Should people keep cats as pets?

[Sweetdeath]

Regardless of their impact on the UK's bird population, pet cats should be kept inside, steps should be taken to reduce to feral population (nonlethal whenever possible), and people should be educated on the benefits of keeping their pet cats indoors and getting them spayed and neutered.

I agree with this very much.

Stray cats should definitely be spayed and neutered as well. I think a program like that might exist?

[Stevil]

Well, there are enough of them out there to warrant policy changes in a lot of municipalities.

yes, people are in the power seat, they seem to have the right to decide how other animals should live.

I still don't see why cats getting into fights with other cats is a good thing?

Its part of life for a cat. they are territorial. Is it humans responsibility to stop cats doing that which cats do?

Do you think that makes them happy?

I am not overly concerned with making cats happy.

Do you think they care if they're in plain sight of people, either?

No, but you seem to care. You seem to be worried about neighbors getting annoyed from cats living out their lives outside.

Most of your arguments are based on your guesses as to how cats feel or how you feel, not what is actually best for them in any measurable way.

I don't pretend to know how a cat feels or what is best for the cat. I assume the cat is the one whom knows what is best for itself. If I leave my door open and the cat chooses to go through the door into the outside world, then I assume that the cat figures it is best at that moment to go outside. I am not the one making decisions on the cat's behalf for the greater good of the cat. You are judging me for leaving my door open, for allowing the cat to choose its path in life.

Also, biodiversity refers to  "totality of genes, species, and ecosystems of a region", so while saying that cats are "part" of biodiversity is technically correct but ignores the fact that they reduce biodiversity by killing off a large number of different species.

What species have domesticated cats killed into extinction? How does that compare with other predatory animals including humans?

Which is not "nature's way" because we are the ones that introduced domestic cats into these eco-systems.

We are the ones that domesticated cats, I'll at least agree with that.

Or would you rather un-checked colonies of diseased and starving feral cats everywhere and zero song-birds?

An extreme view of my position. Here is my position just to remind you - "I like domestic cats to be free to roam outside when they choose to do so"

And hey, wait a second, aren't you the same guy who argued for human population control?

No, not me, sorry. I am for choice in life. People can choose to have no children, one child, or a squizillion, it's not my choice, its theirs.

EDIT: Also, I just wanted to say that I'm a bit passionate about this

Teehee, I am enjoying the debate, no worries. I have no hate for you, because you disagree with me, "How dare you, you B---ch!, know your place!"
Just kidding.

[DeterminedJuliet]

I still don't see why cats getting into fights with other cats is a good thing?

Its part of life for a cat. they are territorial. Is it humans responsibility to stop cats doing that which cats do?

Cats are territorial, for the most part, when they aren't neutered. And yes, I think neutering is another area where humans should definitely interfere with the lives of their animals. A neutered cat is unlikely to pick fights with other cats, but still might be attacked by an aggressive tom if he/she goes outside.

Do you think that makes them happy?

I am not overly concerned with making cats happy.

You seem to be.

Do you think they care if they're in plain sight of people, either?

No, but you seem to care. You seem to be worried about neighbors getting annoyed from cats living out their lives outside.

I listed the impact that cats have on the community as a "con" factor that everyone should consider. You listed "cats being seen in plain view of people" as a "pro", so I'm just wondering why. If you don't care, why list it? 

Most of your arguments are based on your guesses as to how cats feel or how you feel, not what is actually best for them in any measurable way.

I don't pretend to know how a cat feels or what is best for the cat. I assume the cat is the one whom knows what is best for itself. If I leave my door open and the cat chooses to go through the door into the outside world, then I assume that the cat figures it is best at that moment to go outside. I am not the one making decisions on the cat's behalf for the greater good of the cat. You are judging me for leaving my door open, for allowing the cat to choose its path in life.

If you had a dog, would you do the same thing? I'm sure there are a lot of dogs that would love to run wild and, arguably, some of them would probably cause less trouble than some cats. Does this principle applies to every living thing, or just cats for some reason? 

Also, biodiversity refers to  "totality of genes, species, and ecosystems of a region", so while saying that cats are "part" of biodiversity is technically correct but ignores the fact that they reduce biodiversity by killing off a large number of different species.

