pedophilia as a disability?

[AnimatedDirt]

Furor in Greece over pedophilia as a disability

How odd is this?  Am I way off thinking this is crazy?  If so, help me understand.

[Crow]

There is evidence that pedophilia may be caused during the development of the brain. Due to external or chemical stimulus it interrupts the usual development that makes people want to be protective of children for some reason and gets mixed up with the area of the brain that is related to sexual attraction. I cant remember the article in full but I saw it on the BBC website a while back but I don't want to google it.

However I don't agree with it being a disability.

[Whitney]

I don't think criminal mental disabilities (assuming it is medically defined as a mental disability) should be on a list of things that allow you to sit on your butt at home and receive compensation.  If they are not able to control themselves well enough to hold a job then they are a danger to society and need to be locked up (which also requires paying for them but at least they wouldn't be able to harm anyone).

[yepimonfire]

There is evidence that pedophilia may be caused during the development of the brain. Due to external or chemical stimulus it interrupts the usual development that makes people want to be protective of children for some reason and gets mixed up with the area of the brain that is related to sexual attraction. I cant remember the article in full but I saw it on the BBC website a while back but I don't want to google it.

However I don't agree with it being a disability.

your brain can change and re-wire itself with behavior modification and counseling. people with mental disabilities need counseling and help. not locked up, and certainly not a govt. check (wtf?). compulsive gambling was also mentioned in the article as a "disability". to some extent, yes, it is a disability, but what it is not is a disability like fibromyalgia, diabetes, etc. compulsive gambling is a disease rooted in the addiction centers of the brain, and just like every other addiction it must be treated like one. abstinence and retraining of thought patterns and behaviors.

i think a large percentage of people who are locked up need locked up into a mental hospital, and at least attempted to be rehabilitated. of course this does not apply to everyone.

[The Magic Pudding]

I'd like the offenders punished, offer them a death pill or whatever.
There are practical concerns, the cost of jail, people sent to jail are usually released eventually.
There is the problem that the crime creates future offenders.
Whatever works best and is most affordable, a benefit with the condition of taking meds/treatment might be an option.

I've linked to this before, it's an interesting look at some of the issues involved. 

[Sweetdeath]

Not far from now,EVERYTHING will be a disability (i still find it insane that obesity is considered so.) We'll all be collecting checks from the gov.  Hmmm, why is our economy so unstable?


Anyways, back on topic:  I definitely would NOT classify it as a disability. That's absurd.

[Too Few Lions]

I wouldn't go as far as classifying it as a disability, although I do suspect that a lot of paedophiles can't help being attracted to children. Like Crow, I imagine it's just the way their brain's wired, and so long as they don't act on those impulses, they deserve more sympathy and help than they generally get from society. But they definitely shouldn't be getting any paycheques from the state, particularly when that state is utterly bankrupt due to overspending.

As an aside, it's slightly amusing that this story is about Greece as the Greeks do have form on this. Pederasty was an important part of classical Greek life.

[Crow]

i think a large percentage of people who are locked up need locked up into a mental hospital, and at least attempted to be rehabilitated. of course this does not apply to everyone.

Have you ever visited a mental hospital? I have with a friend who was visiting his mum and we were both horrified at what we saw. Place a group of mentally unstable people together, then give them copious drugs which numb them so they don't have a clue what is going on. More than half seemed like they were getting worse (it was certainly the case for my friends mum) but there were a few that looked like they were loving it and they seemed to be the ones making it worse for the others. The main problem was the people there had such a wide variety of problems with some patients seeming to be detrimental to the development of others. Its the last place I would send anybody and don't even want to imagine what it would be like in a hospital for the criminally insane. I think rehabilitation should be the primary concern rather than locking them up, and done in the real world so they can actually adjust to society rather than a prison system.

[Sweetdeath]

I wouldn't go as far as classifying it as a disability, although I do suspect that a lot of paedophiles can't help being attracted to children. Like Crow, I imagine it's just the way their brain's wired, and so long as they don't act on those impulses, they deserve more sympathy and help than they generally get from society. But they definitely shouldn't be getting any paycheques from the state, particularly when that state is utterly bankrupt due to overspending.

As an aside, it's slightly amusing that this story is about Greece as the Greeks do have form on this. Pederasty was an important part of classical Greek life.

Well, in ancient greece it was more like a 40 something with a 15 year old. I think pedophilia is like 12 or under. Not to mention, children matured faster in that time.

I think this 17 yr old friend of mine is super cute. I din't feel weird about liking someone if they are at least 16/17. Some people are just really awesome.

[McQ]

There is evidence that pedophilia may be caused during the development of the brain. Due to external or chemical stimulus it interrupts the usual development that makes people want to be protective of children for some reason and gets mixed up with the area of the brain that is related to sexual attraction. I cant remember the article in full but I saw it on the BBC website a while back but I don't want to google it.

However I don't agree with it being a disability.

Can you post a link to the peer reviewed studies that support this?
You may not want to post a link, but I also don't want to simply take your word for it.

Scientific claims should be backed up with evidence.

[Stevil]

Why does having the attraction give them an excuse for doing things to children against the child's consent?

I am attracted to women but I have never raped a woman or done anything sexual to them against their consent.

