So what DO you think of Jesus?

[Crow]

At least the epic of gilgamesh story has many sexy versions, and even gorgeous fanart.

Pretty much all religions except Judaism, Christianity and Islam have great fantastical and sexy stories, the only good stuff from those religions comes from the book of enoch and that's not even canonical.

[Sweetdeath]

At least the epic of gilgamesh story has many sexy versions, and even gorgeous fanart.

Pretty much all religions except Judaism, Christianity and Islam have great fantastical and sexy stories, the only good stuff from those religions comes from the book of enoch and that's not even canonical.

christianity is only sexy cuz of angels, but I call that angel mythology and separate it completely.
So.. XD yeah, I still don't care for christianity, even myth wise.

[history_geek]

What do I think of Jesus? He is a character in a religous scripture who may have some historical basis, from either one or numerous "messiahs" that ran around Palestine and Judea during the Roman occupation. What sets him (or this character) apart from most though is his hippie-idealogy, while most other "messiahs" were preaching a more violent way of getting rid of the romans. He also condratics himself, and un-shamefully copy-pastes philosophical ideas that had existed for centuries before the given time of "Jesus's" existance.

Also even if he did exist, he might not have been the messiah of the old testament, as pointed out by a YouTube user "ProfMTH", who has a 5 part series about the subject, where he uses the text of the bible to prove this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wx5EKaY1B8g&feature=channel_video_title

Other then that, "meh" sums my thoughs quite well.

And "truth"? Well, like "god" it has many defenitions, and it depends upon the person which one is "more correct", so in other words it is subjective.

[SuperiorEd]

Thanks for your answer, SuperiorEd!  I gather that you're not an atheist, right?  How long have you held you're current view of Christ?

33 years.  Odd to say, but that's the number.  For me, the heart knew but the mind had doubt.  That was, until I realized that physics in in the first few verses of Genesis.  This is no mistake.  Light is both a particle and a wave.  All particles have associated waves.  Why is this important to someone who doubts the Bible?  Simple.  The observer collapses the indeterminate wave of infinity by changing the states in matter.  Do a Google search for wave function collapse.  The observer is necessary for matter to change states.  Evolution is close, but lacks one thing--information.  Why is this critical to Genesis 1?  I'll get to that.

Remember this last bit of the story.  The oak tree is enfolded into the acorn.  If it gains union with the soil around it, it unfolds by design to become the mighty oak.  At our essence, we are the information of our designer.  We express this body by this essence to form.  The essence can be saved or lost.  As you look out across the ocean of reality, realize that you are only seeing the surface and the waves.  You must dive deep to see what is hidden in the depths. 

So dive.

Genesis 1

Genesis 1:1 
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Einstein only let us know this in the last century.  Random?

Remember, light is both a particle and a wave.  That implies that all matter is both.  Your body is matter, is it not?  What else is key to your substance?  Consciousness.  Why is this important?

The trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Jesus said that "I and the Father are one."  They are a duality?  Together, they are "The Great I AM."  Catch that?  Consciousness.

Why is the wave from light important to this discussion?  They are one. 

Father (Light / Prima Materia / God)
Son (Word form John 1 / Wave / Force / Laws / Programming of Nature form Image)
Holy Spirit (Consciousness)

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Can you overcome your doubt?  I can and did. 

Need more evidence?

[fester30]

Thanks for your answer, SuperiorEd!  I gather that you're not an atheist, right?  How long have you held you're current view of Christ?

33 years.  Odd to say, but that's the number.  For me, the heart knew but the mind had doubt.  That was, until I realized that physics in in the first few verses of Genesis.  This is no mistake.  Light is both a particle and a wave.  All particles have associated waves.  Why is this important to someone who doubts the Bible?  Simple.  The observer collapses the indeterminate wave of infinity by changing the states in matter.  Do a Google search for wave function collapse.  The observer is necessary for matter to change states.  Evolution is close, but lacks one thing--information.  Why is this critical to Genesis 1?  I'll get to that.

