Lot and his incestuous daughters - a cheap political gibe

[Too Few Lions]

I was reading about the story of Lot and his daughters yesterday, and how the story was just a cheap political gibe by the Judahite king / priesthood against neighbouring kingdoms in the 7th century BCE. Hardly the divine word of any deity!

The story appears in Genesis 19.31-38, where Lot's two daughters get him drunk so they can have sex with him. The key to the story is the names of Lot's two children by his daughters, Genesis tells us that, 'So both of Lot's daughters became pregnant by their father. The older daughter had a son, and she named him Moab; he is the father of the Moabites of today. The younger daughter also had a son, and she named him Ben-Ammi; he is the father of the Ammonites of today.' (Gen 19.36-38).

The Kingdoms of Moab and Ammon were two of the neighbouring states to Israel and Judah, and they sometimes fought each other. The story was just a way of insulting the neighbours, by suggesting that they were descended from an incestuous relationship.



The same basic thing is also at the root of the myth of Esau and Jacob. We're told in Genesis that Esau was also called Edom (ie father of the Edomites) and Jacob is also called Israel (ie father of the Israelites), and Israel takes Edom's birthright and blessing.

[Gawen]

The story indicates a family feud, sort of. Lot was Abraham's nephew and the story is a rather unflattering and disrespectful attitude in ascribing the Moabites and Ammonites their origin. This accords well with the account given in later parts of the Bible, and supported by surviving Moabite inscriptions, which indicates that Moabites and Ammonites were closely related to the Hebrews in culture and language, but nevertheless were on many occasions involved in fighting with them. Midrash has more on Lot.

The story is a prelude to Deut 23 and the religious prohibitions therein:
1: He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the assembly of Jehovah.

2: A bastard shall not enter into the assembly of Jehovah; even to the tenth generation shall none of his enter into the assembly of Jehovah.

3: An Ammonite or a Moabite shall not enter into the assembly of Jehovah; even to the tenth generation shall none belonging to them enter into the assembly of Jehovah for ever:

4: because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt, and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor from Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee.

Veres 2-4 are specifically for the Ammonites and Moabites simply because they were illegitimate and they didn't help, but actually cursed the Hebrews when they came out of Egypt.
It is widely believed the incest part of the story is religious propaganda used to inflame the Hebrews against their alleged "cousins" because they didn't help the Hebrews.

[Tank]

Most interesting.

[Too Few Lions]

The Mesha Stele is quite interesting too. It's an inscription by the 9th Century king Mesha of Moab on how he fought the Israelites and defeated them around 840 BCE. Mesha states how he took the temple vessels of Yahweh and gave them to the god Kemosh, and it's the earliest known mention of Yahweh in the Semitic language.

[Sweetdeath]

Oooh, I learned something new. Thanks TFL.

[Dobermonster]

Very interesting. I always wondered why that passage was in there.