Accepting Belief

[Stevil]

Let's say I wanted to be a Christian.

Let's say that eternity in heaven sounds like a great future,
Being able to be a good person on earth is desired and hence knowing what is absolute right from absolute wrong is essential.

God is too abstract, an invisible, infinite, eternal entity, is too hard to visualise.
Jesus, was a person (or so the bible says), but also god, he looks similar to me (from the paintings that I have seen), white, good looking  , I could grow a beard if I want to 

So, now that I am sold on the idea, how do I go about believing it?

[Ali]

Well, I have long argued that I don't have a choice about believing - you can't force yourself to believe something that you really think is bollocks.  At least I can't.

[xSilverPhinx]

You would have to find a way to rationalise your perceptions into that belief. Then confirm them via confirmation bias so that they're in a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

I don't know if a long time sceptic of Christianity would be so easily accepting of that belief system though. My guess is the furthest you could go down the rabbit hole is the vague "spiritual" with a belief in "something beyond nature" which if you were scientifically illiterate would be equivalent to thinking "well, you can't see air, so how do you know that air exists? The same for the supernatural and god"

But, the more you know about manipulation tactics and science, the more immune you are to some of the outward silly assertions that religions make. So...I don't know if it's as simple as that.

[Stevil]

You would have to find a way to rationalise your perceptions into that belief. Then confirm them via confirmation bias so that they're in a self-reinforcing feedback loop.

Maybe, need to find "proof" to confirm belief.
Like pray that I will believe and be a good Christian if only I were to win lotto, then "nek minute". Holy Jesus I'm a winner, Thank you lord I now believe.

Or maybe I need desperate times, like a sick and dying child, then a desperate last ditch pray, then "nek minute.." a miracle recovery.

For some, maybe a lucky narrow escape from disaster,

Or a religious experience
http://listosaur.com/miscellaneous/10-rock-stars-who-found-jesus.html

McBrain gave his life to Christ in 1999 in an emotional experience after going to church with his wife, Rebecca. As McBrain told Willow Creek Association News, he prayed to receive Christ, and began to read the Bible. "I had this love affair with Jesus going on in my heart," he said. McBrain still tours with the band, playing the songs that made the band popular. He's also part of the worship music team at his church in Florida. He believes his seemingly incongruous lifestyle is part of the Lord's plan. McBrain has given his testimony in front of heavy metal fans, and seen them commit their life to Jesus and he also frequently talks with fellow Iron Maiden members about his beliefs.

"I can't say to you that I'm trying to convert all these guys in my band to be Christians," McBrain told Canada.com in 2009. "I'm leading them on my route, and if they choose to follow what God's plan is in the Bible, that's up to them. I say to them all, you know, look, in my belief, at the moment, if you turn to your savior Jesus Christ, I'll have eternal life in Heaven with you!"

It's like a contagious disease.

[xSilverPhinx]

I'm a fan of the mentalist Derren Brown, here's a clip where he sort of hypnotised a crowd to believe in god:

Derren Brown -instant conversion

But Stevil, your standards of proof are way too high...why couldn't you just accept that if you found your keys after looking for them one day while running really late, but arrive at work just in time to be a miracle? You certainly don't make it any easier for yourself.

God helmet, pehaps?

[Stevil]

I'm a fan of the mentalist Derren Brown, here's a clip where he sort of hypnotised a crowd to believe in god:

Derren Brown -instant conversion

I'll have to check that out when I get home.

But Stevil, your standards of proof are way too high...why couldn't you just accept that if you found your keys after looking for them one day while running really late, but arrive at work just in time to be a miracle? You certainly don't make it any easier for yourself.

God helmet, pehaps?

It seems one has to have a poor grasp of statistical probability and an ego of this happened to me because I was chosen, I am special.
Does this mean that atheists are less likely to play black jack and roulette?

[Amicale]

Let's say I wanted to be a Christian.

Let's say that eternity in heaven sounds like a great future,
Being able to be a good person on earth is desired and hence knowing what is absolute right from absolute wrong is essential.

God is too abstract, an invisible, infinite, eternal entity, is too hard to visualise.
Jesus, was a person (or so the bible says), but also god, he looks similar to me (from the paintings that I have seen), white, good looking  , I could grow a beard if I want to 

So, now that I am sold on the idea, how do I go about believing it?

I think if you wanted to go about believing in Christianity, you'd have to do more than just convince yourself that things actually happened as the Bible claims they did - (ie, that God created the world, that Jesus is God, that Jesus actually did die because of the sins of humanity, and was raised again, thus defeating the death that humanity deserves if we only trust in him for salvation.) Aside from choosing to accept those things as the Bible presents them, you'd also have to think long and hard about whether or not you admired the character of God as presented in the Bible. Is this God the sort of being you'd want to worship for eternity? Eternity in heaven isn't just the ability to live forever in happiness with your loved ones, after all. It's an eternity spent with that specific God, and not just spent with him, but worshipping him. If that doesn't sound especially palatable to you, then whether or not you think the actual events in the Bible happened may be besides the point. 

