near death experiences

[Light]

First off, I'm assuming if you're an atheist, you don't believe in an afterlife.  Maybe you do, but if not, I'm curious to your take on near-death experiences.  There's a good site with many stories, even a science/skeptic section,  near-death.com

There's one in particular I find interesting where the person left their body and even described doctors comments, and surgical instruments, after she was pronounced brain dead:

http://near-death.com/experiences/evidence01.html

If your only explanation for these is just 'random brain activity' or something before a person dies,  then I ask,  why do these people have such lucid experiences, unlike a hazy dream, able to recall much of them?  Why would evolution create such a complex experience at death, why not just simply knocking the person out with some endogenous pain killers?  Seems like a pretty unnecessary way for the brain to just 'shut down'.....

[Asmodean]

If your only explanation for these is just 'random brain activity'

That would be a rather lazy and un-professional explanation, but then this is not a neurology forum.

To the best of my knowledge, there is a thread here somehwere about NDEs... Was a nice explanation post or two in it as well, or so I seem to recall.

why do these people have such lucid experiences

Why do the psycho nut's monsters seem so real? I don't know. If I want an explanation though, I'll try asking a psychiatrist. There is no need to invoke a spirit or a soul or some creepy form of continuation of life beyond life though.

Why would evolution create

Why would nuclear physics create an a-bomb? It wouldn't, couldn't and didn't. Evolution is a process of transformation of something - a specie of fish, for instance - into something else, like amphibians, over time. (Very simplified, but the relevant word here is "process". Something changes into something else over time through the process of evolution. The process itself does not create.)

This may seem like nitpickery, and it is, but some nits just need to be picked. A better way of putting it would be "Why have we evolved *insert something or other* in stead of *Something else*"

such a complex experience at death, why not just simply knocking the person out with some endogenous pain killers?  Seems like a pretty unnecessary way for the brain to just 'shut down'.....

Depends on the manner of death. NDAs are not as common as some NDA nuts would have you think. In some cases of traumatic death, for instance, you go into a state of shock and then you die. In other cases, you fall asleep and never wake up.

In any case, death is a process with a beginning, an end and everything inbetween. A lot can happen within the process of dying, including some really cool hallucinations, or so I hear.

[Crow]

I have no idea why people have near death experiences, however it totally opposed to my own experience (a rope swing accident) and also that of my dad when he was clinically dead due to a heart attack. In most cases people try to escape death, it may be possible that when faced with death the brain becomes highly active in an attempt to escape death that it engages the frontal lobes in some cases causing certain types of visions, anybody that has experienced hallucinogenics or is a sufferer of frontal lobe epilepsy will tell you how lucid visions can be as for why its possible for more than a hazy dream.

It also depends what definition of dead is used as there are different types, clinically dead; this is when blood circulation and breathing has stopped but the brain is still active and still recoverable, brain dead; this is when there is no brain activity and irreversible, and legal death; this always coincides with brain death but also covers areas where the patient is considered to be dead by the law of that Country or State depending where you live.

[Whitney]

I don't trust nde accounts posted in pro after life sites

[Asmodean]

I don't trust nde accounts posted in pro after life sites

I don't trust any of them.

There are usually far too many variables there even for my highly unprofessional mind. For instance, did the person who allegedly experienced NDE wake up in the very room where it occured, or regain consciousness at any time? Did the doctor check for pupil dialation and was thus potentially seen - even if briefly and unclearly - by the patient? Did people in the room talk? Was there any at all brain activity going on? Was it even being measured? Is there a chance of the patient filling in them memory blanks, so to speak, with sensory experiences obtained after the alleged NDE?

Bleh! That ought to be enough for now.

[Whitney]

I don't trust nde accounts posted in pro after life sites

I don't trust any of them.

me neither...I'm not even aware of any properly documented cases that were not in some way explained naturally

[Asmodean]

I'm not even aware of any properly documented cases that were not in some way explained naturally

Yes, that's about where my long string of potentially buzzkill-variables comes in 

[Squid]

I don't trust nde accounts posted in pro after life sites

Elizabeth Loftus would agree...

[The Magic Pudding]

I don't think it's necessarily related, other than things aren't always what they seem but the explanation of how time seems to slow when a person is in an extreme situation is interesting.

Instead, such time warping seems to be a trick played by one's memory. When a person is scared, a brain area called the amygdala becomes more active, laying down an extra set of memories that go along with those normally taken care of by other parts of the brain.

"In this way, frightening events are associated with richer and denser memories," Eagleman explained. "And the more memory you have of an event, the longer you believe it took."

Eagleman added this illusion "is related to the phenomenon that time seems to speed up as you grow older. When you're a child, you lay down rich memories for all your experiences; when you're older, you've seen it all before and lay down fewer memories. Therefore, when a child looks back at the end of a summer, it seems to have lasted forever; adults think it zoomed by."

[Light]

nm, i misread. 

[Whitney]

Not trusting because it's a pro-life site? huh?  What would that have to do with anything?  I didn't even see anything like that mentioned there.

I wouldn't trust a pro-life site to be unbiased either....

You might want to re-read what I wrote 

[Light]

heh, yeah, misread, but anyway, you know there's a lot of external links on that site if you don't trust it,  links to site of some of the people who experienced the NDE, also to people who have studied them,  just saying,  could be some interesting reading for some......

[Asmodean]

Reading someone's acount of his or her NDE is no more interesting to me than reading a deliriant user's account of his or her hallucinations. Some people do find it fascinating. I just find it... Boring.

[Light]

A hallucination? Hmm, sounds like most people describe them as an awareness more clear than normal awareness, never heard much about hallucinations.

By the way, what is with the frowning avatar anyway, I thought this was supposed to be the 'happy atheist forum'.

[Asmodean]

A hallucination? Hmm, sounds like most people describe them as an awareness more clear than normal awareness,

This is an appropriate place for the "I rest my case" -line, but I have not yet grown bored of this.

never heard much about hallucinations.

Pop a few pills of the right sort, and you might just experience those first hand. Hallucinations, they can seem very real to the person experiencing them while being utter bullshit to everyone else.

By the way, what is with the frowning avatar anyway, I thought this was supposed to be the 'happy atheist forum'.

No-where in the rules does it say that this forum may only be joined by happy atheists. For that reason, even the most trollish of jesus camp survivors get a chance here.

That said, my avatar does not necessarilly reflect my general disposition towards pretty much anyone except mindless god worshippers and/or the willingly dumb.

That said, the opposites of happy are sad, depressed and the like. Grumpiness and happiness are not necessarilly incompatible.