What species have domesticated cats killed into extinction? How does that compare with other predatory animals including humans?

Welll, this thread was started because Tank posted an article that possibly connects the destruction of song-birds with a very large cat population. And I know, in Newfoundland, there's a rare species of Pine Martin (which only live in one place in the world - the western coast of Newfoundland) who are increasingly threatened because they ONLY eat meadow vole (another threatened species). Part of the problem is that other predators, including cats, kill all kinds of rodents indiscriminately, edging out the Pine Martin's diet.

But no, I don't have hard "proof" at my finger tips. Though it would make sense that if cats are outside and killing things, they're probably killing all kinds of birds/rodents, not just the ones that we'd like them to kill. Also lots of domestic cats don't kill because they need to eat; they kill because they have the instincts to do so. If you have an outdoor cat, I assume you've gotten some of their "presents", which are ultimately wasted (um... unless you eat them).

Or would you rather un-checked colonies of diseased and starving feral cats everywhere and zero song-birds?

An extreme view of my position. Here is my position just to remind you - "I like domestic cats to be free to roam outside when they choose to do so"

I guess it depends on whether you feel they should be neutered/spayed when they roam free. I might have jumped the gun a bit.

And hey, wait a second, aren't you the same guy who argued for human population control?

No, not me, sorry. I am for choice in life. People can choose to have no children, one child, or a squizillion, it's not my choice, its theirs.

Sorry, for some reason I really thought you had chimed in on that side of the debate. My apologies

EDIT: Also, I just wanted to say that I'm a bit passionate about this

Teehee, I am enjoying the debate, no worries. I have no hate for you, because you disagree with me, "How dare you, you B---ch!, know your place!"
Just kidding.

Haha, Rawrr!

[DeterminedJuliet]

Regardless of their impact on the UK's bird population, pet cats should be kept inside, steps should be taken to reduce to feral population (nonlethal whenever possible), and people should be educated on the benefits of keeping their pet cats indoors and getting them spayed and neutered.

I agree with this very much.

Stray cats should definitely be spayed and neutered as well. I think a program like that might exist?

There are various "catch-and-release" programs all over the place. One of the vets I used to work for operated a place called "kitty town" where she tended to feral cats. She spent a lot of weekends catching and neutering the males. I also used to volunteer in an annual "free cat neuter day" at my old hospital for low income people who otherwise couldn't afford to get their cats neutered.

It's just one of those things that is really hard to keep up on, unfortunately. Cats reproduce very quickly and reach sexual maturity very quickly, so their numbers do get out of hand in a lot of places despite the efforts of programs like this. There are people who are trying to help, though.  

[Buddy]

Regardless of their impact on the UK's bird population, pet cats should be kept inside, steps should be taken to reduce to feral population (nonlethal whenever possible), and people should be educated on the benefits of keeping their pet cats indoors and getting them spayed and neutered.

I agree with this very much.

Stray cats should definitely be spayed and neutered as well. I think a program like that might exist?

There are various "catch-and-release" programs all over the place. One of the vets I used to work for operated a place called "kitty town" where she tended to feral cats. She spent a lot of weekends catching and neutering the males. I also used to volunteer in an annual "free cat neuter day" at my old hospital for low income people who otherwise couldn't afford to get their cats neutered.

It's just one of those things that is really hard to keep up on, unfortunately. Cats reproduce very quickly and reach sexual maturity very quickly, so their numbers do get out of hand in a lot of places despite the efforts of programs like this. There are people who are trying to help, though.  

We have one that comes around annually to our Humane society called the Neuter Scooter. My vet also has discounted rates for feral cats.

[Sweetdeath]

Regardless of their impact on the UK's bird population, pet cats should be kept inside, steps should be taken to reduce to feral population (nonlethal whenever possible), and people should be educated on the benefits of keeping their pet cats indoors and getting them spayed and neutered.

I agree with this very much.

Stray cats should definitely be spayed and neutered as well. I think a program like that might exist?

