Keep religion out of schools

[Sweetdeath]

I know this is an old article, but I wanted to share anyway.   Obviously eliminating religion in school is a huge first step...

Please read and post your comments/opinions.
http://www.azarmajedi.com/articles/Ban%20all%20religious%20schools.html

Azar Majedi: Yes. They must be banned and education must be separated from religion and the church. Universal laws and standards are the basis of a civil society that respects human rights and of religion from the state and education is the basis of a secular society, where free thinking is respected and encouraged. Religion, in my opinion, is permeated with superstition and contradicts the scientific achievements of humanity. For all these reasons religious schools must be banned. Furthermore, all religions are patriarcha and sexist. As it regards Islam, it is well- known for its sexist codes and rules. This is so because Islam has not historically been challenged or reformed, as it is

[Abletony]

Don't you think that's just a tad extreme, sweetdeath? To say the least? Let's not forget that religious people come in all shapes and sizes. Some are fanatics, others are moderate, most I'd say are merely interested in nothing else than raising good kids. Ok, religion isn't the only way to do this, but to just say that raising kids to be religious is child abuse is a little melodramatic. Do you know any religious people with kids? Surely you don't think they've all turned out to be wrecks. I think you're being quite unreasonable. Child abuse isn't a term that you can just throw around just because you disagree with a religion or don't believe in god. It's like trying to have your cake and eat it. Other people are entitled to believe what they like, and raise their kids in the way they think is best.

[Sweetdeath]

First off, did you even read the article?

You are right, religious fanatics come in all extremes, though let's be realistic,religion  has nothing to do with teaching a child right from wrong.   If anything, religion  promotes sexism, prejudice, and segragation.

As far as child abuse, if you read the article, I was mainly referring to islam, which promotes extreme sexism, forcing girls to cover themselves with veils, unable to go out without a man, etc.

Segragation comes from Jewish people who refuse to date or marry outside if their own religion.   I will not say ALL Jewish people, because I'm sure a lot broke away from  that.

I honestly think raising a child without religion is the way to a better future for all.   Like the article says, children aren't born with a need for any religion.  It's the parents who usually force it on them.

[Abletony]

First off, did you even read the article?

You are right, religious fanatics come in all extremes, though let's be realistic,religion  has nothing to do with teaching a child right from wrong.   If anything, religion  promotes sexism, prejudice, and segragation.

As far as child abuse, if you read the article, I was mainly referring to islam, which promotes extreme sexism, forcing girls to cover themselves with veils, unable to go out without a man, etc.

Segragation comes from Jewish people who refuse to date or marry outside if their own religion.   I will not say ALL Jewish people, because I'm sure a lot broke away from  that.

I honestly think raising a child without religion is the way to a better future for all.   Like the article says, children aren't born with a need for any religion.  It's the parents who usually force it on them.

One doesn't have to be religious to be sexist, or any of the other things which are sometimes associated with religions. Are you really suggesting, for example, that a religious person, say a muslim, who raises their kids to be good, and uses their religion as a guide, and has no interest in being sexist, and focuses on what they see as positive aspects of the religion, is abusing their kids? If you do then that's naive. You're lumping all religious people into one great big box and that's as dangerous as us being labelled as evil for not believing in god. What really gets me is when someone generalises like crazy, as you're doing, just because some people believe in things that you don't believe in. I think that's taking things way too far.

[Sweetdeath]

I'm seriously not trying to generalize.  Anyone, religious or not can become a sexist asshole, but ... I think most religions already promote a certain behavior and mindset.

I've had some Christians and Catholics say to me their religion is against gays, etc, therefore they cannot be my friend.
I've also been snubbed some hindus and muslims for being a woman, therefore "weak." 

I know it isn't all, but it's A LOT.
I am not generalising. o_o

[Abletony]

I'm seriously not trying to generalize.  Anyone, religious or not can become a sexist asshole, but ... I think most religions already promote a certain behavior and mindset.

I've had some Christians and Catholics say to me their religion is against gays, etc, therefore they cannot be my friend.

I am not generalising. o_o

Well if you think about it, you should really try to separate everything you've heard about a religion (whether it's true or not) from what an individual's concept of the religion is. Is it not true that some (ie) christians are fanatical weirdos who focus much more on the loony aspects of the religion, while others have no interest in anything much other than the basics, like treating others as you'd have them treat you, and so on? You see, each individual is different. To say that raising one's kids to be religious is child abuse is to completely disregard the fact that each individual's motivations and concepts of the religion is different. A parent who teaches their kids that god created them and loves them and that they must always strive to be good decent people is not, in my opinion, child abuse in any way shape or form. I would assume, or hope, that you would agree with that.