[Amicale]

Well, I have long argued that I don't have a choice about believing - you can't force yourself to believe something that you really think is bollocks.  At least I can't.

Right. When I lost my faith in Christianity, it wasn't because I was mad at God, or because I didn't know enough about God. I simply had more questions than answers, and eventually I had more criticisms of the whole idea than I had reasons to believe it. I no longer saw the value in the arguments for belief. I no longer trusted that what the Bible said happened, actually happened. I no longer saw any 'proof' that the beliefs were true, either morally or historically or otherwise. I no longer saw it as something valuable for me to follow -- in short, I rejected it when I realized that I thought it was, as you said Ali, bollocks. And no amount of personal testimonies, religious proofs, theological arguments or pleas to 'just open my heart to Jesus' would be able to make me change my mind and believe again suddenly. Even if I wanted to, I couldn't turn back the clock, ignore everything I've carefully considered, and suddenly believe again. It's not in me to do that.

[Asherah]

If you want to believe you have to do things to encourage your faith! 

1. Go to church every Sunday.
2. Go to a Bible study once a week.
3. Surround yourself with people who believe it is the truth and can encourage you to believe also.
4. Never read anything or listen to anything that would challenge your faith.
5. Read books and listen to audios about why the Bible is true and Christianity is true.
6. Listen to William Lane Craig and other debaters. But, only listen to the debates that they win. If they don't win, it might hurt your faith.
7. If you don't understand something god did in the Bible - ya know, mass murder, shed blood to forgive sins, strange laws - then just say the following Bible verse to yourself over and over and over "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight". Do NOT use your mind! That's just trouble. God's ways are higher than your ways and we cannot possibly understand him.
8. Start praying! Make sure the prayers are ambiguous enough so that you can make-believe that god answered them.

Basically, I could all sum it up in one word- brainwashing.

[Amicale]

If you want to believe you have to do things to encourage your faith! 

1. Go to church every Sunday.
2. Go to a Bible study once a week.
3. Surround yourself with people who believe it is the truth and can encourage you to believe also.
4. Never read anything or listen to anything that would challenge your faith.
5. Read books and listen to audios about why the Bible is true and Christianity is true.
6. Listen to William Lane Craig and other debaters. But, only listen to the debates that they win. If they don't win, it might hurt your faith.
7. If you don't understand something god did in the Bible - ya know, mass murder, shed blood to forgive sins, strange laws - then just say the following Bible verse to yourself over and over and over "Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight". Do NOT use your mind! That's just trouble. God's ways are higher than your ways and we cannot possibly understand him.
8. Start praying! Make sure the prayers are ambiguous enough so that you can make-believe that god answered them.

Basically, I could all sum it up in one word- brainwashing.

Good guide, Asherah! Let's see, where did I go wrong...

1. Did it. Sometimes 2 or 3 times a week.
2. Ditto. Started asking questions at bible study though, that was a no-no.
3. Did it. Started asking these encouraging folks questions, until they started encouraging me less and less and started suggesting I needed more faith.
4. Whoopsie, failed that one.
5. Did this. Books, podcasts, videos, historical treatises, you name it. Started asking a lot of questions, because the stuff asserted in these never explained itself thoroughly enough, at least to my liking. Guess I was too picky. Something about taking statements at face value bugged me. Shoulda ignored those niggling doubts if I wanted to stay Christian. Whoops again!
6. Did it. Started agreeing more and more with the people debating the Christians, even though at the time I WAS a Christian. Tried hard to ignore this, and tried to defend the Christian arguments as I heard them debated. Found myself asking "but what about..." and "hey, isn't the other guy making more sense". Damned critical thought, it never did leave me be. 
7. Recited that verse til I was blue in the face, along with other verses and apologetics from Christian thinkers. Started using my mind regardless. Whoops, dropped that ball too.
8. Prayed like crazy. Started feeling like I was talking to a brick wall. Ignored this, because of COURSE faith isn't about emotion or proof, it's about "the truth ^TM". Finally got to the point where I realized I WAS talking to empty space; in fact, a brick wall would have at least been more sociable and friendly. Triple whoops and blast it all.

And that's my story on how I didn't have enough 'blinders on the eyes' to stick to it. Sorry, Stevil, guess my own life experiences wouldn't help you stay a Christian, let alone talk yourself into becoming one. 

[DeterminedJuliet]

Sorry, I also think you're screwed. Wanting to believe just isn't enough a lot of the time.

[Jimmy]

I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?

[DeterminedJuliet]

I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?

Now, that might work. Or drugs.

[Jimmy]

I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?

Now, that might work. Or drugs.

Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....

[Amicale]

I couldn't believe even if I WANTED to. I'm too far gone now:p Would a labotomy do the trick?

Now, that might work. Or drugs.

Adivan, lots of it, so I can nod my head while drooling....

If someone tries to shove these down your throat, look out: