The conundrum of enlightenment

[elliebean]

stuff

Yawn.

[LegendarySandwich]

So, subjectivity is all useless? That seems rather odd for a Christian (which I presume you are) to say, as
they almost always emphasize faith and religious experience, both of which are subjective.

Why do you "presume" I'm a Christian? Did you not read the entire post before raising your criticisms? I am not a Dallas Cowboy
cheerleader either but there are things that I appreciate about them.

My apologies.

Have you read the Old Testament lately?

Christ does not appear in the Old Testament.

We're talking about Christianity, not Jesus.

EDIT: Also also, shouldn't this be moved to the religion forum?

Although I realize that I erroneously posted the The conundrum of enlightenment  post in the introductions area, I was mildly
disappointed when it was moved to the religious forum. Not disappointed about the fate of the post however, only the prejudice that
landed it there. This post was on the subject of atheism, prejudice, clear thinking and enlightenment. Though I asked no one to believe or have faith in anything but yourselves, I was treated as if I were a theist. In the context of this board I recognize this for the
slight that it was. The bias of this moderator (your buddy) is disappointing but not unexpected.  Que Sera Sera.

The religion section is for all threads pertaining to the subject of religion. This thread meets that criteria. Thus, it was moved. Where would you want it to be instead?

When I realized that you (Mr. Sandwich) were not quite interested enough in my post to thoroughly read and understand it, I decided I
would return the favor and move on to some of the more thoughtful and focused responses.

What exactly don't I understand about your post?

Mr. Tank,
I enjoyed reading your philosophical outline and applaud your clear thinking. Please don't worry about offending me. I hope you aren't
offended by my plain speaking either. My only disappointment was your misreading of my personal thinking/beliefs. I too am an Atheist but an Atheist who is not willing to throw the baby out with the bath water.

I wonder how it must sound to a person of faith when an Atheist complains of his/her brutal persecution by believers. Those poor
babies.To understand real persecution please reference the Jews or the early Christians and re-evaluate your empirical baseline for
suffering. I am not saying this of you but of those you referenced, an Atheist with thin skin is just another tiresome self absorbed
whiner. What keeps us from happiness lies 99% between our ears. My efforts for social change are directed towards criminals and people of rotten culture and not wasted on decent people who happen to be superstitious. I would no sooner waste my time with that than I would trying to stop the wind from blowing.

So, atheists who speak out against religious persecution against them are being stupid because people have and are suffering more than them?

Please remember that you, I, and most other Atheists do not represent the average of humanity. If you think we do.. then you're wrong. We represent the exception rather than the rule. Atheists are generally of higher intellectual capacity and education than the average person and, as such, cannot realistically expect the masses to reach any new level of enlightenment beyond what they have already. You, to them, are just some S.O.B. who is putting them down for their core beliefs.. and who care much for that business?

This is why I am happy. I have learned to let it go. I have accepted the inevitability of certain things and this is one of them.

What if the black people who had to deal with segregation and racism on a daily basis in the recent history of the US had said this? We can't just sit back and say "Oh well, what is, is."

Besides, beyond your immediate family and friends, where is your responsibility to change or interfere with the lives of others? Who
asked you? How did this become your job? No one has ever asked me to save the world and I, for one, am thankful they haven't.
Peace is what you make of it. If you can't find peace without interfering with others, then that is your home-made cross to bear and I
wish you all the best.

We're not trying to make everybody an atheist. We just want social change.

Mr. Pudding,

Forgive my bluntness but you sound damaged. Another poor persecuted Atheist suffering at the hands of those wicked Christians. Wimp much?

This is offensive.

You, I, and Darwin himself, were born into the broth of a Christian cultural soup and have been stewing in it so long as to no longer be able to taste the quality of it flavor. Move to a part of the world that has never been Christianised and then I'll guarantee you'll be eager to rejoin the tamed masses of the Christianized western world.

Again with the "Other places have it worse so you shouldn't want to make things better" argument.

Thank you for ending your post with a reference to manure. It is details such as that which serve to inform me the most as to the true character of the poster.

P@@p be with you.

Stop acting so self-righteous.

Mr. Voter

Thank you for your words. A note of caution however. If you agree with me you will lose status amoung the more radical factions of this board.. if that means anything to you.

Peace to you as well.

