A question about prayer

[Sandra Craft]

I just thought of another question about prayer: is it possible to pray without reference to the supernatural or petitioning a deity? 

I've always thought one could, and certainly I do when called upon to pray (which admittedly isn't often), but I've been told these aren't real prayers since a prayer is by definition an act of worship directed at a deity.  So what I'm doing is just chattering about something.

I reckon you answered your question.

It would have been if that had been my opinion of what I was doing.  It just seems to me that it's possible to express in prayer general feelings of thankfulness about something, without bringing a supernatural entity into it.

[Buddy]

I just thought of another question about prayer: is it possible to pray without reference to the supernatural or petitioning a deity? 

I've always thought one could, and certainly I do when called upon to pray (which admittedly isn't often), but I've been told these aren't real prayers since a prayer is by definition an act of worship directed at a deity.  So what I'm doing is just chattering about something.

I reckon you answered your question.

It would have been if that had been my opinion of what I was doing.  It just seems to me that it's possible to express in prayer general feelings of thankfulness about something, without bringing a supernatural entity into it.

I think I see what you mean. Like saying "Thank goodness" after something good happens.

[Amicale]

I just thought of another question about prayer: is it possible to pray without reference to the supernatural or petitioning a deity? 

I've always thought one could, and certainly I do when called upon to pray (which admittedly isn't often), but I've been told these aren't real prayers since a prayer is by definition an act of worship directed at a deity.  So what I'm doing is just chattering about something.

I reckon you answered your question.

It would have been if that had been my opinion of what I was doing.  It just seems to me that it's possible to express in prayer general feelings of thankfulness about something, without bringing a supernatural entity into it.

I think I see what you mean. Like saying "Thank goodness" after something good happens.

I understand what you're both saying, for sure. I think it's entirely possible to want to express thankfulness or gratitude without it being directed to God, or to one specific person even. A supernatural entity doesn't need to enter the equation, although for some people, it will. I'm routinely thankful for, happy about, or grateful for many things. In all of those cases, I'm aware that humans played a role behind the scenes in a lot of those cases - ie, the food I eat, the healthcare I receive, the paychecks I get, the time I spend with family and friends, etc. For things that involve no human action but I'm still happy about (ie, a beautiful morning, a lovely summer thunderstorm, my cat purring next to me in bed)... I can just feel happy it happened. Nobody specific to thank really, other than just being fortunate to have witnessed it.

[Sandra Craft]

Yes, exactly, xSP and Amicale.  It also occured to me that I've seen Buddhists mentioned as having no god in particular, some have even called it an atheist religion, and yet I'm quite sure they pray (I'll have to look into that).  Why should they be the only non-theists to do so?

Edited to add this:  Buddhist Prayers

[Amicale]

Yes, exactly, xSP and Amicale.  It also occured to me that I've seen Buddhists mentioned as having no god in particular, some have even called it an atheist religion, and yet I'm quite sure they pray (I'll have to look into that).  Why should they be the only non-theists to do so?

This might sound dumb or at least odd, but have you (or anyone here) just talked out loud or in your mind to someone who isn't actually there physically? For example, talking out loud to a deceased loved one? I've done this before, and it's not because I think they can hear me, but honestly because it just feels good to do so, sometimes. It's not 'prayer' exactly, more like releasing emotions and sharing your thoughts.

[Gawen]

What you're doing, then, is redefining "prayer" as being thankful of or conversely damning someone or something. Being thankful is expressing gratitude or appreciative of something or perhaps pleasing to the mind or senses or agreeable or welcome or maybe even refreshing and doesn't need the extra baggage by calling it "prayer".

[Sandra Craft]

Well, I've never considered the word "prayer" as having baggage, so maybe that's where we're parting company on the word.

And now that I think of it, it took me maybe 2 seconds to find hundreds of Buddhist prayers on the internet -- prayers without reference to a deity, prayers that predate Xtianity.  I think there's some room for arguement that prayer as absolutely requiring mention of a god is the redefinition, not prayer with optional mention of a god. 

[Sweetdeath]

Well, I've never considered the word "prayer" as having baggage, so maybe that's where we're parting company on the word.