Remember this last bit of the story.  The oak tree is enfolded into the acorn.  If it gains union with the soil around it, it unfolds by design to become the mighty oak.  At our essence, we are the information of our designer.  We express this body by this essence to form.  The essence can be saved or lost.  As you look out across the ocean of reality, realize that you are only seeing the surface and the waves.  You must dive deep to see what is hidden in the depths. 

So dive.

Genesis 1

Genesis 1:1 
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Einstein only let us know this in the last century.  Random?

Remember, light is both a particle and a wave.  That implies that all matter is both.  Your body is matter, is it not?  What else is key to your substance?  Consciousness.  Why is this important?

The trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Jesus said that "I and the Father are one."  They are a duality?  Together, they are "The Great I AM."  Catch that?  Consciousness.

Why is the wave from light important to this discussion?  They are one. 

Father (Light / Prima Materia / God)
Son (Word form John 1 / Wave / Force / Laws / Programming of Nature form Image)
Holy Spirit (Consciousness)

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Can you overcome your doubt?  I can and did. 

Need more evidence?

All that and yet the jerk creates people that have absolutely no chance to get to the "heavens" (which the authors of the Bible thought were a sort of shell in the sky that had stars, sun, and moon embedded into it, and had floodgates that opened to cause the rain).  Apparently the Bible was divinely inspired, which means God, who created all, didn't know about the lack of an actual firmament and the vast expanse of space that he created.

[Crow]

Genesis 1:1 
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

I just want to hijack this thread for a a question that relates to the above.

SuperiorEd you say that physics is shown in genesis and have used the above as one of your examples, can you please define your definition of Time, Space, Matter and Energy? I ask this because the definition of these in physics do not equate with the way you have defined them in the example.

[Davin]

Thanks for your answer, SuperiorEd!  I gather that you're not an atheist, right?  How long have you held you're current view of Christ?

33 years.  Odd to say, but that's the number.  For me, the heart knew but the mind had doubt.  That was, until I realized that physics in in the first few verses of Genesis.  This is no mistake.  Light is both a particle and a wave.  All particles have associated waves.  Why is this important to someone who doubts the Bible?  Simple.  The observer collapses the indeterminate wave of infinity by changing the states in matter.  Do a Google search for wave function collapse.  The observer is necessary for matter to change states.  Evolution is close, but lacks one thing--information.  Why is this critical to Genesis 1?  I'll get to that.

This is common misunderstanding of the wave function and a gross error used for "evidence" of a conscious being that created everything. There is more than just the faulty usage of the wave function that is wrong here. Even if this meant that nothing happens without an observer, there are some major problems with the creation of something from nothing as a result of an observer: the collapse of a wave function takes time, without time, there is no change in states from multiple possibilities to one possibility. The other problem is that the claimed observer is always observing everything, if that were the case, then humans collapsing the wave function by observation would not happen because it would have already been observed. Both of these problems point more to there not being an omnipotent and/or prime observer.

That being said, things happen at the quantum level without observation, the wave function is only used when we attempt to observe what is going on, not to make things go on.

Remember this last bit of the story.  The oak tree is enfolded into the acorn.  If it gains union with the soil around it, it unfolds by design to become the mighty oak.  At our essence, we are the information of our designer.  We express this body by this essence to form.  The essence can be saved or lost.  As you look out across the ocean of reality, realize that you are only seeing the surface and the waves.  You must dive deep to see what is hidden in the depths. 

So dive.

Wow, preach much? The assumption that we've not "dived" into the depths of this stuff is more than a little condescending. I assure you that the majority of us have dug in quite deep into many of the things you've brought up. If there is a problem with depth, it is because we tend to go deeper than theists.

Genesis 1

Genesis 1:1 
In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

This looks more like looking back to try and make something fit into what we've discovered than something that was trying to show us what to discover. The origin story of Ra creating himself from the swirling, liquid mass of what he called his father is closer to the big bang theory, than even this modified version of the bible.

Einstein only let us know this in the last century.  Random?