[Ali]

Why does having the attraction give them an excuse for doing things to children against the child's consent?

I am attracted to women but I have never raped a woman or done anything sexual to them against their consent.

For the win.

[Tank]

Why does having the attraction give them an excuse for doing things to children against the child's consent?

I am attracted to women but I have never raped a woman or done anything sexual to them against their consent.

Did anybody suggest pedophilia excuses child abuse? Heterosexuality, homosexuality and pedophilia all occur in humans to varying degrees. The key difference for pedophilia is that it cannot ever be considered consensual as one partner by definition is below the age of consent (except in some Islamic countries where as long as the couple are married the ages of the couple are irrelevant).

demonizing paedophiles increases child abuse. Why? Because how can a pedophile seek help? He, and very rarely she, can't. They have nowhere to go to seek help. The result is they have to cope with their urges all on their own. We have no idea what proportion of paedophiles go on to be child molesters/rapists. But we do know some do. Of those that do become molesters/rapists how many would not have done this if free private care was available? 10%, 20% we don't know. Whatever that percentage is they are preventable molestation/rapes.

Society should be very considerate of paedophiles who are prepared to volenteer for supervision/treatment and continue to come down very hard on those that act on their impulses. This is the only route that can reduce molestation/rape in an intelligent rational manner. A stick only apprach is not IMO the most productive in these cases.

[Ali]

Why does having the attraction give them an excuse for doing things to children against the child's consent?

I am attracted to women but I have never raped a woman or done anything sexual to them against their consent.

Did anybody suggest pedophilia excuses child abuse? Heterosexuality, homosexuality and pedophilia all occur in humans to varying degrees. The key difference for pedophilia is that it cannot ever be considered consensual as one partner by definition is below the age of consent (except in some Islamic countries where as long as the couple are married the ages of the couple are irrelevant).

demonizing paedophiles increases child abuse. Why? Because how can a pedophile seek help? He, and very rarely she, can't. They have nowhere to go to seek help. The result is they have to cope with their urges all on their own. We have no idea what proportion of paedophiles go on to be child molesters/rapists. But we do know some do. Of those that do become molesters/rapists how many would not have done this if free private care was available? 10%, 20% we don't know. Whatever that percentage is they are preventable molestation/rapes.

Society should be very considerate of paedophiles who are prepared to volenteer for supervision/treatment and continue to come down very hard on those that act on their impulses. This is the only route that can reduce molestation/rape in an intelligent rational manner. A stick only apprach is not IMO the most productive in these cases.

I get what you're saying and I think it's a good point.  However, I've always heard that the recidivism rates of convicted child molesters are high.  I googled, and found a lot of studies that I would have to pay to read, but in the abstract of one I found this:

Examined the long-term recidivism rates of 197 child molesters released from prison between 1958 and 1974. Overall, 42% of the total sample were reconvicted for sexual crimes, violent crimes, or both, with 10% of the total sample reconvicted 10–31 yrs after being released. Incest offenders were reconvicted at a slower rate than were offenders who selected only boys, with offenders against girls showing a rate intermediate between these 2 groups. Other factors associated with increased recidivism were (1) never being married and (2) previous sexual offenses. None of the mental health and personality tests used in this study (e.g., the Eysenck Personality Inventory and the MMPI) was significantly associated with recidivism. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2010 APA, all rights reserved)

http://psycnet.apa.org/journals/ccp/61/4/646/

On the one hand, presumably they had some sort of treatment and monitoring, and still had a recidivism rate of 42%.  On the other hand, they were released from prison 40+ years ago, so one hopes that treatments have advanced since then and may be more effective.  I'll go see if I can find more recent data on the recidivism rates of child molesters.

ETA: Found another interesting blurb:

Although recidivism among dangerous sexual offenders is generally reported to be low, clinical experience suggests otherwise. In order to assess the actual recidivism rate of offenders who commit sexual as saults, we administered to a sample of eighty-three convicted rapists and fifty-four convicted child molesters an anonymous questionnaire in which they were asked a series of questions pertaining to their his tory of sexual offenses. The results indicate that the majority of the offenders had been convicted more than once for a sexual assault. Furthermore, on average, they admitted to having committed two to five times as many sex crimes for which they were not apprehended. This study suggests that dangerous sex offenders usually commit their first sexual assault during adolescence, and that they persist in this criminal behavior, but that the offense has low visibility. For this reason recidivism, as judged by rearrests, is not a dependable measure of rehabilitation of the sexual offender.

http://cad.sagepub.com/content/28/3/450.short

So I guess maybe we can't use recidivism rates as a measure of rehabilitation.

But my point is that I don't necessarily know that treatment and monitoring actually makes a big difference in these guys.  I guess it can't hurt, but it may not help.

[Tank]

I agree that recidivism is an issue.

However supposing the 58% that didn't go on to reoffend had been given help before they offfended in the first place. They may have never committed the crime. Thus all their victims would never have become a victim at all. As you say giving paedophilles the opportunity to seek help before they have offended may have negligable impact. But to my knowledge it's never been tried. As such a child has to have been molested/raped before the molester/rapist can be taken off the streets. I'd personally like to see a system that does what it can to prevent the molestation/rape before it happened.