited experience they're generally a friendly bunch.
Quote from: Cforcerunner on August 05, 2011, 12:10:14 AM
And I am afraid it's the atheist's favorite religion!
Hello Cforcerunner and welcome aboard
So you are a Christian, good for you.
I'm an atheist and I totally accept your right to choose any religious stance that you want.
If you don't try to evangalise me and you maintain civilty then I think many interesting (and possibly revealing) conversations can be had.
Animated Dirt is a longtime and well respected Christian member of this forum, but for some reason we do seem to get many more Christian theist visitors than we do non Christian theist visitors.
Quote from: Too Few Lions on August 05, 2011, 06:51:06 PM
Personally, I have the same general dislike of Stalinism that I have of Christianity. I view both as pernicious ideologies that have caused the suffering and death of tens of millions.
Christian intolerance to non-believers (or people they deem to be 'sinful') goes way beyond the murderous excesses of the Middle Ages, it can be traced back to the earliest Christian writings / Church Fathers / first Christian emperors and many people still suffer from it to this day. Thankfully you sound like one of the more tolerant variety of Christians.
But you're right in that any hostility any of us have as an atheist should be aimed at your religion and not at you personally. It would be wrong to show any hostility or intolerance or rudeness towards you just because you're a Christian (although I can see why some atheists might be naturally friendlier towards pagans and Buddhists than towards Christians for the reasons given by a few of us above). I don't think you'll experience any negative vibes from anyone on this forum just because of your faith, from my limited experience they're generally a friendly bunch.
I'd agree with your first statement, and thankfully my decision to be Christian was not based on the actions done in the crusade, and it is indeed unfortunate so many wrongs have been done in the name of Christ. However, it is truly after reading and reflecting on the words and hope Jesus spoke of is what I believe and hold dear.
I enjoy discussing on forums such as these, as I believe I represent Christian ideology in sense that not many may be familiar with. Although I may not be the most intelligent Christian out there, I still try to be a good and well-spoken representative.
good on you, I'll look forward to hearing what you have to say, and will try not to be too anti-Christian ;)
QuoteWhile Buddhist and Neopaganist had much more of a warmer welcome as freethinkers. But this is just from my own experience, so this is why I only answer if someone asks.
Well, for a start, most Buddhists are atheists. As for Neopagans, they tend to be far more relaxed that not everybody shares their beliefs. Hence they don't have much of a track record of making other peoples lives hell.
I think that polytheists, such as neopagans, tend to be more accepting of other gods. They don't see themselves as holding any monopoly on truth (there's only one god of the entire universe and creation, and it happens to be my personal god).
That's the impression I got from the Hindus, at least those that were not as caught up in the political opposition towards Pakistan for Kashmir.
Take any passage in history from the dark ages or crusades;seeing the church torture people in the most vile ways, it will make your stomach turn.
For centuries, Christians have been violently killing anyone who didn't share their fairy tale views.
With that said, I personally don't have anything against a Christian person today unless they try to persecute me for being gay or atheist. If they are civil, and are a nice person, then I could care less what fake god they worship.
Christianity also tend to have a large drive to evangalise which is incredibly annoying.
Quote from: Stevil on August 06, 2011, 08:03:59 PM
Christianity also tend to have a large drive to evangalise which is incredibly annoying.
Not to mention try to dictate how non Christians should live.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 07, 2011, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: Stevil on August 06, 2011, 08:03:59 PM
Christianity also tend to have a large drive to evangalise which is incredibly annoying.
Not to mention try to dictate how non Christians should live.
And walk about so willfully ignorant, acting like their god is so powerful and amazing, and rules the world.
Anyone else hate when they say "even atheists ll be judged?"
Quote from: Sweetdeath on August 07, 2011, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 07, 2011, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: Stevil on August 06, 2011, 08:03:59 PM
Christianity also tend to have a large drive to evangalise which is incredibly annoying.
Not to mention try to dictate how non Christians should live.
And walk about so willfully ignorant, acting like their god is so powerful and amazing, and rules the world.
Anyone else hate when they say "even atheists ll be judged?"
By whom? Theists here on earth? ;)
I say theists will be judged by His Holy Nooddliness. Those who He blesses by washing their hair with Holy Sauce will make their way into the great Maggi factory in the sky while the rest will have to be content with plain, overcooked and under nutritious white rice.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 07, 2011, 02:09:36 AM
Quote from: Sweetdeath on August 07, 2011, 02:05:34 AM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 07, 2011, 12:24:07 AM
Quote from: Stevil on August 06, 2011, 08:03:59 PM
Christianity also tend to have a large drive to evangalise which is incredibly annoying.
Not to mention try to dictate how non Christians should live.
And walk about so willfully ignorant, acting like their god is so powerful and amazing, and rules the world.
Anyone else hate when they say "even atheists ll be judged?"
By whom? Theists here on earth? ;)
I say theists will be judged by His Holy Nooddliness. Those who He blesses by washing their hair with Holy Sauce will make their way into the great Maggi factory in the sky while the rest will have to be content with plain, overcooked and under nutritious white rice.
Rofl, I love you xD that's hilarious.
I do not dislike Christians...
I hate the pity they emit when you actually are asked "What church do you go to?"
