Incident at amusement park involving muslims

[Tank]

http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthread.php?77005-News-muslim-sisters-banned-from-amusement-park-ride

"The more islamophobic westerners get, the more stupid muslims become."

Pretty much all I would say.

The fact that 1:1,000 (or less) Muslims are nutters is what gets Muslims a bad name, it shouldn't, but it does, that's just human group think for you. In fact with 1,300,000,000 Muslims around it would only need 1:10,000 (or 0.01%) to be a nutter to give 130,000 fanatics, and they are the one's that take Jihad too far or believe too hard and think they are driven by Allah to kill.

I don't hate Muslims, but I do 'hate' Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism, Sikhism etc because they are all world views based on historical superstition and the assumption that a god or gods exists. Thus they hold humanity back from understanding what it truly is, an evolved creature. Evolution is pragmatic, not perfect, it has no aim or moral centre or ethical standards. Natural selection simply and brutally selects out those individuals in a group less able to reproduce, that's it, nothing more. Believing that there is a great big sky daddy that knows what's going on and will eventually make things all better is a stupid, stupid, way to behave. It's the ultimate cop-out from responsibility, the ultimate cowardice in the face of reality.

Humainity has to grow up and leave its childhood fairy stories behind and take full responsibility for its actions both individually and collectively and the first step is to flush belief for its own sake and faith down the toilet. ISoK you can't even effectivly define what your god is!

We've had this discussion before...I can't define God and especially not in the way of the scientific method.


Tank, but I would love to start debating this with you.
Lets start with the following questions: What do you see as progress? What responsibilities do we have?

Start a thread in the appropriate fora than, don't divert an existing thread please. And state your position first if you don't mind.

[Davin]

I hate Muzlims.


Now I feel like part of this group.

I hate Muzlims too! Damb those 'mercan Muslims!

Iz thiz a jab towardz merkin'z over uze of replacing the letter 's' with the letter 'z' in zeveral wordz?

No one got killed or seriously injured, so it wasn't too bad.

The cops had to do their job and make everything all peaceful again, and as long as they do so without needlessly tazering or beating people, they did a decent job. I know from personal experience that in situations like this the police often arrest more than they need simpy because they don't know exactly who the need to arrest.

So as far as I know from the news, there isn't too much of a big deal in this story, but I appreciate the example that one can learn from. When explaining the policy the organizer should've been very clear. Because when someone says you aren't allowed to do something because you're wearing something you hold very important just because that is the way it is, it's difficult to see that as anything but discrimination.

[Sweetdeath]

Oh, you boys xD I just woke up.  *laughs*

Btw, have any one else heard any stories reguarding this same topic?
This one comes most to mind:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/12/stealth-jihad-alert-georgia-judge-jails-muslim-woman-for-refusing-to-remove-headscarf-at-security-ch.htm


Anyway, my honest opinion is, you can wear whatever on your head.  I don't have a problem with jihads, but for some reason, asing a woman to remove one is like asking hr to get her pants off.  Seroously, calm down.  I would not want a group of thsm to get on a ride with a potentially cause harm by getting caught in the mechanics or worse.

[Too Few Lions]

but for some reason, asing a woman to remove one is like asking hr to get her pants off. 

brilliant!

[Lecter]

No one hates muslims. Just think It's idiotic to make a big deal about a garment. Hnnn. *eye roll*

This is a bit off topic since I haven't checked the link, yet. (Gonna do it when I get home)

Sweetdeath, can you please send me some topless photos to my email? I don't think it's a big deal, it's just a piece of garment, right?

See what I did there? Women, whatever their religion might be, have different opinions on what parts of their body they want to keep covered. Those Muslim women cover more than most women here, and you cover more than what some African tribes cover.

Would you simply take off your top to go on a ride? Or would you skip that ride?

PS: I was just joking about the pictures, I'm sorry in advance if I offended you or anything

[Sweetdeath]

*sigh* ....  Seriously?  Joking or not, you dont know me to say such "humor."