:pop:

Mr. hackenslash,

I feel like I know you from college. You were that one quintessentially rigid ideologue with a nasty side that he voyeuristically enjoyed exposing. You were condescending, argumentative, dismissive and even cryptic at times. The perfect liberal progressive hater. Don't be surprised when no one asks you to be the point man in the Pro-Atheism effort.

You misidentified me as a non-atheist.. so much for higher education eh? Who are you really.. Alan Combes?

My troll alert is going off.

[hackenslash]

Mr. hackenslash,

I feel like I know you from college. You were that one quintessentially rigid ideologue with a nasty side that he voyeuristically enjoyed exposing. You were condescending, argumentative, dismissive and even cryptic at times. The perfect liberal progressive hater. Don't be surprised when no one asks you to be the point man in the Pro-Atheism effort.

You misidentified me as a non-atheist.. so much for higher education eh? Who are you really.. Alan Combes?

So, no actual response to my rebuttal of your ex recto outpourings then? Just the personalisations?

Oh, and if I misidentified you (an assertion concerning which you can colour me skeptical on a galactic scale), it might be because of your fawning support of supernaturalist drivel. I suspect you are being less than honest here.

[Whitney]

and thinkbigger just got a warning....for being uncivil and acting like a troll.

Note:  Considering that he was so uncivil in his last post if he continues I'm going to jump to a permanent ban on this one.  I almost thought about doing that now but decided to give him another chance (perhaps he was drunk or in a bad mood).

[Thinkbigger]

You, I, and Darwin himself, were born into the broth of a Christian cultural soup and have been stewing in it so long as to no longer be able to taste the quality of it flavor. Move to a part of the world that has never been Christianised and then I'll guarantee you'll be eager to rejoin the tamed masses of the Christianized western world.

Many things on the OP I can appreciate and agree with, not because I'm a Christian, but because it seems the most logical of positions to take as an Atheist.  However, none do I agree with more than the above quote.  As personal proof, I've visited Eastern Europe half a dozen times and life without God is very monotonous and unsatisfying.  100% that way?  No, but it is the majority of the scene I've seen and the way many have depicted their life there to me.

There is no teacher like experience. I too have spent time in the Godless East and have nothing but pity for those trapped inside of their stunted and unsympathetic culture.

[LegendarySandwich]

You, I, and Darwin himself, were born into the broth of a Christian cultural soup and have been stewing in it so long as to no longer be able to taste the quality of it flavor. Move to a part of the world that has never been Christianised and then I'll guarantee you'll be eager to rejoin the tamed masses of the Christianized western world.

Many things on the OP I can appreciate and agree with, not because I'm a Christian, but because it seems the most logical of positions to take as an Atheist.  However, none do I agree with more than the above quote.  As personal proof, I've visited Eastern Europe half a dozen times and life without God is very monotonous and unsatisfying.  100% that way?  No, but it is the majority of the scene I've seen and the way many have depicted their life there to me.

There is no teacher like experience. I too have spent time in the Godless East and have nothing but pity for those trapped inside of their stunted and unsympathetic culture.

I don't think they need or want your pity.

[terranus]

I only have one major issue with your post, ThinkBigger...

is the primary reason that Christianity is the world's fastest growing religion.

Actually there are a multitude of religions that claim to be the world's "fastest growing religion" - Christianity of course among them. However, it is really quite difficult (maybe even impossible) to keep up with the entire world's religious thoughts, so saying definitively that one single religion is THE fastest growing one is incorrect. Islam, Hinduism, Deism and (believe it or not) Secularism also claim to be the world's fastest.

Please remember that you, I, and most other Atheists do not represent the average of humanity. If you think we do.. then you're wrong. We represent the exception rather than the rule. Atheists are generally of higher intellectual capacity and education than the average person and, as such, cannot realistically expect the masses to reach any new level of enlightenment beyond what they have already. You, to them, are just some S.O.B. who is putting them down for their core beliefs.. and who care much for that business?

This is why I am happy. I have learned to let it go. I have accepted the inevitability of certain things and this is one of them.

Besides, beyond your immediate family and friends, where is your responsibility to change or interfere with the lives of others? Who
asked you? How did this become your job? No one has ever asked me to save the world and I, for one, am thankful they haven't.
Peace is what you make of it. If you can't find peace without interfering with others, then that is your home-made cross to bear and I
wish you all the best.