And you answer truthfully
One sentence
"i do not go to church my people are atheist"
I know right now my colleague is trying to silently exorcise me!
It completely freaks her out I live without dogma
The exorcism is funny...the true pity for my destiny.. pisses my off
Rick Perry is a GREAT example of why I could be pressed into admission I dislike Christian behaviors!
How awful that just was!
I am a long standing member on a Pagan forum. And they are indeed a lot more relaxed with other religions coming in to the fold so to speak. I think this is because Paganism on a whole tends to be polytheistic. So they are already well versed in how to interact with other gods and believers. While monotheists really don't like having their tree shaken too hard with the other gods concept. Thankfully as a Satanist, I am a misanthrope. An equal importunity hater. :D
I don't dislike every follower of any religion. I have many friends here in our village who are regular churchgoers and, mostly, strongly christian. We work together all the time on village events and organisations. They don't obviously judge me or try to convert or control me, and we get on fine. The same would be true of members of other religions, but AFAIK we don't have any.
I dislike the creationist baptists who run a stall in Leominster market, handing out leaflets and talking about the lord. I'm often there too, collecting for a charity for the disabled, and they never give us money or even stop and talk to my disabled friends.
I am offended by robotically religious faithheads who insult the human intellect with things like the eruv (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eruv). It makes me wriggle with embarrasment.
I've been reading that link. Why not just do the hokey pokey while you are at it? :P
And now...behold hither of what this impious olde trout hath wrought.
Perhaps I should answer THIS question: Why does this atheist dislike Christians?
I dislike all Christians...every one of them. But why...
I dislike the religious right who meddles in politics to the religiously neutral who say nothing of those that meddle.
I dislike the self-deprecating Rapture Readies to the glib superiority complex ridden, self commendatory self fulfilling Armageddon evangelicals.
I have no respect for them and their differing worldviews.
I have been called arrogant at times but to claim that I am privy to the secrets of the universe and its invisible creator is beyond my conceit. I simply have no choice but to find something suspect even in the most humblest believer. Even the most humane and compassionate theists are complicit in their quiet and irrational authoritarianism and proclaim us created sick and commanded to be well.
Christians declare me redeemed by a vicarious human sacrifice that occurred thousands of years before I was born. I didn't ask for it, and would have willingly, ethically and morally foregone it. And if I refuse this unsolicited gift? Well, there are still some vague mutterings about an eternity of torment for my ingratitude. Yea, even the most humble of Christian believers are totalitarian in this way.
A religion rooted in violence, the irrational, intolerannce, racism, tribalism, bigotry, ignorance, hostile to free inquiry, hostile to free speech other than their own and hostile to free will, holds women in contempt and coercive toward children: Organized religion really hasn't changed that much.
I wake up every day to a sensation of pervading disgust and annoyance. I feel as if I'm falling prey to premature curmudgeonhood thanks to asshats like Gov. Rick Perry and those haters of the constitution...haters of anything that is outside their worldview.
Wow, Gawen.. *____* (<~ face of admiration)
I really enjoyed what you had to say. I suppose all christian, even the more tolerant ones, still feel the need to pray for thy soul.
You know, when I was a kid, I remember asking my dad "i didnt know Jesus.. I didn't know adam or eve, so what does this matter to my life?"
I wish I remembered the answer, but I don't. I did always find it annoying how people live by, "oh, jesus sacrificed himself for us!"
I want a shirt that states: "Jesus died for our sins, but I didn't ask him to" or "Jesus died oweing me $2." I want a lot of shirts. XD
Quote from: Sweetdeath
Wow, Gawen.. *____* (<~ face of admiration)
You are too kind...*grinnin*. Be careful not to swell my prematurely curmudgeonly head...*laffin*
Quote
I really enjoyed what you had to say. I suppose all christian, even the more tolerant ones, still feel the need to pray for thy soul.
I have found myself becoming less tolerant of all Christians for precisely what I wrote above...and more. The more the militant xtians encroach upon our freedoms and the tolerant xtians who never seem to say anything are opposite sides of a coin that's lost its value.
QuoteYou know, when I was a kid, I remember asking my dad "i didnt know Jesus.. I didn't know adam or eve, so what does this matter to my life?"
I wish I remembered the answer, but I don't. I did always find it annoying how people live by, "oh, jesus sacrificed himself for us!"
If only theists would do some actual biblical studies...
QuoteI want a shirt that states: "Jesus died for our sins, but I didn't ask him to" or "Jesus died oweing me $2." I want a lot of shirts. XD
Try: "I didn't ask Jesus to die for me". It'd be cheaper...*grinnin*. And "Jesus died owing my x 100 great grandpa 2 dollars" on the back put "Well, how do you know he didn't?"
Quote from: Gawen on August 07, 2011, 07:07:08 PM
Quote from: Sweetdeath
Wow, Gawen.. *____* (<~ face of admiration)
You are too kind...*grinnin*. Be careful not to swell my prematurely curmudgeonly head...*laffin*
Quote
I really enjoyed what you had to say. I suppose all christian, even the more tolerant ones, still feel the need to pray for thy soul.
I have found myself becoming less tolerant of all Christians for precisely what I wrote above...and more. The more the militant xtians encroach upon our freedoms and the tolerant xtians who never seem to say anything are opposite sides of a coin that's lost its value.