And now that I think of it, it took me maybe 2 seconds to find hundreds of Buddhist prayers on the internet -- prayers without reference to a deity, prayers that predate Xtianity.  I think there's some room for arguement that prayer as absolutely requiring mention of a god is the redefinition, not prayer with optional mention of a god. 

Atheist religion? Uh.. That's kinda really an oxymoron, isn't it?

And why the need for prayer? Yeah, buddhists are peaceful, but its still a religion. They still obide by a set of guidelines, as well as a world view of karma and rebirth. (Both of which are highly improbable )
They go to temples abd oray. Offer food to a statue altar. If that doesnt sound like religion...

[En_Route]

Well, I've never considered the word "prayer" as having baggage, so maybe that's where we're parting company on the word.

And now that I think of it, it took me maybe 2 seconds to find hundreds of Buddhist prayers on the internet -- prayers without reference to a deity, prayers that predate Xtianity.  I think there's some room for arguement that prayer as absolutely requiring mention of a god is the redefinition, not prayer with optional mention of a god. 

Atheist religion? Uh.. That's kinda really an oxymoron, isn't it?

And why the need for prayer? Yeah, buddhists are peaceful, but its still a religion. They still obide by a set of guidelines, as well as a world view of karma and rebirth. (Both of which are highly improbable )
They go to temples abd oray. Offer food to a statue altar. If that doesnt sound like religion...

You are quite right that Buddhism has been institutionalised and invested with all the paraphernalia of organised religion. However, the original teachings of Buddha do not presuppose a deity of any kind and his central insights are completely rational in nature. Karma etc is of course complete tosh but it is not an integral part of Buddha's own philosophy. In fact , most of what he says aligns with the findings of modern neuroscience and psychological therapies based on his thinking have been validated scientifically and have been sanctioned by the National Health Service in the UK. That of course doesn't make them correct but they are certainly not mystical jumbo jumbo by any means.

[Sweetdeath]

Helping a friend sort his late uncle's old mail for shredding right now.
I came across this gem about prayer that i had to share:
(it's actually writen in all caps.)

GOD ANSWERS PRAYER!  AND POLICE OFFICERS WHO KNOW THE BIBLE KNOW FULL WELL THAT PRAYER IS YOUR FIRST BEST HOPE TO CONQUER CRIME, SIN AND THOSE PROBLEMS TROUBLING YOU AND OUR SOCIETY

People who believe this are totally sane, right?   sheeesh.

[Amicale]

Helping a friend sort his late uncle's old mail for shredding right now.
I came across this gem about prayer that i had to share:
(it's actually writen in all caps.)

GOD ANSWERS PRAYER!  AND POLICE OFFICERS WHO KNOW THE BIBLE KNOW FULL WELL THAT PRAYER IS YOUR FIRST BEST HOPE TO CONQUER CRIME, SIN AND THOSE PROBLEMS TROUBLING YOU AND OUR SOCIETY

People who believe this are totally sane, right?   sheeesh.

Wow. Well, all I know is that if I call 9-1-1 for help, I want the police/fire/ambulance to show up pronto and help me. If they take 15 seconds to mutter a prayer as they're running down to their vehicle it makes no difference to me if it helps them feel better, but they'd better spend their time getting to the scene of the emergency, rather than spending it down on their knees. I don't exactly want an officer showing up 10 minutes too late, and telling me 'sorry Ma'am, I'm late, I stopped to pray rather than rushing over here.'

Eh. In all likelihood, in my neck of the woods, they'd stop for a coffee instead. 

[Sandra Craft]

This might sound dumb or at least odd, but have you (or anyone here) just talked out loud or in your mind to someone who isn't actually there physically? For example, talking out loud to a deceased loved one? I've done this before, and it's not because I think they can hear me, but honestly because it just feels good to do so, sometimes. It's not 'prayer' exactly, more like releasing emotions and sharing your thoughts.

I haven't done anything like that, but it's been suggested to me as a way of dealing with unresolved emotional conflicts.  I'm not sure I'd enjoy it, I think some things are unresolved for a good reason.

[Hector Valdez]

Well, as a ex-christian, I would have interpreted it as, "follow the leader". There's a lot of that in Catholicism.