Re: I am A Christian

[MadBomr101]

Here, have a puppy.

I don't like the look in that puppy's eyes, I think he's atheist.  Probably best we kill him just to be sure.

[Buddy]

Here, have a puppy.

I don't like the look in that puppy's eyes, I think he's atheist.  Probably best we kill him just to be sure.

I agree, put that thing out of its misery 

[Sandra Craft]

Here, have a puppy.

I don't like the look in that puppy's eyes, I think he's atheist.  Probably best we kill him just to be sure.

I agree, put that thing out of its misery 

Oh now, leave that poor pup alone -- I'm sure it'll grow out of whatever is wrong with its eyes.

[The Magic Pudding]

I'm stealing the dog.

[Buddy]

It reminds me of a buggy-eyed chihuahua 

[xSilverPhinx]

Add a mustache to it, make it smaller and it reminds me of...oh nevermind

[Egor]

Well you were not banned as Edward the Theist so there is no need to ban you as Egor for that. However the rules have not changed here in any significant way since you were last here so why all the whining about them when you'd been here before? I'll close Edward The Theist account and you can continue as Egor.

Sorry about that. I've been in a lot of groups and I get them confused. Anyway, I'm glad to be back; thanks for having me here.

And I would like to make something clear to all--I don't hate atheists as people. I hate atheism. Probably in the same way you hate Christianity, but not individual Christians.

As for my beliefs, I'm not a traditional Christian, neither Protestant nor Catholic. Here's some of the more unusual ones that tend to separate me:

I don't believe the entire Bible is the inerrant Word of God. I believe the New Testament Gospels, Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, are the only works that are the inerrant Word of God. I consider the other books of the King James Bible to be commentary on the Gospels or in the case of the Old Testament, a historical reference for the Gospels.

That means, I'm not going to argue or defend Leviticus or Genesis.

I believe in evolution and natural selection, but I believe it is a system of order that actually proves the existence of God.

I believe that only those who reject Christ go to hell, not people who don't know about Jesus Christ or grow up in a different culture. For those people, I don't know what God's plan is, because Jesus doesn't talk about it.

I am not anti-gay, because Jesus doesn't talk about it.

I am not right wing or left wing. I'm pretty radical about certain ideas from both camps, because Jesus was.

I consider Jesus Christ to be the revelation of God to mankind. There may be other revelations, like Hercules or Vishnu, but I believe Jesus Christ is the only way to be saved.

I believe all of us are imperfect and deserve hell. By faith in Jesus Christ, we are saved from hell by grace. And it makes this life a lot better, too.

I believe ultimately faith is a greater mental state than logic.

My blog is pretty clear on my feelings towards atheism. I'm not here to convert anyone. I'm not even sure if that's possible. That's up to God.

I would like to stay in this forum for as long as possible. I don't think that's going to be very long, not because I flame or curse or insult, but because unlike other Christians, I fight and I don't back down, and I'm not looking for peace, and when it comes to atheism the ideas of tolerance and indulgence as love don't work. In fact they are a form of hate in that they allow a person to stay in a state that separates them from God and ensures for them hell as an afterlife.

So, that's where I'm coming from. But don't let it spoil the fun. 

[The Magic Pudding]

and when it comes to atheism the ideas of tolerance and indulgence as love don't work. In fact they are a form of hate in that they allow a person to stay in a state that separates them from God and ensures for them hell as an afterlife.

So, that's where I'm coming from. But don't let it spoil the fun. 

Oh ye, some games are always popular, Monopoly, Snakes and Ladders, You Think I'm Going to Hell Ha Ha, I'm sure someone will play for a while.

[Buddy]

Well, that was quite the read, but I think I get what you're saying. It is nice to know that you don't hate atheists, because I think some of us misunderstood. Or maybe that was just me    I would answer and ask some of your questions, but I think that it is best to wait until you graduate to the more serious part of the forum. You said that you wanted to "study us", maybe spend a bit of time just chatting with the other people to get to know them. I believe it has been said before, but we do have a few theists here. You could get to know them.

Personally, I want to get to know you. Do you have any interesting hobbies? I am an avid horseback rider. What is your favorite food? Mine definetly has to be chicken Alfredo.

[Will]

And I would like to make something clear to all--I don't hate atheists as people. I hate atheism. Probably in the same way you hate Christianity, but not individual Christians.

Actually, I think you'll find that, despite our complaining and even the occasional making fun, most of us don't hate Christianity, or Islam or Judaism or Hinduism or Wicca or whathaveyou, we simply are skeptical of their claims.

If I told you that I was able to fly without any mechanical assistance, would you hate me for making this claim, or simply disbelieve me short of extraordinary evidence? I suspect it would be the latter, because hate takes a lot to inspire.

Do you know what I hate? Almost nothing. I'm thinking very hard about things that frustrate me or make me angry or that I feel otherwise negatively towards, and all I can come up with is things like the abuse of children, murder and war, and sexual assault. Other than those things, nothing I can think of elicits hatred. And why should it? Hatred takes such energy, and it's often so strong it can override reason and responsibility. I wouldn't want to feel like that.

And so I'm left wondering why you might hate atheism. Has atheism ever done anything terrible to you? Is atheism causing needless suffering? Is it victimizing the innocent? Or is it offending your sensibilities so terribly in some other way?

[MadBomr101]

And I would like to make something clear to all--I don't hate atheists as people. I hate atheism. Probably in the same way you hate Christianity, but not individual Christians.