QuoteYou know, when I was a kid, I remember asking my dad "i didnt know Jesus.. I didn't know adam or eve, so what does this matter to my life?"
I wish I remembered the answer, but I don't. I did always find it annoying how people live by, "oh, jesus sacrificed himself for us!"
If only theists would do some actual biblical studies...
QuoteI want a shirt that states: "Jesus died for our sins, but I didn't ask him to" or "Jesus died oweing me $2." I want a lot of shirts. XD
Try: "I didn't ask Jesus to die for me". It'd be cheaper...*grinnin*. And "Jesus died owing my x 100 great grandpa 2 dollars" on the back put "Well, how do you know he didn't?"
This was Gawans 666th post and just for that one post total he has the forum title of 'Evil Inside'. ;D
Quote from: Gawen on August 07, 2011, 03:32:41 PM
And now...behold hither of what this impious olde trout hath wrought.
Perhaps I should answer THIS question: Why does this atheist dislike Christians?
I dislike all Christians...every one of them. But why...
I dislike the religious right who meddles in politics to the religiously neutral who say nothing of those that meddle.
I dislike the self-deprecating Rapture Readies to the glib superiority complex ridden, self commendatory self fulfilling Armageddon evangelicals.
I have no respect for them and their differing worldviews.
I have been called arrogant at times but to claim that I am privy to the secrets of the universe and its invisible creator is beyond my conceit. I simply have no choice but to find something suspect even in the most humblest believer. Even the most humane and compassionate theists are complicit in their quiet and irrational authoritarianism and proclaim us created sick and commanded to be well.
Christians declare me redeemed by a vicarious human sacrifice that occurred thousands of years before I was born. I didn't ask for it, and would have willingly, ethically and morally foregone it. And if I refuse this unsolicited gift? Well, there are still some vague mutterings about an eternity of torment for my ingratitude. Yea, even the most humble of Christian believers are totalitarian in this way.
A religion rooted in violence, the irrational, intolerannce, racism, tribalism, bigotry, ignorance, hostile to free inquiry, hostile to free speech other than their own and hostile to free will, holds women in contempt and coercive toward children: Organized religion really hasn't changed that much.
I wake up every day to a sensation of pervading disgust and annoyance. I feel as if I'm falling prey to premature curmudgeonhood thanks to asshats like Gov. Rick Perry and those haters of the constitution...haters of anything that is outside their worldview.
Well.......I still like you, Gawen :D
Quote from: Cforcerunner
Well.......I still like you, Gawen :D
*smilin*...
I would definitely love a black shirt, with bold red letters: "i didn't ask Jesus to die for me."
Remembering he was a carpenter, it would funny to think of him dying before he finished my great, great, great, great grandparent's stable. "thanks jesus :/"
It just occurred to me, thanks to you Sweetdeath, that however ironic it may be, that carpenter died on a rough hewn cross...what an insult that must have been.
LOL!! Jesus built the cross he died on makes me laugh so hard, I snorted. :<
After thinking about this...all afternoon...
I do dislike a person, no matter how benign he/she may be that would see me "born in sin" inherited from an ancestor, that (Jewish illegal) vicarious atonement sacrifice cleanses me of that sin, and yet undergo torture by a loving god for eternity because I don't believe it. To know that a coworker thinks in the back of his head that I'm going to hell, no matter how much we may laugh and joke and just try to get through the day does not endear me to him.
Can I respect them? Well, respect comes in levels. Can you respect a cop? How about a cop that has been awarded many medals for years of great service......but has just been found out that he's physically abused his wife for years?
Can you respect a cop that coerces his children about the beauty of Heaven when, if you look at the concept, Heaven is a totalitarian state with no private or personal life, with the incessant worship of a mediocre career-sadist as the only culture, where all citizens are the permanent property of the state?
Can you respect the honored cop who believes the entire apparatus of absolution and forgiveness as moral and believes in the concept of revealed truth (when the concept of revealed truth degrades the concept of free intelligence by relieving us of the task of working out the ethical principles for ourselves)? And yet what if he endorses the death penalty for adulterers?
I can respect a person for the good he may do. But I cannot respect one that holds the desire that there be an unalterable, unchallengeable, immutable, infallible tyrannical authority. An authority who can convict you of thought crime (even while asleep) and one who must, indeed, subject you to total surveillance around the clock - every minute of your life and before you're born and after you're dead.
No, despite the good a Christian may do, the evil they do cancels out the good. The evils they do to others and themselves and the poison they instill in their children and children around the other side of the globe through missionary work...these people I dislike.
One has to be extremely careful demonising over one billion people for a belief they hold when the vast majority of them do not hold that belief through choice but upbringing.
Quote from: Gawen on August 07, 2011, 03:32:41 PM
And now...behold hither of what this impious olde trout hath wrought.
Perhaps I should answer THIS question: Why does this atheist dislike Christians?
I dislike all Christians...every one of them. But why...
I dislike the religious right who meddles in politics to the religiously neutral who say nothing of those that meddle.
I dislike the self-deprecating Rapture Readies to the glib superiority complex ridden, self commendatory self fulfilling Armageddon evangelicals.
I have no respect for them and their differing worldviews.