But ok, i'll just respond by saying they are raised to cover their face, but outside the middle east/egypt, they  need to learn to adapt to other countries policies and laws.

[Crow]

I have to agree with the park owners on standing by their policy. It doesn't matter if the individual has religious reasons for wearing the head wear in question. Shame on the idiots involved that couldn't see that it's blatantly a matter of health & safety and insurance. Its the same issue as banks having a problem with women wearing the burker(sp?) in their branches as its a matter of security.

Their was another stupid incident like this a few years back involving British Airways asking an employee to conceal her cross necklace. It just highlights the stupidity that religion encourages. I didn't complain when I was reprimanded and almost lost my job by my previous employer for refusing to do work for a church which had absolutely nothing to do with my job.

[Sweetdeath]

I have to agree with the park owners on standing by their policy. It doesn't matter if the individual has religious reasons for wearing the head wear in question. Shame on the idiots involved that couldn't see that it's blatantly a matter of health & safety and insurance. Its the same issue as banks having a problem with women wearing the burker(sp?) in their branches as its a matter of security.

Their was another stupid incident like this a few years back involving British Airways asking an employee to conceal her cross necklace. It just highlights the stupidity that religion encourages. I didn't complain when I was reprimanded and almost lost my job by my previous employer for refusing to do work for a church which had absolutely nothing to do with my job.

I was thinking about people at jobs.    A bank wouldn't allow someone to cover their face. It's dangerous. 
Your face is your identity.

[Medusa]

Oh, you boys xD I just woke up.  *laughs*

Btw, have any one else heard any stories reguarding this same topic?
This one comes most to mind:

http://www.jihadwatch.org/2008/12/stealth-jihad-alert-georgia-judge-jails-muslim-woman-for-refusing-to-remove-headscarf-at-security-ch.htm


Anyway, my honest opinion is, you can wear whatever on your head.  I don't have a problem with jihads, but for some reason, asing a woman to remove one is like asking hr to get her pants off.  Seroously, calm down.  I would not want a group of thsm to get on a ride with a potentially cause harm by getting caught in the mechanics or worse.

You have your Islamic terms confused.

Jihad means struggle.
Hijab or Hijabi is the veil.

*sigh* ....  Seriously?  Joking or not, you dont know me to say such "humor."

But ok, i'll just respond by saying they are raised to cover their face, but outside the middle east/egypt, they  need to learn to adapt to other countries policies and laws.

1) in Egypt you aren't forced to wear anything. I know this because I've been told of the outfits Lecter gets to see on the beach.

*eyes Lecter

[Sweetdeath]

Oh! Thanks for correcting me.   I'll remember the proper name for the terms now.

[Tank]

No one hates muslims. Just think It's idiotic to make a big deal about a garment. Hnnn. *eye roll*

This is a bit off topic since I haven't checked the link, yet. (Gonna do it when I get home)

Sweetdeath, can you please send me some topless photos to my email? I don't think it's a big deal, it's just a piece of garment, right?

See what I did there? Women, whatever their religion might be, have different opinions on what parts of their body they want to keep covered. Those Muslim women cover more than most women here, and you cover more than what some African tribes cover.

Would you simply take off your top to go on a ride? Or would you skip that ride?

PS: I was just joking about the pictures, I'm sorry in advance if I offended you or anything

Fashion is a personal statement and clothes have also been closely associated with tribalism and orthopraxy ever since there have been clothes. I don't care what a person wears, up to the point where their clothing does not impinge on my safety/security. Loose and/or long clothing in the vicinity of machinery is dangerous, that is self-evident. Facial coverings are an issue when a person's identity needs to be confirmed.

However on a personal level I find the vail offensive, dehumanising and oppressive, but I also find the bikini offensive, dehumanising and oppressive as I don't see anything wrong/evil about the human body.

[Asmodean]

1) in Egypt you aren't forced to wear anything. I know this because I've been told of the outfits Lecter gets to see on the beach.