As for having been snubbed by some hindus and muslims, well all I can say is, open your mind. If you think they're all like that that is sad. I've been snubbed by black people a few times but I never concluded that blacks are all like that. It's like anything else, you judge the individual. You don't just assume that their race or belief system is what wholly defines them. You are a lesbian but there's way much more to you than that. How would you like it if somebody refused to look at your personality and character, and just judged you on your sexuality? It wouldn't be very nice would it? I don't understand why you would do the same to others. If you think about it, you're in the same boat as religious people in that respect. Actually we are all in the same boat. We are all members of some group or other, which could so easily be judged in a negative and unfair way. I would have thought that you would be well aware of this.

[Sweetdeath]

As for having been snubbed by some hindus and muslims, well all I can say is, open your mind. If you think they're all like that that is sad. I've been snubbed by black people a few times but I never concluded that blacks are all like that.

I just said not all.  I am not going to further waste my breath with responses to you.  I am just going to wait for others to read and reply, as once again, you have gone way off topic.

Good day.

[Abletony]

As for having been snubbed by some hindus and muslims, well all I can say is, open your mind. If you think they're all like that that is sad. I've been snubbed by black people a few times but I never concluded that blacks are all like that.

I just said not all.  I am not going to further waste my breath with responses to you.  I am just going to wait for others to read and reply, as once again, you have gone way off topic.

Good day.

Correction. I'm exactly on topic. You may not be saying that all hindus and muslims would snub you, and I know you're not saying that, but you are certainly saying that raising one's kids to be religious is, per se, child abuse. Which is a huge generalisation which you're unable, of course, to justify.

[Medusa]

I personally don't believe in having religion in school at all. Everything else *the Islamic part* I'm skipping right on over. It's no one's business what religion parents want to teach their children.

And Sweetdeath, I have to just ask out of sheer curiosity. Do you know any Muslim people in real life?
(this would be me asking for clarification as to be civil per Tank's suggestion  )

[Sweetdeath]

I personally don't believe in having religion in school at all. Everything else *the Islamic part* I'm skipping right on over. It's no one's business what religion parents want to teach their children.

And Sweetdeath, I have to just ask out of sheer curiosity. Do you know any Muslim people in real life?
(this would be me asking for clarification as to be civil per Tank's suggestion  )

Yes, religion should be kept out of school, which is really the main of this article and thread.


And sadly I don't.  I am friends with a pretty cool Hindu guy. He's an IT. We nerd over old school nintendo games a lot.  XD

[Medusa]

I personally don't believe in having religion in school at all. Everything else *the Islamic part* I'm skipping right on over. It's no one's business what religion parents want to teach their children.

And Sweetdeath, I have to just ask out of sheer curiosity. Do you know any Muslim people in real life?
(this would be me asking for clarification as to be civil per Tank's suggestion  )

Yes, religion should be kept out of school, which is really the main of this article and thread.


And sadly I don't.  I am friends with a pretty cool Hindu guy. He's an IT. We nerd over old school nintendo games a lot.  XD

Ahh. It's understandable. Religion should be kept out of everything except your home and personal life. Just how smoking is! I was raised with a Hindu family next door. A Lutheran best friend, another Pagan best friend and a big Catholic family. I got the hodge podge of religious interactions starting from a very young age. Our experiences make the difference in our perceptions. I've known quite a few Muslims (I get regular customers who bowl at my work) mostly Malaysians but a few Egyptian families. They have been very nice. And if you ever meet an actual Muslim woman...You will be surprised on the feisty mouth they carry! These are not weak women in any means. They are pushy and loud mouthed wonderfully feisty women. 

[Sweetdeath]

I am sadly in a extreme Catholic neighborhood.

Though when I meet people one on one, I only care if they are a good, open minded person.  If their religion doesn't get in the way, I could care less. But once I start getting invited to baptisms, I have to just turn and walk away. XD

[Medusa]

I am sadly in a extreme Catholic neighborhood.

Though when I meet people one on one, I only care if they are a good, open minded person.  If their religion doesn't get in the way, I could care less. But once I start getting invited to baptisms, I have to just turn and walk away. XD

Nooo you need to go! You have no idea the party afterwards! Lots of food! Catholics eat alot!
(no wonder my family was fat) tee hee.

[Tom62]

It isn't child abuse, unless the children are raised by ultra-orthodox, fanatical weirdo's (<5% of the world population?). I grew up as a moderate Catholic and never regretted it. Sure some of their traditions and believes now look a bit silly in my eyes, but calling that kind of stuff child abuse is way over the top. Most Muslim families that I know raise their children as decent, moderate and caring people.

[Abletony]

It isn't child abuse, unless the children are raised by ultra-orthodox, fanatical weirdo's (<5% of the world population?). I grew up as a moderate Catholic and never regretted it. Sure some of their traditions and believes now look a bit silly in my eyes, but calling that kind of stuff child abuse is way over the top. Most Muslim families that I know raise their children as decent, moderate and caring people.

That's fair.

Sweetdeath's problem stems from the fact that her experiences of being around religious people is limited to say the least. Her xenophobia towards them is something which if she got over she would realise that her prejudices are based on fear.