I have been called arrogant at times but to claim that I am privy to the secrets of the universe and its invisible creator is beyond my conceit. I simply have no choice but to find something suspect even in the most humblest believer. Even the most humane and compassionate theists are complicit in their quiet and irrational authoritarianism and proclaim us created sick and commanded to be well.
Christians declare me redeemed by a vicarious human sacrifice that occurred thousands of years before I was born. I didn't ask for it, and would have willingly, ethically and morally foregone it. And if I refuse this unsolicited gift? Well, there are still some vague mutterings about an eternity of torment for my ingratitude. Yea, even the most humble of Christian believers are totalitarian in this way.
A religion rooted in violence, the irrational, intolerannce, racism, tribalism, bigotry, ignorance, hostile to free inquiry, hostile to free speech other than their own and hostile to free will, holds women in contempt and coercive toward children: Organized religion really hasn't changed that much.
I wake up every day to a sensation of pervading disgust and annoyance. I feel as if I'm falling prey to premature curmudgeonhood thanks to asshats like Gov. Rick Perry and those haters of the constitution...haters of anything that is outside their worldview.
Wow you must be really really really really really really busy meeting every single Christian on the planet. I bet you have a shitload of frequent flier miles.
Quote from: Tank on August 08, 2011, 08:31:50 AM
One has to be extremely careful demonising over one billion people for a belief they hold when the vast majority of them do not hold that belief through choice but upbringing.
Therein lies one of the biggest problems, Tank. What difference can it make when a person comes to Christianity from another religion or a child is indoctrinated with it by a Christian family? They are their own demons - those from a religious right fundamental minority that would seek to theocratise the nation as compared to those liberal Christians who choose to say nothing.
Upbringing: The same rules or laws of probability must govern in religious questions as in others. There is no subject, and can be none, concerning which any human being is under any obligation to believe without evidence. The problem with 'upbringing' is that most believers do not question the religion in any meaningful way, believe without evidence and that most feel they are under an obligation to believe because of their upbringing. After all, Mom and Dad and all my relatives and my neighbours and all my friends at church simply wouldn't lie to them, now would they? And I submit that most are flattered by their exercise of ignorant credence.
Every Christian person according to the structure of his mind, experience, thought processes, intelligence and prejudice or genius will arrive at the conclusion that Jewish theology and the Islamic God are false belief systems because their mind seeks the path of least resistance, and their conclusions are also dependent upon hereditary tendencies, society.
The Christian wonders and scoffs at the Pagan; and yet it must be understood that the Gods of stone, water, air or fire listens to the Pagan's prayers and protects their worshipers precisely as the Christian God listens to prayer and protects his worshipers. The Christian wonders and scoffs at the one whom seems to achieve a higher consciousness and tranquility found outside his most loving God.
Yes, Tank, every religion demonises every other religion. And these man made demons have been inferred, planted and grown from superstition. They become demons themselves while demonising others.
Quote from: Medusa
Wow you must be really really really really really really busy meeting every single Christian on the planet. I bet you have a shitload of frequent flier miles.
I think you have missed my point, but that's alright.
Just know that I return the sentiment back to those that do not respect or dislike me because I do not have faith in their invisible loving god that is also unknowable and works in mysterious ways, in creating himself from a virgin, changes the laws of physics in the first half of the first century and then kills himself to placate his wrath on us to then sit beside himself in Heaven.
Just know that I have met a slew of Christians who have tried to either convert me, thinks I'm angry at God, filled with demons or Satan, going to Hell if I don't accept Jesus, wished me dead or bodily injury, thinks I'm stupid because I can't see what they obviously and naturally see and feel in their hearts and a whole host of other unique and fun stuff. And I am relatively sure by my experiences with Christians that even though those that say nothing to me know in their heart I am doomed - and they can't help but thinking it. I find it sad and deplorable behaviour.
And suffice it to say that yes, I do not have many friends at all. And also, yes, I get along with most everyone, due to my nature. But it doesn't mean I have to like them.
And while I'm at it, many of you here may think I am painting with a very broad brush. Far be it from the truth and I would implore you to go back and read my posts.
Hey you don't need to convince us of your hate. I hate some people simply because they smell funny. I'm just honest in my hate.
Hate.
Such an ugly word.
A word you conveniently and unwarrantably place in my mouth. Does not the thread title ask "Why do atheists seem to dislike Christians?" Have I not given my answer? As truthfully as I can?
Quote from: Gawen on August 09, 2011, 12:45:32 AM
Hate.
Such an ugly word.
A word you conveniently and unwarrantably place in my mouth. Does not the thread title ask "Why do atheists seem to dislike Christians?" Have I not given my answer? As truthfully as I can?
Hate isn't an ugly word. It's just more honest. You dislike Christians. I get it. It's all good.
EDIT: Fixed quotes. Tank
Quote from: Medusa on August 09, 2011, 08:58:09 AM
Hate isn't an ugly word. It's just more honest. You dislike Christians. I get it. It's all good.
Dislike and hate have different meanings...if someone says they don't hate someone you have to take their word for it because you can't jump into their head and feel what they feel.
But it's NOT all good. It sucks! I don't want to dislike anyone, but being human, it's a trait that cannot be gotten rid of. You do me a great disservice by analogising me in with those that hate all Muslims because of 9/11. You seem to think that I am the same as those Americans who hate all Germans because of what the Nazi's did. This is wrong. I do not hate Christians, Muslims or Germans. Matter of fact, I never really used to dislike Christians, having been one of them years ago. But today is a different day.