There are various "catch-and-release" programs all over the place. One of the vets I used to work for operated a place called "kitty town" where she tended to feral cats. She spent a lot of weekends catching and neutering the males. I also used to volunteer in an annual "free cat neuter day" at my old hospital for low income people who otherwise couldn't afford to get their cats neutered.

It's just one of those things that is really hard to keep up on, unfortunately. Cats reproduce very quickly and reach sexual maturity very quickly, so their numbers do get out of hand in a lot of places despite the efforts of programs like this. There are people who are trying to help, though.  

We have one that comes around annually to our Humane society called the Neuter Scooter. My vet also has discounted rates for feral cats.

I'm so glad programs like these exist.

[Stevil]

I am not overly concerned with making cats happy.

You seem to be.

No, not really. I don't think the value of life is simply to be happy. Otherwise we ought to drug ourselves up to the hilt and be HAPPY.

I listed the impact that cats have on the community as a "con" factor that everyone should consider. You listed "cats being seen in plain view of people" as a "pro", so I'm just wondering why. If you don't care, why list it?

I responded just to show that I am ambivalent to the concern people have of seeing cats roam free.  Should we enforce women to wear bed sheets because men may have impure thoughts at the sight of these "sexy" women?

If you had a dog, would you do the same thing? I'm sure there are a lot of dogs that would love to run wild and, arguably, some of them would probably cause less trouble than some cats. Does this principle applies to every living thing, or just cats for some reason?

I wouldn't choose to own a dog unless I had a farm or a rather large lifestyle block.

I guess it depends on whether you feel they should be neutered/spayed when they roam free. I might have jumped the gun a bit.

Yes, I think it is responsible to get your cat pets neutered.

[Whitney]

At the weekend I was watching a TV programme and the following statistic got quoted.
"There are 11 million domestic cats in the UK and they kill 60 million songbirds each year."

Assuming that the statistic is correct should humans keep cats as pets? They are obviously having a massive impact on wildlife. But on the upside how any mice and rats do they dispose of?

My cats stay inside so they don't get a chance to kill anything that we wouldn't want them to kill...basically they only kill bugs.

The dog, on the other hand, sometimes tries to eat geckos she finds outside so we have to discourage her...geckos are cute and they eat bugs.

[The Magic Pudding]

I responded just to show that I am ambivalent to the concern people have of seeing cats roam free.  Should we enforce women to wear bed sheets because men may have impure thoughts at the sight of these "sexy" women?

If the woman is homicidal perhaps a straight jacket would be more appropriate.  I don't see how the depredations of cats are analogous to sexy women in any useful way.  Ambivalence from people who live where the wildlife evolved with cat predation is one thing, from Australians I find it despicable.  Unique island ecosystems forever changed because the interlopers like things to look like home.  

Yes these are my values and I'm entitled to them and others are entitled to theirs, and apparently they feel their freedom extends to their free roaming pet predators.  It's worse than that though, you kill a native animal and you're in trouble, your cat does it, oh well it's only natural.

The case of New Zealand is more extreme than Australia, islands where birds filled niches mammals did elsewhere.  I know not all Kiwis (there's an ironic term for you) are so apathetic and they try to protect what's left.

7 BILLION PEOPLE ON EARTH
Fewer than 150 KAKAPO

[Stevil]

The case of New Zealand is more extreme than Australia, islands where birds filled niches mammals did elsewhere.  I know not all Kiwis (there's an ironic term for you) are so apathetic and they try to protect what's left.

7 BILLION PEOPLE ON EARTH
Fewer than 150 KAKAPO

Yes, us humans have certainly stuffed up ecologies, introducing rabbits, stoats, weasels, possums, cats, dogs, gorse etc...

[Sweetdeath]

The case of New Zealand is more extreme than Australia, islands where birds filled niches mammals did elsewhere.  I know not all Kiwis (there's an ironic term for you) are so apathetic and they try to protect what's left.

7 BILLION PEOPLE ON EARTH
Fewer than 150 KAKAPO

Yes, us humans have certainly stuffed up ecologies, introducing rabbits, stoats, weasels, possums, cats, dogs, gorse etc...

I'm all for protectinv ecosystems. Or at least not stomping on them. There is simply no reason for so many people to exist on a single planet. I wish people were smarter about reproducing.