Remember, light is both a particle and a wave.  That implies that all matter is both.  Your body is matter, is it not?  What else is key to your substance?  Consciousness.  Why is this important?

The trinity is Father, Son and Holy Spirit.  Jesus said that "I and the Father are one."  They are a duality?  Together, they are "The Great I AM."  Catch that?  Consciousness.

Why is the wave from light important to this discussion?  They are one. 

Father (Light / Prima Materia / God)
Son (Word form John 1 / Wave / Force / Laws / Programming of Nature form Image)
Holy Spirit (Consciousness)

John 1

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it.

Can you overcome your doubt?  I can and did.

This whole part did not make any sense.

Need more evidence?

Well, any evidence is more than none, so yes.

[Too Few Lions]

In the Beginning (Time), God created the heavens (Space) and the earth (Matter). Let there be light (Energy).

Genesis 1.1 - 'In the beginning the god(s) created the heavens and the earth'

The reason why the first thing the god(s) do is separate the heavens from the earth is because the people who first wrote that verse thought that the universe was a flat earth surrounded by a domed heaven, something like this.



hardly compatible with modern conceptions of the universe, and definitely not evidence that the Israelite god(s) created the universe!

[Asmodean]

Is that a bunch of Asmokin down in that grayness below..?  ???

...Cool!

That said, believers do seem to attribute meanings to the words in their books, which are... Just not there.

If they did mean "Space and matter" by "Heaven and Earth", they would have written that. Those are very different concepts.

Additionally, if the supposed god did his first recorded thing "in the beginning", it was done within time, not "before" it. That would mean god does not necessarilly "predate" time, which means god is the Big Bang whih means you are probably a pantheist or something.

Why can't you people just read your book as what it is - a collection of stories by vastly ignorant people living in a vastly unpleasant time in a rather unpleasant place, hearding smelly, unpleasant goats.

[Sweetdeath]

What Asmo said. And I love the Asmo ghosts!!

That is my biggest issue, us that people take the bible and use it as facts, which is not only pathetic, but shows how little you are willing to think or argue.

And even if God created /is the big bang, that means he made an enviorment and people to live in it, but then abandoned the area, because as far as I have observed in life, he /she/it has yet to step in and actually intervine in anyone's life; to stop a rapist or murderer, or an innocent child from being trafficked. So yeah, I don't believe in a god, because even if one does exists, it is not worthy of my time or worship.

[Too Few Lions]

Is that a bunch of Asmokin down in that grayness below..?  ???

I think it is! That or the hattifatteners...

Why can't you people just read your book as what it is - a collection of stories by vastly ignorant people living in a vastly unpleasant time in a rather unpleasant place, hearding smelly, unpleasant goats.

Unfortunately hearding wasn't the only thing the Israelites used to do with those smelly unpleasant goats in between making up myths to try and explain their very simplistic view of the universe!

[Asmodean]

I think it is! That or the hattifatteners...

Oh! They related. They all Asmo's Swede-Finnish cousins.

Unfortunately hearding wasn't the only thing the Israelites used to do with those smelly unpleasant goats in between making up myths to try and explain their very simplistic view of the universe!

Yeah... I did try to skip the less pleasant parts of what they did to smelly unpleasant goats... Come to think of it, they weren't all too pleasant with their daughters either, were they, those smelly hearders..?  ???

[Sweetdeath]

I would like to meet your cousins, Asmo. XD

[history_geek]

I would like to meet your cousins, Asmo. XD

Just be carefull, Sweetdeath. Hattivatit (or hattifatterns or whatever..) create elecricity, so remember to keep your distance



Maaaaan, it's been such along time since I saw Muumit on tv....*sees what today passes as "childrens cartoons"*....ffffffuuuuuuuuu-

[fester30]

Is that a bunch of Asmokin down in that grayness below..?  ???

Asmokin in the grayness... otherwise known as dark matter?  Some theists ask if God is in the dark matter.  Perhaps that is where Asmo really resides?