I am a veteran; of the South East Asian War Games. I took an oath to protect the Nation from its enemies, foreign and domestic. You folks that are not American citizens and/or live outside the United States and those of you who do not understand what I've written above or do understand but do not agree with me; I shall try to enlighten you forthwith.
I consider the politically active Religious Right who hide behind the Religious Conservative Teabaggers, and those that support Dominionist Theology, Christian Reconstructionism, Theonomy and American Theocracy as enemies of the (Secular) State.* I consider them Christian Fascist and I don't like them, period. Radical view to hold, is it not? What is just as radical is that I also uphold their right to worship and believe what they will, just as I do for anyone living in this country. But until you folks understand this politically Ultra Conservative Christian movement is no longer the tiny minority that it once was and is a threat to EVERYONE'S freedom in America, those American citizens reading this and do nothing about it deserve the possible fate that will be crashing down over your civil liberties.
*You may call Bullsh*t for me to lump believers that mind their own business in with the doorknockers or usurpers of the constitution. However, Christian liberals, Secular Christians, liberals, atheists, agnostics, apolitical persons, spiritualist, seculars (humanist or not) and conscientious objectors who sit idly by and say or do nothing, turn a blind eye or say crap like "That'll never happen here" are nearly as equal enemies of the State. It's extremely irresponsible. I simply do not understand their apathy. What is to like about them?
Here are a few examples of why I dislike what is written above in red:
Dominionism is a tendency among Protestant Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists that encourages them to not only be active political participants in civic society, but also seek to dominate the political process as part of a mandate from God.
"With the apathy that exists today, a small, well-organized minority can influence the selection of candidates to an astonishing degree." -Pat Robertson, The Millennium, 1990). Robertson was right even 21 years ago; voter apathy is key to the phenomenal ascent of the theocratic right in the U.S. government.
The Republicans, have moved to a mentally corrupted Shangri-La, where unwanted problems, like climate change or the need to pay the costs of running the government can be wished away, where prejudice trumps fact (Obama might just be Kenyan-born or a Muslim, and indeed the vast majority of Republicans still believe Obama is not a US citizen), expertise is evidence of error, and reality comes to be regarded as some kind of elitist plot. The problem is that these ultra religious conservatives don't see themselves as their own elitist plotters.
"Our job is to reclaim America for Christ, whatever the cost. As the vice regents of God, we are to exercise godly dominion and influence over our neighborhoods, our schools, our government, our literature and arts, our sports arenas, our entertainment media, our news media, our scientific endeavors -- in short, over every aspect and institution of human society."-Dr. James Kennedy, "Reclaiming America for Christ" conference in February, 2005
"We will not try to reform the existing institutions. We only intend to weaken them, and eventually destroy them," - Paul Weyrich, Free Congress Foundation.
Read up on this stuff:
http://www.religioustolerance.org/reconstr4.htm
for one example
These people are enmeshed throughout politics. Another example:
American Vision is a Christian Reconstructionist organization of Gary DeMar, that publishes books and newsletters, runs a discussion board, a web-based radio show, and annual conferences and engages in other activities to promote the dominionist views. It also publishes one of its most well-known associates, Gary North, the son-in-law of Christian Reconstructionist founder R.J. Rushdoony, and are both supporters of Ron Paul whose economic writings have also influenced Rand Paul. DeMar has another companion organization (Vision to America) that raises money for and promotes candidates for elected office. This companion organization sent a fundraising appeal in support of Nevada's Republican nominee to the U.S. Senate, Sharron Angle, from South Carolina Senator Jim DeMint's political action committee, the Senate Conservatives Fund.
You Texans remember Tom DeLay? Well guess what he is??!!
So tell me, what's to like about these people?
I've gone far past the point when trying to dodge or soften the issue of religion infecting politics when that is mistakenly deemed the "constructive" route. I've have had enough of nudging conservative Christians and asking politely if they'd please leave their religions to themselves. Atheists, in recent years, have finally begun to have their coming-out party, but you're not going to hear soft language from me about this. I'm going to be blunt; I HAVE to be blunt. It may even be considered abrasive, although that is not my intention.
If religious persons want on board and want to do something secularly constructive for all, that's great and there is no need to dislike a person that genuinely cares and wants to do right. But people have been far too nice, for far too long, far to respectful about religion in the public square. What I have learned, I think, is that when you're nice and you soften your message, nobody really listens. So now the message is that religious ideology needs to get the hell out and stay the hell out of politics.
I would really like believing in superstition (organised or not) to be socially unacceptable, or, if you will, 'uncool'. As it stands, people are generally respected for their "faith,". I would really like religious believers to get used to their religion being mocked, gently or otherwise. I want non-believers to realize that it's okay to disrespect belief in belief and belief of things not seen and hoped for. This is the sort of social change I'm envisioning.
@ Medusa: Now, if you have a need for me to have a soft voice projecting this message, in order to even give it the time of day, well, I think the time is up for that. I want religion out of politics, and there's no valid counterpoint to that position.
And I am genuinely surprised of the lack of replies in this thread after I've been posting even if one agrees with me or not. Apathy. It does a body no good.
