OUR SOULS

[tomday]

one's very personality can change when these things are altered

We all know that taking drugs, smoking, drinking alcohol, even coffee changes a persons personality by simply introducing chemicals into the brain.   Back in the seventies I suffered from 'clinical depression' which blighted my life, and those close to me. It wasn't just that I felt 'depressed', it was that I was emotionally numb and could not interact appropriately in any normal social environment (couldn't even smile no matter how much I wanted to) - i.e. my personality was shot!  I was advised by a psychiatrist that my problem was probably caused by a chemical imbalance in my brain and later discovered that IN MY CASE, by taking supplements of good quality, natural balance vitamin B complex, I was able to control the depression and have been totally in control of it since - regular daily supplementation keeps it at bay most all of the time and if I do get the early warning signs I am able to take appropriate measures to stop it from surfacing (I emphasized 'in my case' because it is not a general panacea and other people's depression may have different root causes).
The cynics amongst you may be saying "it's all in the mind!" - damn right it is!  simple fact is that emotions are controlled by chemical messengers in your brain -your body does not absorb these chemicals from the air around you, but from your food, and if you don't take in enough of what your brain needs from the food you eat, the messages from your brain just don't get sent effectively.    
Unfortunately, those who suffer from mental illness tend to become willing targets for bible-bashing vultures, It is my experience here in the UK that many people who suffer from depression get themselves drawn into religious groups always on the look out for easy, gullible targets (poor souls!).

[SteveS]

Seems like it - they'll jump on a troubled psyche faster than a skirt-chaser will pick up a crying girl on the rebound....

They always play this card, too.  The JW's that hit me up were all about "Doesn't the world seem evil to you?  Aren't you afraid of dying?  Don't you wish there could be something more - something wonderful?  Wouldn't you want to live forever in paradise?  Wouldn't you like all your questions answered?"

Blah-blah-blah-blah-blah.  As far as I'm concerned it borders on outright fraud - they can't deliver one single thing that they promise.  Near as I can tell, nobody lives forever, there is no paradise, there is nothing "more", nobody gets all their questions answered, and so on and so forth.

Maybe the trial lawyers will get a hold of this: world-wide class action lawsuit against religions for making fraudulent advertising claims.  The Catholic church alone must be worth billions, right?  They've got the deep pockets.....

If they can sue McDonalds, who never (that I saw anyway) made any claim that their food was healthy --- why not the church?

[doggone]

Hey guys:
  I'm new to this site. I'm an Engineer from Montana. I'm educated, well traveled, a collector of artifacts and dinosaur bones..... Who all is a member of this interesting site, and who all is willing to talk SCIENCE with me..??

[McQ]

Hey guys:
  I'm new to this site. I'm an Engineer from Montana. I'm educated, well traveled, a collector of artifacts and dinosaur bones..... Who all is a member of this interesting site, and who all is willing to talk SCIENCE with me..??

Welcome to the forum, doggone. You'll find a lot of different folks here on the forum. Feel free to read the introductions that others have posted and jump on in there yourself.

I think you'll find a few people here who enjoy science, scientific thought, and rationality in general.

[SteveS]

Hi doggone!  I enjoy science although I am not a scientist.  I'm a software engineer.  If you've got scientific input please don't be afraid to share --- I for one will enjoy it thoroughly!  How do you collect dinosaur bones?  Do you find them?

[myleviathan]

It is my experience here in the UK that many people who suffer from depression get themselves drawn into religious groups always on the look out for easy, gullible targets (poor souls!).

This is how evangelical church grows. They wait for a breakdown and then close in, offering support and friendship in a time of need. Has anybody seen that scene in 'Borat' where he finds himself in the middle of a Pentecostal revival after being stranded? Great stuff. Very visually demonstrative of your point.

[donkeyhoty]

This is how evangelical church grows. They wait for a breakdown and then close in, offering support and friendship in a time of need. Has anybody seen that scene in 'Borat' where he finds himself in the middle of a Pentecostal revival after being stranded? Great stuff. Very visually demonstrative of your point.

It's also why religious "aid" organizations always take bibles with them along with whatever "aid" they're taking to impoverished or disaster areas.

[PigBoy]

consciousness is a reflective brain function.  when the brain is dead, it isn't conscious that it's dead.  it can't really imagine being dead because that's the way it's engineered; it's too integral to it's functioning.

this metaphor is probably overused, but when a computer is shut off, it doesn't think about when it used to be on or when it will be on again.  it's just off.  the electricity that ran it or would be running it is being used elsewhere.  in time, the circuitry breaks down, and the matter is broken down for use elsewhere.  that's not reincarnation because the consciousness of the original collection of energy and matter and the functioning it once had is dispersed.

this is what makes life so precious as opposed to the false promises that religion advertises.

[Kona]

Who all is a member of this interesting site, and who all is willing to talk SCIENCE with me..??

Hmmm,   sounds like fun, but exactly to which branch of science are you referring??

[LARA]

Hmmm.  Existence and consciousness.  My chair exists, this doesn't seem to be a terribly difficult thing to accomplish for atomic matter.  Consciousness, on the other hand, seems to require a great deal more complexity than that.  Apparently consciousness requires memory and decision making from that memory.

We all go to sleep, wake up, forget.  It's not really nonexistence, just unconsciousness.  I had the unfortunate experience of having a head injury as a kid.  I was interacting, apparently speaking with my parents and doctors after the event, but my short term memory was non-functional.  According to what people tell me, I couldn't even repeat back a string of simple words such as ball, bat, pen.  The only knowledge I have of the accident is from what people tell me.  I didn't regain my short term memory until after I had slept and I still have gaps in my long term memory around that time in my life.  So where was "I"?

My grandmother had a stroke when she was in her late seventies, and lost all of her memories except for those when she was a young woman.  She didn't recognize her own son, or know who I was.  It was a terrible way to exist and I felt so sorry for her, because she was obviously in a great deal of mental anguish.  But even without these memories or the ability to form new ones, she still had intelligence.  She taught me how to hand sew after the stroke, even though she couldn't remember doing it later.

So what is consciousness?  What is a soul?  Is it our memories?  If we are constructed of mere information, how does that affect our definition of sentience?  What does it mean to create an AI on a computer system?  What does it mean to write in a forum?  Are these words an extension of my informational self? If I change my mind, do I change my "soul"?

If we start to look into the world of information, then the concept of AI and avatars begins to lend some very strange ideas indeed to the traditional concept of the soul.  We get into the realm of possibilities, imagination, mathematics, metaphysical weirdness and other quantum quackery.

The Judeo-Christian mind-set of the soul is just one set of ideas in an infinite sea of possibilities.   There is so much more out there.