Does that not depends on the husband though..? Because to the best of my knowledge, nearly all muslim societies are male-dominated and if the male says woman has to wear a tent, than tent she wears..? And if she refuses, he can beat her with a stick..?

Never been to Egypt in particular, but parts of the muslim world I have visited were pretty much as described and not only in relation to wearing tents.

[Whitney]

From my understanding, Egypt is one of the more liberal Islamic countries.  There are American Muslims women who dress unmodestly too.  To what extent they must cover depends on how fundamentalist the area is.

The only reason I find covering of the femaie body in Islam offensive to the women is because men are not held to the same standard.  And yes I am well aware of how Muslim women who do cover themselves feel about the covering or at least the feelings of those in free areas where taking it off would not have legal or social consequences.

[Sweetdeath]

No one hates muslims. Just think It's idiotic to make a big deal about a garment. Hnnn. *eye roll*

This is a bit off topic since I haven't checked the link, yet. (Gonna do it when I get home)

Sweetdeath, can you please send me some topless photos to my email? I don't think it's a big deal, it's just a piece of garment, right?

See what I did there? Women, whatever their religion might be, have different opinions on what parts of their body they want to keep covered. Those Muslim women cover more than most women here, and you cover more than what some African tribes cover.

Would you simply take off your top to go on a ride? Or would you skip that ride?

PS: I was just joking about the pictures, I'm sorry in advance if I offended you or anything

Fashion is a personal statement and clothes have also been closely associated with tribalism and orthopraxy ever since there have been clothes. I don't care what a person wears, up to the point where their clothing does not impinge on my safety/security. Loose and/or long clothing in the vicinity of machinery is dangerous, that is self-evident. Facial coverings are an issue when a person's identity needs to be confirmed.

However on a personal level I find the vail offensive, dehumanising and oppressive, but I also find the bikini offensive, dehumanising and oppressive as I don't see anything wrong/evil about the human body.

Wow, Tank <3

I really dislike veils in any way (this includes wedding veils) because they make women into an object.  "oh, woman must be pure and virginal!"

I think its evil to place such ridiculous labels on only women.    And like Whitney said, men in muslim countries arent held to any standards. And even though medusa says over and over that "muslim or egyptian women are fiesty."  They are still repressed.  It is still extremely male dominated countries in which I have no desire to ever go.

You say they are forced to wear veil, but I think they are brainwashed into wearing from birth.

[Lecter]

*sigh* ....  Seriously?  Joking or not, you dont know me to say such "humor."

But ok, i'll just respond by saying they are raised to cover their face, but outside the middle east/egypt, they  need to learn to adapt to other countries policies and laws.

Your reply supports exactly what I was trying to say. You took offense because I asked you to 'just take a garment off'. Now you know exactly what those women feel like when someone says, 'just take it off, it's no big deal'.

Always, remember that feeling.

Fashion is a personal statement and clothes have also been closely associated with tribalism and orthopraxy ever since there have been clothes. I don't care what a person wears, up to the point where their clothing does not impinge on my safety/security. Loose and/or long clothing in the vicinity of machinery is dangerous, that is self-evident. Facial coverings are an issue when a person's identity needs to be confirmed.

However on a personal level I find the vail offensive, dehumanising and oppressive, but I also find the bikini offensive, dehumanising and oppressive as I don't see anything wrong/evil about the human body.

I wasn't discussing what women should or should not be wearing. You misunderstood my point. I was addressing the statement that they should just take it off.

This isn't about Islam, and this isn't about religion. Women all over the world choose to cover certain parts of their body, and it shouldn't matter what you or I want them to uncover. If they want to keep a certain part covered for whatever reason they have in their head, it would be quite silly to want them to just uncover.

You have every right to disagree with their reasons for covering, you do not have the right to reach your hand and uncover them against their will. Unless it's for safety reasons or whatever rules a certain place has. But then again, this is something that should be enforced by the representatives of law and not just random people on the street.