Quote from: Gawen on August 09, 2011, 04:51:06 PM
I want religion out of politics, and there's no valid counterpoint to that position.
I'll help you hold up a banner saying exactly this.
Quote from: AnimatedDirt on August 09, 2011, 09:48:30 PM
Quote from: Gawen on August 09, 2011, 04:51:06 PM
I want religion out of politics, and there's no valid counterpoint to that position.
I'll help you hold up a banner saying exactly this.
We actually had a group of Christians help protest Rick Perry's prayer rally just this past week.
I split off the protesting discussion (well, most of it) to here: http://www.happyatheistforum.com/forum/index.php?topic=8072.0
Quote@ Medusa: Now, if you have a need for me to have a soft voice projecting this message, in order to even give it the time of day, well, I think the time is up for that
I'm not really sure what that even means. I'm a Satanist. Does it look like I need anyone to tip toe around their dislike for anything? I hate quite openly. And Whitney I am purposefully using that word to describe my own actions here. I don't dislike things as much as hate. I do balls out when it comes to emotions. Though you are right Gawen didn't say he hated Christians. He just dislikes all of them. My bad. I hadn't realized it was possible to dislike them all. But ok.
I don't think it's apathy keeping people from replying to this thread.
I just noticed that I didn't add my own views to this thread whcih worries me slightly because I get people in real life speaking for me all the time so...
It's not that I dislike Christians because they are Christians (or whatever other religious denomination). That argument is essentially fallacious, and a false generalisation. I dislike what people use a positive philosophy to do and justify behaviours that I find to be wrong and undesirable. Outside of those, there are no conflicts with what I think and what other people choose to believe in their private lives.
I'm certain that even within the Christian religion, people can (and do) cherry pick parts of the bible that I don't see any problem with. As far as I'm concerned, Jesus can be a good moral teacher to some people, if they should choose to follow his philosophy. On the other hand, I know some people who I hope never leave religion, because...I'm not so sure about what they would do without a god in the sky always watching them and holding them to external and imposed standards. ::)
The main problem I have with religious philosophies is that they really do think that they are god's messenger's on Earth, and use that to justify (and especially remove their own personal accountability from) their behaviours. Not to mention religion actually encourages non critical group-think, which is almost always disasterous.
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 10, 2011, 06:43:59 PM
I just noticed that I didn't add my own views to this thread whcih worries me slightly because I get people in real life speaking for me all the time so...
Bad bad Phinx. Does silver tarnish?...*mischievous grin*
I don't mean to pick you apart, so don't take it that way? But I'm not understanding a few things.
QuoteI dislike what people use a positive philosophy to do and justify behaviours that I find to be wrong and undesirable.
How do you reconcile that, with this:
QuoteThe main problem I have with religious philosophies is that they really do think that they are god's messenger's on Earth, and use that to justify (and especially remove their own personal accountability from) their behaviours. Not to mention religion actually encourages non critical group-think, which is almost always disasterous.
QuoteI'm certain that even within the Christian religion, people can (and do) cherry pick parts of the bible that I don't see any problem with.
But don't you find the cherry picking a problem in itself?
QuoteAs far as I'm concerned, Jesus can be a good moral teacher to some people, if they should choose to follow his philosophy.
Have you studied Jesus' philosophy? When compiled and seen as a whole, it's anything but good and moral. And this should one way or another take you back to your cherry picking comment. What good is a philosophy that is corrupt and what is good of a person who cherry picks what they feel is the good parts of a corrupt philosophy and claim the entire philosophy and themselves as good?
QuoteOn the other hand, I know some people who I hope never leave religion, because...I'm not so sure about what they would do without a god in the sky always watching them and holding them to external and imposed standards. ::)
I hear that!!
Once again I'll say this. I don't have a problem with religion, per say and theists. What I dislike is the few American segments of a so-called Christianity who would push their views on the entire society AND those other segments that do not quite believe the few who won't stand up to it...and that is just about all American Christians.
Quote from: Medusa on August 10, 2011, 05:30:50 AM
Quote@ Medusa: Now, if you have a need for me to have a soft voice projecting this message, in order to even give it the time of day, well, I think the time is up for that
QuoteI'm not really sure what that even means. I'm a Satanist.
If you, as a Satanist, have read what I posted throughout this thread, and haven't understood it, then I beseech you to take another look. Satanist and atheists have much to fear. But I'm not going to explain it all over again. The underlined in the quote above is a response to what I perceive as you may be thinking I'm too harsh about it. I may be wrong.
QuoteDoes it look like I need anyone to tip toe around their dislike for anything? ... Though you are right Gawen didn't say he hated Christians. He just dislikes all of them. My bad. I hadn't realized it was possible to dislike them all. But ok.
When you put words in my mouth that aren't there, I find it dishonest. What I find most disturbing is that you cannot see WHY I dislike nearly all theists, whether you agree with me or not. I've given my reason; some may say they are faulty or fallicious, but it's why I dislike them. Many Christians may be the brightest and most productive members of our society, but if they are not willing to uphold what the framers of the constitution designed for this country, or suffer some sort of apathy towards it, well....I simply dislike that.
QuoteI hate quite openly.
Yes, we've been told and seen just that.
