Re: Psilocybin as the vehicle to language and creativity

[ForTheLoveOfAll]

I'm someone who is very interested in altered states, especially through the use of psychedelic substances. You could call me an Agnostic Shaman of sorts, a Psychonaut. I recently heard a very interesting and plausible theory presented by Terence McKenna. To those of you who don't know Terence, he's absolutely brilliant. [...]

He suggested that, during the course of our evolution, the one thing that sped our evolution up (Mentally, at least.) was the development of language. And he suggested that the thing that unleashed our creativity as a species was psilocybin, as found in magic mushrooms.

I first read McKenna's Food of the Gods in my late teens, around the same time I also read Huxley's Heaven and Hell and The Doors of Perception. It was not till a few years later at university I started trying various drugs. At the time fresh psilocybin mushrooms were legally available in the UK thanks to a loophole regarding legislation for "fresh produce" (a loophole now closed). My friends and I had an extraordinary summer. Until you've tried a hallucinogen you have no idea just how plastic our minds are. That plugging a chemical into my brain had such a profound effect on me is one of the most genuinely philosophical discoveries of my life; it stays with me to this day.

As that summer turned into winter the drug changed for me. Instead of drifting outward and losing myself, I would turn in and get tangled up in myself. The last of these experiences was genuinely horrible. I took me about six months to emotionally recover. I have not touched true hallucinogens since, I find MDMA a much kinder drug.

A quick word on McKenna. My problem with him* is that evolution takes time, constant forces have to be at play over long periods for noticeable genetic change to take place. It seems to me that psilocybin use is too ephemeral and short-lived to produce evolutionary change. A couple of other thoughts. First is that we increasingly find language behaviour in other animals, not just mammals either, we even see forms of vocalised communication in birds. Second is that there is another very compelling candidate for explaining the evolution of a "speaking ape". That's the profound effect of cooking (cf Catching Fire, how cooking made us human by Richard Wrangham - a book I cannot recommend enough), and the consequent increased efficiency of nourishment, allowing our guts to shrink and our brains to grow.

As for Tim Leary, I think Phlip K. Dick said it best: "those who claim God slumbers in pot are charlatans".

Interesting thread. Kudos.


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* I should make clear, my problem with McKenna's idea of drugs as evolutionarily significant. There is much else of what he says that rings true with me; especially what he has to say of the Shaman archetype and its absence in the monotheistic cultures.

ps:
[youtube:2ugjqtkf]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=baeT3g7udho[/youtube:2ugjqtkf]

I'm fortunate enough to live in a place totally isolated and where cops only come around to watch Football with the few people who have cable or a sattalite hookup.  

So getting away with experiencing mind altering substances was never too difficult.

And yes, alot of people are scared they will "lose themselves", but most of the time it's an exsploration of inner space. On DMT the experience, however, you go through an almost undeniably "spiritual" venture. Your mind, your "soul" is literally transported to another, higher dimension of reality. Now, I'm perfectly willing to admit that it may just be the awesome power of our brains playing this marvelous trick upon us, but the things DMT shows you, the places you "go", I doubt could be fueled by any human mind. I'm not saying this is proof of any god or spirit world, but it certainly makes you question things all the more. It's a belief system destroyer of the best kind, and I highly reccomend taking it in a controlled setting if you can find or make some good quality DMT.

And aye, McKenna is brilliant, no doubt, but my point in posting this thread was only to open up the idea that psilocybin MAY have had a role in our evolution. Not to assert that it did.

And yes. I often call myself an "Agnostic Shaman." There's no doubt at all that we're losing some very important knowledge by encroaching and slowly killing off native shamanic cultures.

[Wilson]

As someone who has experienced altered states, I can say as a fact that, when used correctly, psychadelic substances do enhance creativity. And unless you're in a terrible emotional state at the time of the trip, if you do it right, you wont have a negative experience. There are certain pathways in the brain that are opened up from the taking of pot and shrooms that were discovered by scientists studying people who were tripping. If I can find the article to back this up I'll post it on here, I don't recall where I saw it right now.

I'm certainly open to the possibility that hallucinogens can be useful in expanding creativity, it's just that I doubt whether that kind of creativity is useful for anything except for, maybe, artistic endeavors.  I guess a lot depends on your definition of creativity.  No question that altered states take your thinking in new and different directions, but I suspect that those directions are for the most part too unfocused and random to allow you to do anything practical.  But, as you say, I'm only guessing.  Perhaps you could give us some examples of the creative results that hallucinogens allowed you to accomplish.