This Iis something I almost completely agree with. Quite honestly I have no desire to want to free people from their religious chains. Why would I? Let them hold on to their silly beliefs...it's not really my business. If they are truly smart, then eventually they will figure it out on their own - like the rest of us did. If not, then they will continue to free up the roads around where I live at 11am on Sunday, which allows me to get across town to where I eat Sunday brunch in about 20 minutes less time than it normally takes. It would be nice if we could have truly secular leaders that wouldn't make religiously discriminatory decisions...but alas...we are the minority. It happens.

P.S. - I may not have agreed with a lot of the other things your original post said, but it was a damn good post in that it inspired debate, intelligent response and even a warning from our glorious leader, Kim-Jong Whitney.  :pop:

[Thinkbigger]

P.S. - I may not have agreed with a lot of the other things your original post said, but it was a damn good post in that it inspired debate, intelligent response and even a warning from our glorious leader, Kim-Jong Whitney.

Thank you for noticing, and of course this is my purpose. (Except the reprimand part, that was a surprise and was very telling one at that)

Touchy bunch.. some of them anyway.

If perceived insults constitute an offense around here then I might have a few complaints to lodge myself, except my skin isn't paper thin and I'm no snitch.

Booting me might have been fun and satisfying and all, but it also could have been bad from an overall image point of view. Don't want to look too rigid or harsh now do we. Oh no.. Am I being offensive again? I sure hope not.

[hackenslash]

Perhaps understanding the distinction between attacking the post and attacking the poster would aid you in your tenure. It isn't about insults being perceived, it's about the target of your comments.

[JoeBobSmith]

 

[JoeBobSmith]

hmm

[AnimatedDirt]

There is no teacher like experience. I too have spent time in the Godless East and have nothing but pity for those trapped inside of their stunted and unsympathetic culture.

I don't think they need or want your pity.

You know this because...

It's interesting that asertions like this can go on without proof or at least some backing.

I've been there and have spoken with many of the people.  I've seen thousands (literally) come to a different understanding of life and have seen for myself the huge change simple knowledge does.

[hackenslash]

guys we need to stop banning people.  We need a variety of viewpoints.

This has merit.

This one is very realistic

This does not.

[Thinkbigger]

Mr. hackenslash,

I feel like I know you from college. You were that one quintessentially rigid ideologue with a nasty side that he voyeuristically enjoyed exposing. You were condescending, argumentative, dismissive and even cryptic at times. The perfect liberal progressive hater. Don't be surprised when no one asks you to be the point man in the Pro-Atheism effort.

You misidentified me as a non-atheist.. so much for higher education eh? Who are you really.. Alan Combes?

So, no actual response to my rebuttal of your ex recto outpourings then? Just the personalisations?

Oh, and if I misidentified you (an assertion concerning which you can colour me skeptical on a galactic scale), it might be because of your fawning support of supernaturalist drivel. I suspect you are being less than honest here.

The expression you were looking for is (ad hominem attacks). Seems you can dish it but can't take it. Typical. Why is it that you would expect me to feel somehow obligated to respond to your dismissive critiques? (which in this case were nothing more than a group of thinly veiled expressions of contempt), do you feel I owe you something? You haven't earned my attention or any special consideration. Yet you complain when I refuse to dignify your snide assertions with a response. What?.. Really?

As with many up here, some of your ideas are tainted by your hatred of those you perceive to have hurt you or to have repressed you somehow at some point/s in the past. It's like a constant whining sound in the background up here. Forgive, forget, move on. Take responsibility for your own peace of mind by letting go of these puerile emotional issues from the past. Seriously, this is good advise from an unlikely source.

You seem at ease with crossing the line of civil to uncivil discourse. Just for the record, if it had been I who had originated your rectal emissions quip, I, in all likelihood, would have gotten the boot. You, on the other hand, will receive a pass owing to the fact that you are in lock step with the powers that be. Such a good little soldier.

So, you suspect I'm a troll then? Is that because I don't fit the narrative of your world view? Because I don't wear my emotional wounds like a badge of honor? Because I don't allow others to affect my personal happiness? Or because I don't share your displeasure with the majority of the human race? Who knows and who cares?

Think what you want. It's all between your ears and you are the only one who has to live in there. Funny thing that.

Now it's your turn to, once again, to state something crude and/or arrogantly dismissive. Go.

[Whitney]

guys we need to stop banning people.

Hardly anyone gets banned here...?