QuoteAnd Whitney I am purposefully using that word to describe my own actions here.
Yet you would put the word "hate" in my mouth to make my actions seem what they are not.
QuoteI don't think it's apathy keeping people from replying to this thread.
Well, enlighten me as to what you think that is.
Quote from: Gawen on August 11, 2011, 01:48:45 PMQuote from: Medusa on August 10, 2011, 05:30:50 AMI don't think it's apathy keeping people from replying to this thread.
Well, enlighten me as to what you think that is.
I haven't limited my replies because of apathy or agreement, I've already said my piece and haven't been bothered enough say any more. If I saw anything that seemed to be irrational, I would question it to find out where the problem lies (often it is with my interpretation of what a person says). I am replying now to provide my own reason for not replying since you have been posting, in order to provide at least one alternative reason.
Quote from: Davin on August 11, 2011, 04:30:02 PM
Quote from: Gawen on August 11, 2011, 01:48:45 PMQuote from: Medusa on August 10, 2011, 05:30:50 AMI don't think it's apathy keeping people from replying to this thread.
Well, enlighten me as to what you think that is.
I haven't limited my replies because of apathy or agreement, I've already said my piece and haven't been bothered enough say any more. If I saw anything that seemed to be irrational, I would question it to find out where the problem lies (often it is with my interpretation of what a person says). I am replying now to provide my own reason for not replying since you have been posting, in order to provide at least one alternative reason.
I didn't mean you. I was addressing Medusa.
Quote from: Gawen on August 11, 2011, 04:47:34 PM
Quote from: Davin on August 11, 2011, 04:30:02 PM
Quote from: Gawen on August 11, 2011, 01:48:45 PMQuote from: Medusa on August 10, 2011, 05:30:50 AMI don't think it's apathy keeping people from replying to this thread.
Well, enlighten me as to what you think that is.
I haven't limited my replies because of apathy or agreement, I've already said my piece and haven't been bothered enough say any more. If I saw anything that seemed to be irrational, I would question it to find out where the problem lies (often it is with my interpretation of what a person says). I am replying now to provide my own reason for not replying since you have been posting, in order to provide at least one alternative reason.
I didn't mean you. I was addressing Medusa.
I was replying because the line of this part of the discussion had come from what seemed like a general statement:
Quote from: Gawen on August 09, 2011, 04:51:06 PMAnd I am genuinely surprised of the lack of replies in this thread after I've been posting even if one agrees with me or not. Apathy. It does a body no good.
If only Medusa is to answer this question, all she would be left with to answer would be speculation (especially if you feel that no one else can present their reasons). I think asking someone to present more than speculation, then saying the question was only directed at a person who would have no reasonable access to more than speculation, is a kind of trap. So now she can answer with more than just her initial speculation by using my post as an example of a reason for someone not posting that doesn't fit into your dichotomy.
You are calling out and dealing with having words put into your mouth or things you've stated taken out of context, so I didn't feel any particular pull to pipe up about those things. I just thought this one thing required another voice if you wanted Medusa to answer with more than speculation.
Quote from: Gawen on August 11, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
Quote from: xSilverPhinx on August 10, 2011, 06:43:59 PM
I just noticed that I didn't add my own views to this thread whcih worries me slightly because I get people in real life speaking for me all the time so...
Bad bad Phinx. Does silver tarnish?...*mischievous grin*
Oh definitely :-X
QuoteQuoteI dislike it when people use a positive philosophy to do and justify behaviours that I find to be wrong and undesirable.
QuoteHow do you reconcile that, with this:
QuoteThe main problem I have with religious philosophies is that they really do think that they are god's messenger's on Earth, and use that to justify (and especially remove their own personal accountability from) their behaviours. Not to mention religion actually encourages non critical group-think, which is almost always disastrous.
I really ought to put more effort into choosing a better way of wording my sentences. :-X
What I meant by "positive philosophy" is that all forms of theism are ideological systems which
have doctrines, tenets, dogmas, etc. Regardless of whether it's Islam, Christianity or any other, it is an ideological system. People do things in the name of their theistic ideological system.
Atheism (besides positive atheism, perhaps), on the other hand, is not a philosophy. It's not an ideological system which will influence a person's behaviour and values. It makes no sense whatsoever to do things in the name of atheism. So on the basis of just the labels 'atheism' and 'theism' alone they're not on comparative levels.
I didn't use 'positive' to mean 'good', but 'not empty'.
QuoteBut don't you find the cherry picking a problem in itself?
No, I only have a problem with what some people choose to cherry pick, not the actual cherry picking. As far as I'm concerned, people can choose the better parts of the bible to construct their own personal philosophies. But you can't have it both ways: cherry pick and say that the bible is all perfect and inerrant.
The main thing is that that would mean that people have to be honest with themselves and put aside the double-think associated with interpreting the bible. I don't know just how difficult doing so is for some.
If there are people who inspired by the bible can do good things, why should I have a problem with that?
Liberal Catholics, for instance. Why should I care about what they base their values on if they're consistent with the moral zeitgeist?