Things like inventing the airplane and the computer chip and other things that make the world better for us - very doubtful that hallucinogens played a part.  My opinion is that psychedelics had almost nothing to do with the kind of creativity that accomplished great things.

[ForTheLoveOfAll]

As someone who has experienced altered states, I can say as a fact that, when used correctly, psychadelic substances do enhance creativity. And unless you're in a terrible emotional state at the time of the trip, if you do it right, you wont have a negative experience. There are certain pathways in the brain that are opened up from the taking of pot and shrooms that were discovered by scientists studying people who were tripping. If I can find the article to back this up I'll post it on here, I don't recall where I saw it right now.

I'm certainly open to the possibility that hallucinogens can be useful in expanding creativity, it's just that I doubt whether that kind of creativity is useful for anything except for, maybe, artistic endeavors.  I guess a lot depends on your definition of creativity.  No question that altered states take your thinking in new and different directions, but I suspect that those directions are for the most part too unfocused and random to allow you to do anything practical.  But, as you say, I'm only guessing.  Perhaps you could give us some examples of the creative results that hallucinogens allowed you to accomplish.

Things like inventing the airplane and the computer chip and other things that make the world better for us - very doubtful that hallucinogens played a part.  My opinion is that psychedelics had almost nothing to do with the kind of creativity that accomplished great things.

It's true that the main thing psychadelics do is expand creativity. The thing is, though, this doesn't only apply to artwork. (Though it's the main thing that it does!)
This creativity could go into new ways to achieve peaceful ends to a war, the realization of an idea that was not previously seen that could help a scientist with his latest invention, etc. They help you think outside the box, to think in a different way, a whole new perspective. In my opinion, we're sick without psychadelics. Modern society, in the Western world mostly, is so hostile towards the psychadelic experience that there just isn't enough research into it to show how beneficial a mind that regularly enters into an altered state could be. If it were more widely accepted, and more people were able to do it legally, and with caution as to not go overboard, I think our species would be pushed forward quite rapidly. Or, if not, we'd at least get some kick-ass music to replace all the shitty bands around these days.  
And while the greatest of things may have been accomplished by the sober mind, I'm pretty certain that many of the things that have been done would've sounded so crazy at the time to someone who wasn't high, that they never would've gone through with it otherwise.

And as far as my own creativity is concerned, DMT is my personal favorite. There are things you see on a DMT trip that quite simply cannot be explained with words. My creative thinking, reasoning, and memory has improved as a result of taking this mind enhancing drug, which, actually, occurs naturally in your brain anyway.

[penfold]

And yes, alot of people are scared they will "lose themselves", but most of the time it's an exsploration of inner space. On DMT the experience, however, you go through an almost undeniably "spiritual" venture. Your mind, your "soul" is literally transported to another, higher dimension of reality. Now, I'm perfectly willing to admit that it may just be the awesome power of our brains playing this marvelous trick upon us, but the things DMT shows you, the places you "go", I doubt could be fueled by any human mind. I'm not saying this is proof of any god or spirit world, but it certainly makes you question things all the more. It's a belief system destroyer of the best kind, and I highly reccomend taking it in a controlled setting if you can find or make some good quality DMT.

I've tried DMT a couple of times. Actually I found more depth in Salvia. I do profoundly disagree with the notion that somehow psychedelic experiences are spiritual. In my experience quite the opposite. The spiritual is found in quiet stillness; a letting go of everything other than the present moment. That is very hard to do when sober, and impossible when tripping. Rather the intoxicated mind becomes active, versatile and playful. I would far happier agree to McKenna's word: creative.

I would also say this. I have no desire to impinge upon your psychonautical voyages, but do take care. Those cultures who use psychedelics in ritual use, are well aware of the darkness that lies in them. The role of the shaman is not only teacher but also protector. You, as I once did, are taking these drugs outside of that cultural framework. That does make you vulnerable. At your age (I hope that does not sound absurdly patronising, it is not meant to be) the plasticity of the mind seems wonderful. However there are deep and dark structures which help you define who you are, which decide if you are happy or sad. These drugs can play with that; and not always for the better. Do not underestimate how profound an effect they can have.

peace