Atheism isn't the hatred of Xianity or any other religion, it's the rejection of Xianity or any other religion.  Atheists don't believe in religion or their mystical gods.  The fact that you hate atheism is your issue.

[Sweetdeath]

Hating atheism makes no sense. And I don't even think that is a valid word, because it doesn't mean ANYTHING. So you hate my disbelief in religion? Why?
Am I bothering you?
Do you know me?
If you ask me, you are wasting your time and hatred. I don't hate religion or religious people. I dislike narrow minded people, who find it easier to not bother using their brains to solve real world problems, or don't see how much harm religion has done.

[Egor]

I am working on a book about atheism...

This doesn't sound like a good idea.

From what I've read here as Egor's past starts to trickle out little by little, it's sounding to me like he's a very enthusiastic Xian with a fairly well established bias against atheists.  This suggests little or no real insight into atheism or atheists as people so writing a book on the subject would be like me writing a book on what its like to be an NFL quarterback and doing so from an irrational position of hating NFL quarterbacks to begin with.

I know what an NFL quarterback is and what he does and I can look up his career stats but I have no idea what it's like to actually be an NFL quarterback but, man, they suck and I want the world to know it!

I'd stick with the Xian sci-fi

You know, you have really got me thinking. I wrote and published a novel; it was a ghost story, and some people really liked it. I've always believed fiction was a better way of telling the truth than non-fiction. And even though I have this outline of this book about fighting atheism, I just don't get good vibes from it. It's like I'm stuck in this mindset telling me to do it, but like God is  telling me not to do it, but because I'm stuck in the mindset, it's hard for me to discern the will of God. I have no idea why I'm telling this to an atheist, but it's late and I suppose I'm bored at work.

Nonetheless, it was this post that got me really thinking about it. I even think I have a good idea for a novel. I just don't know. And then I think about it, I already have a blog, why write a non-fiction book? To sell? To who?  I even have a novel review site that I maintain. I like literature.

Now I'm babbling. 

[Sweetdeath]

Why exactly do you as a person want to a book about atheists? o_o
Atheisms doesn't really exist. Being a atheist just means you don't believe in a religion or a god(s).   But other than that, atheists can be nice, caring, cruel, fat, skinny. We're all just human beings in the end.

[Tank]

Egor/Edward 

Have you ever read any of the Revelation Space series by Alistair Rynolds? I suspect you would find them interesting as there is always a strong theistic element in them. Have you read the Rama series by Arthur C Clark, in particular Rama II? One of the main characters is a Catholic who has some interesting moral dilemmas to cope with and it brings up Pascals Wager towards the end.

I agree with story telling as a great way of illustrating ideas. Terry Pratchett is very good at that sort of moral illustration in the Discworld series and of course the Bible stories do much the same thing. Humans tend to lean by experience (do you have any kids?) but one can't simply go out and murder somebody to show it's bad, but a story can place murder in its context and allow the reader to appreciate why it is wrong.

I intended to write a science fiction novel based on the limitations of the speed of light so I went out and got a serious cosmology course book and studied it. It took six months to work through it, I did all the relevent maths examples etc. Then I read my first Alistair Rynolds novel and realised he'd already written the book I wanted to right!!!

Egor, you can stay here as long as you like provided you don't piss everybody off. You can believe what you like, I don't care really, I just find it really annoying when somebody tries to force their beliefs on me. Nothing you say is going to change my mind. I've been a salesman and a product manager for a collective 12 years so I've used all the tricks of, and been subjected to, all the tricks of sales people. If you do want to get my attention and interest then you'll have to explain in detail not only what you believe but why you believe it. And if you can't make a case that will stand on its own without you there as part of it then I'm not interested. And I don't mean that in a nasty way. I've been lied to so often by sales people who I don't trust anybody and somebody trying to sell an idea even less. So you're trying to teach a pig to sing (ultimately futile and it annoys the pig) when it comes to telling my what you believe is true, unless you can support your beliefs with objective evidence, and so far no theist of any type has been able to do that I.E. creat a coherent case for the existence of God that does not include wild speculations about why a supernatural entity is the reason for existence.

I have a facebook friend that I have known for since 2006. He's a professional biologist and really knows his subject. The interesting thing is he recently (6 months ago) fell head-over-heels in love with a Mormon lady. He's moved to Utah and has started studying the CofLDS and going to church for the first time in decades with the intention of becoming a mormon. If he can resolve CotLDS doctrine with his knowledge of biology. Yesterday came a crunch moment. The CotLDS is ambivalent to evolution and doctrine is moving to making noises to the effect that accepting evolution is a personal choice. This is all very well, except for the fact that his future mother in law is a rabid anti-evolutionist. What has impressed me about him is that he has embraced the idea of studying Mormonism in a brilliantly academic way. He has brought the rigour of his scientific background to the study of the religion. The basic problem he has found is that religion/faith is much more an individual emotional choice than a logical choice, and in my experience emotions trump logic almost every time. So he's having a hard time at the moment.

So we have a lot to discuss and as long as people keep a cool head and appreciate they have no right to force their views on others then there will be no problem. But I invest a lot of time and effort to keep this place running peacefully and at the end of the day the forum is more important that any one member (atheist or not). So if the discussions are civil and impersonal they can continue as long as people are prepared to participate in them, but if they degenerate into a flame war then I'll do what is needed to put the fires out, without hesitation.

Chris