I guess the bad part of this is that they in some way validate institutions such as the Vatican. But even the Vatican depends on the believers to exist. If people's worldview changes, the Vatican will as well, even if at the pace of a dying but not yet dead snail. And I'd risk saying that they know this fact very well ;D
QuoteHave you studied Jesus' philosophy? When compiled and seen as a whole, it's anything but good and moral. And this should one way or another take you back to your cherry picking comment. What good is a philosophy that is corrupt and what is good of a person who cherry picks what they feel is the good parts of a corrupt philosophy and claim the entire philosophy and themselves as good?
I think that thinks can be improved upon, which would mean interpreting things in light of modern societies, and not as a medieval barbaric cult would have it.
On a Catholic forum I even asked clarification for one of Jesus' passages that called his followers to kill unbelievers. An apologist said that it was meant in symbolic terms or something. Anyways, it doesn't really matter. What was going on is the guy gave other ideas moral precedence over one that said that unbelievers should be killed...cherry picking based on innate and cultural factors separate from the bible as a whole and source, even if he looked to the bible and interpreted it to validate them.
And that's the bible, there's something in it for anybody, and people can read it any way they wish and get very different messages from the same passage. Luckily, for most, their moral compass is separate from the bible (they just don't know that very well) and so [most] won't interpret that passage as meant to be taken literally nowadays. ???
QuoteQuoteOn the other hand, I know some people who I hope never leave religion, because...I'm not so sure about what they would do without a god in the sky always watching them and holding them to external and imposed standards. ::)
QuoteI hear that!!
Once again I'll say this. I don't have a problem with religion, per say and theists. What I dislike is the few American segments of a so-called Christianity who would push their views on the entire society AND those other segments that do not quite believe the few who won't stand up to it...and that is just about all American Christians.
Tricky situation. Makes one wish they could go back to being apathetic. :(
QuoteThe underlined in the quote above is a response to what I perceive as you may be thinking I'm too harsh about it. I may be wrong.
No. I don't think you are being too harsh in your opinions. They are yours and you feel strongly about them. I think you want my approval maybe? I don't know. I don't know why you feel the need to harp on how I view your opinion. So..let's move that along ok?
QuoteWhen you put words in my mouth that aren't there, I find it dishonest
I was wrong in stating you hated Christians. I think I made that clear that I made that mistake after Whitney pointed it out to me. I wouldn't want someone to do that to me. Which is why I mentioned that I had made that mistake. I then used the word YOU have been using over and over and over again. DISLIKE. I don't know what's wrong with that word, since you seem to use it quite often. Once again I apologize for saying you hate Christians. You dislike them. I got it.
QuoteWhat I find most disturbing is that you cannot see WHY I dislike nearly all theists, whether you agree with me or not.
I do understand your reasons. In fact in some other thread (or this one maybe) I made mention that it's your perception of things. And that I can't imagine what that would be like. I am not you and have not been through your experiences. It still seems you NEED me to agree with your reasons for disliking Christians. I am not you. And I simply cannot agree. I can understand perhaps. But I cannot agree. As you probably can't agree or understand my views on this subject as well. But I don't need you to understand me.
QuoteYet you would put the word "hate" in my mouth to make my actions seem what they are not.
I've acknowledged my error. I apologized for my error. Let's move on from that.
QuoteWell, enlighten me as to what you think that is.
What Davin said.
[/quote]I was replying because the line of this part of the discussion had come from what seemed like a general statement:
Quote from: Gawen on August 09, 2011, 04:51:06 PMAnd I am genuinely surprised of the lack of replies in this thread after I've been posting even if one agrees with me or not. Apathy. It does a body no good.
If only Medusa is to answer this question, all she would be left with to answer would be speculation (especially if you feel that no one else can present their reasons). I think asking someone to present more than speculation, then saying the question was only directed at a person who would have no reasonable access to more than speculation, is a kind of trap. So now she can answer with more than just her initial speculation by using my post as an example of a reason for someone not posting that doesn't fit into your dichotomy.
You are calling out and dealing with having words put into your mouth or things you've stated taken out of context, so I didn't feel any particular pull to pipe up about those things. I just thought this one thing required another voice if you wanted Medusa to answer with more than speculation.
[/quote]I can't think of anything else to say, but, Sorry, for my bad manners.
Quote from: Stevil on August 06, 2011, 08:03:59 PM
Christianity also tend to have a large drive to evangalise which is incredibly annoying.
I've often thought that most of the hate Xtians see from atheists is actually annoyance -- at least it reads like annoyance to my atheist eyes -- and calling it hate is just being melodramatic or, worse, trying to set themselves up as martyrs for their religion.
I know I certainly get annoyed at anyone who wants to use the law to force their personal religious practices on everyone else, or who assumes I'm innately evil (or, at best, the unwitting servant of evil) because I don't believe what they say about an invisible, immortal superman or decide not to do what they claim their invisible, immortal superman wants me to do.
QuoteWhy do atheists seem to dislike Christians?
Can't speak for atheists in general, but I do not dislike Christians - I dislike Christianity. Why..? Unfounded arrogance, lies, fascist-like attitudes, stupidity-by-choice, child abuse... Need I continue?
Quote from: Gawen on August 11, 2011, 01:30:08 PM
But don't you find the cherry picking a problem in itself?
I cherry pick all the time. There isn't one person who I wish I was like, but almost everyone I have met has a quality that I admire and strive to emulate.
Maybe because of most of Christians dislike/avoid atheists and as a result atheists dislike Christians. (IMO)